Question I ask myself

BobRyan

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Good evening,

I am a baby Christian and since my family is Atheist and I do not feel comfortable discussing this with my friends, I struggle to answer my most burning question.
In my heart I feel this religion is right, I know it. I got my first Bible a few years ago and I am in my early 20's. But there is this burning question I have. And because of it my faith is not that strong.
Welcome to the discussion area of the board -- and welcome to Christianity -
May you be blessed.
So the question is:
I had this thought. God is mercy, God is powerful and God is all-knowing, right? And we all agree on the fact that there is evil on this Earth. God is all-knowing, He must know that, we know that. God created Earth, He is powerful. So He can make the evil go away, He has all the power. But there is evil still, so He did not make it go away.
As you say -- it is true.

1. God is all powerful and knows everything.
2. God is Love and mercy

So then "He KNEW" that if He allowed Lucifer to sin, and 1/3 of the Angels in heaven to fall, and Adam and Eve to fall, and then to live on and have children ---- THEN HE -- would have to suffer and die on the cross for the sins of every human in all of time - to offer mankind the gospel of salvation.

1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

This tells us
1. God has a LOT of skin in this game.
2. He did not allow Lucifer to fall and Adam to fall -- on a mere whim
3. Sin in this world does not continue because God is not noticing or uncarhing - SINCE He experiences the fact that EVERY sin committed is one He would then pay for on the cross

What you are seeing is the 3rd attribute of God
-- God values FREE WILL --

God guides by providing compelling evidence for right vs wrong - not by the use of arbitrary force. He is not of the sort "cross me and I will kill you" - but Satan is of that very sort.

So then God offers salvation and forgiveness to "whosoever will".

That brings me to my third point that God is mercy.
I believe if any of us had the power to make all the hurting and suffering of children, women, animals, any being go away, we would. We would make the people that strayed from the path towards evil pure again, so that they do not hurt anybody.
So why didn't God?
God has eternity to take into consideration. For all eternity after the lake of fire event in Rev 20 (still in the future for us) - there will be no rebellion -- not one person in all of the universe will ever sin again. How does God insure such an outcome in a universe that is based on Love and free will -- by providing compelling evidence that sin does not work.

Very good topic.
 
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Aaron112

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The funny thing is the answer is always the same. IF God did not allow THEN we would be the same as the animals.
Animals are so much more obedient and trusting God than people are ....... would that people could learn the truth !
 
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Aaron112

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The unpardonable sin is to not allow God to save you. To quench or grieve the Holy Spirit.
As the song says: To trust and obey is the only way.
People have a form of Godliness but deny the power there of.
Is it , isn't it, unpardonable when those with the form of Godliness (church?) lead others into the pit ?
 
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Aaron112

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by providing compelling evidence that sin does not work.
FAITH is the evidence for now, for eternity?

No evidence matters when someone sees Jesus. No compelling nor any evidence is needed other than faith, right?
 
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T.i.m.o.t.h.y.

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Is it evil in the animals? They say the animals are a reflection of us and they long for redemption.
Romans 8:19
For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
On some level you would be right about the animals. We don't really know if animals actually long for redemption.

There is the scripture that states that the lions, wolves, etc dangerous carnivores will one day not be dangerous, a child will play around them like they do domestic dogs and not be harmed.

That goes for plants too. Poisonous plants will one day no longer be poisonous.

All creation would also include the weather such as damaging winds, tornadoes and hurricanes, tsunamis, lightening, hail, and the volcano activity, earthquake activity, dirt slides, mud slides, snow slides.. all things that are potentially dangerous or deadly to people will one day no longer be of harm to anyone. I don't know if that includes the dangers that people put themselves into by climbing very high mountains and risk their death.
 
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Diamond7

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I don't know if that includes the dangers that people put themselves into by climbing very high mountains and risk their death.
To risk death is not a choice for life. My first son lived a high risk lifestyle. He only made it to the age of 40. I think he has the peter pan syndrome where he did not want to grow up and aged as much as he was wanting to.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Good evening,

I am a baby Christian and since my family is Atheist and I do not feel comfortable discussing this with my friends, I struggle to answer my most burning question.
In my heart I feel this religion is right, I know it. I got my first Bible a few years ago and I am in my early 20's. But there is this burning question I have. And because of it my faith is not that strong.
I hope I will not offense anybody with it, it is truly a topic that I want to have an answer for and I am too scared to ask in person in fear of bad reaction.

So the question is:
I had this thought. God is mercy, God is powerful and God is all-knowing, right? And we all agree on the fact that there is evil on this Earth. God is all-knowing, He must know that, we know that. God created Earth, He is powerful. So He can make the evil go away, He has all the power. But there is evil still, so He did not make it go away. That brings me to my third point that God is mercy.
I believe if any of us had the power to make all the hurting and suffering of children, women, animals, any being go away, we would. We would make the people that strayed from the path towards evil pure again, so that they do not hurt anybody.
So why didn't God? I know we sinned, but then is it not some sort of holding onto the past? Because we all agree He has the power to make evil go away.
But if He is mercy and would want that for us and yet still evil is here, it means He does not have all the power.
So one of the three has to be false, right?

I am so sorry if I made anybody uncomfortable, I truly seek answer to this. I want to be proved wrong. This is the thing that makes me question everything and I struggle with it a lot. I am too scared to ask anybody. I want this obstacle gone, it has followed me for far too long. I hope in understanding, I am again sorry for speaking such words.
He can't make evil go away because we keep producing it. He gave us free will. What He did do is give us a way towards righteousness. Through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Blessings
 
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T.i.m.o.t.h.y.

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To risk death is not a choice for life. My first son lived a high risk lifestyle. He only made it to the age of 40. I think he has the peter pan syndrome where he did not want to grow up and aged as much as he was wanting to.
If you're saying what I think that you're saying, I offer my prayers for your loss.
 
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Diamond7

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Who remembers where it is written that the Creator is grieved for the loss of life - even the loss of life of a wicked person ?
I think the word is long suffering 2 Peter 3 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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He gives us choice. LOTS and lots of choices. I do not know why people call that free will.
The very definition of " free will" is the idea that humans have the ability to make their own choices and control their own destinies.
 
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Hawkins

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I am so sorry if I made anybody uncomfortable, I truly seek answer to this. I want to be proved wrong. This is the thing that makes me question everything and I struggle with it a lot. I am too scared to ask anybody. I want this obstacle gone, it has followed me for far too long. I hope in understanding, I am again sorry for speaking such words.

A close analogy is that, if you are a mayor of city and know for sure the crime of a criminal, what would you do? You kill him just because you are powerful? Justice is when you can hand over the criminal to a fair trial. The criminal will be removed by Law, that's what justice is.

Similarly, planet earth is for all evil to show up and for God to remove evil once and for all via the process of Law. We call this the Final Judgment. More importantly, you may have assumed wrong, God's goal is not for the building of Earth. He's effort is for the building of an eternity we call Heaven.

God sets up Law to eradicate evil once and for all justly through the process of Judgment, to make sure that a Heaven can be built without the presence of evil.
 
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T.i.m.o.t.h.y.

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I tend to rejoice when people are finished with this life and they go onto their reward.
I went to visit my in laws yesterday. My m-i-l has had a heart condition (artificial heart) for most of her life and now she's on medication that increases her health issues rather than eases them. She's weak and thin, white haired and no longer able to get her hair permed. She uses a wheel chair and hospice nurse to get around. Her d-i-l makes meals and sends them over every week. Her son comes by to bring the meals and her daughter also comes by often.

I was relieved to use the wooden walkway (built for the wheelchair) instead of taking those high built steps that I knew would put me out for the rest of day if I had to use them.

She looked as though she either had gotten tired with reading two mother's day cards or she couldn't read the print, even though she had a third one yet to read. Her favorite was an unfolding garden scene.. her house has gardening plants all around it. My s-i-l said that it would be placed on the table so my m-i-l can look at it as she eats her meals. My son had picked it out for her. He visits my in laws more than I do since I have some health issues myself.

She barely talked while we were there but that's understandable. Everyone else sees to her needs now when previously she was always the one to see to the needs of family members on family occasions.
My f-i-l has also developed some health issues so neither of them could bear having company for long, but that's okay because I couldn't of sat in their new couch for much longer anyway. There are days when I walk about the same way as Tim Conway's very old man character scuttles.. shuffles along with very short steps. I laugh at myself as much as viewers laughed at seeing him do that comedy routine.

Well, after fifteen minutes of hearing the latest news about this and that, at my in laws, then it was quick good-byes, promises to return again sometime, and out the door we went. I was glad to get back in my comfortable chair.
 
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Diamond7

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Her favorite was an unfolding garden scene.
I would imagine that we can not even comprehend how beautiful the plants will be in Heaven. Even though I think Heaven is a planet like the Earth. What I look forward to are the rocks. Esp the ones on the bottom of the river of life. Everything in Heaven will be bright and cheerful and there will be no sickness, disease or suffering. Something to look forward to for sure.
 
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T.i.m.o.t.h.y.

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I would imagine that we can not even comprehend how beautiful the plants will be in Heaven. Even though I think Heaven is a planet like the Earth. What I look forward to are the rocks. Esp the ones on the bottom of the river of life. Everything in Heaven will be bright and cheerful and there will be no sickness, disease or suffering. Something to look forward to for sure.
I once had a geod of white crystal the size and looked on the outside like a muss melon.. I was exited to think that I had a 'diamond in the rough' crystal ball.
I tried to break it open but I didn't have the right tools. All that I got from hitting it was a few thin slivers and dust that indicated it was white inside. When you talk of there being rocks in heaven on the bottom of the river of life.. I'd like to think that the rocks could be geods.. open and sparkling in the water.
 
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nalex1066

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First I would like to say this: The question "Why is God silent?" is wrong. The question sounds as if there was a courtroom: Ms. Spencer or pastor Busch is sitting on the judge's chair. And God sits in the dock. And then we say, "Accused God, how can you allow all of this? Why are you silent?” I want to tell you in all clarity: There is no such thing as a God who lets us sit on the judge's chair and who sits in the dock!
I remember a situation when I was a very young pastor. I had just come to Essen at the age of 27 when a big miners' strike broke out. One day I come across a large square. A man stands on an empty box and talks to the people around him. He speaks of hungry children, starvation wages and unemployment. Suddenly he sees me, recognizes me and roars: "Ha, there is the parson! Come here!” Well, I usually accept a friendly invitation. So I go to this group. The men make space for me so that I can get to the speaker. Maybe a hundred pitmen are around me. I was feeling a little strange. I was not prepared for this kind of situations at university. And then he starts: "Listen, parson! If there is a God - which I don't know but there can be one - then when I am dead I want to stand in front of him and say to him" - and then he shouted - "Why did you allow people to be cut into pieces on the battlefields?! Why did you allow children to starve and others to throw away the food because they had too much?! Why did you allow people to suffer miserably from cancer?! Why? Why?" And then I want to say to him: "You, God, step down! Away with you! Get out!”” This the man screamed. I also shouted: “That's right! Away with this God! Away with this God!” Suddenly it is very quiet. The speaker looks surprised and says: "Wait a minute! You are a pastor! You mustn't shout: "Get rid of this God!"” I replied: "Listen! The God whom you step before, who you can open your mouth to, who can be held accountable in such a way that you stand before him as a judge and he is your accused – such a God only exists in your imagination. I can only say to that: "Away with this God!" Away with this silly God, made by ourselves, whom we can accuse, push aside or retrieve as required! There is no such God! But I want to tell you something: There is another, real God. You will stand before him as the accused and you will not be able to open your mouth at all, because he will ask you: "Why did you not honor me? Why did you not call me? Why did you live in impurity? Why did you lie? Why did you hate? Why did you fight? Why did you...?” That’s what he will ask you. And then the word will get stuck in your throat! There is no God to whom we could say: "Away with you!" But there is a holy, living, real God who could say to us: “Away with you!""
And I would also like to tell you this: If you hear people today who reproach God: “How can God allow all this? Why is God silent?” Then tell them: “That would be a silly, foolish God we could accuse! There is only one holy God who accuses us. You and me!” Did you keep God's commandments? How do you think about that? God takes his commandments seriously. We are the accused, not God!
That is the first thing I had to say very clearly: the whole question is fundamentally wrong.
And now the second:

The silence of God is his judgment.
“Why is God silent?” You see, yes, God is often silent. And God's silence is the most terrible judgment on us!
I am convinced that there is a hell. But it is certainly not as it is shown in many pictures, that the devil roasts the souls or similar silly stuff. But I think it will be hell that God has nothing to say to people anymore. You can call him there, you can pray, you can scream - he won't answer you anymore! The Russian poet Dostoevsky once said: "Hell is the place where God no longer looks" - and where we finally got rid of him, where we really are abandoned by God. Yes, God's silence is his judgment. And you see: This is where hell starts here on earth already, that God is silent.
I would like to tell you a story from the Bible: There were two cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, highly cultivated cities with a refined civilization. God has not been denied. There were probably a couple of priests, poor guys. But one just didn't take God seriously. Perhaps the Lord was still bothered at weddings and funerals, but otherwise no one cared about him. All of his commandments were trampled under foot. A pious man named Lot lived in Sodom. From time to time he said: “You can't treat God like that! Do not be deceived, God cannot be mocked! Whatever man sows, he will reap!" "Oh”, the people replied, "don't be kidding! You're not a pastor! Stop talking such nonsense!" And then one day at dawn - God had previously brought Lot out of the city - that God let fire and sulfur rain from heaven onto the cities. We experienced what it was like in the bomb war. But God can do that without planes. I can imagine how people fell out of bed and roared: "Into the basement!" You run into the basement. And then it gets scorching hot in the basement - like in the oven. You can't take it anymore. New slogan: "We have to get out!" And then you sally out. But outside it’s raining fire and sulfur everywhere. Perplexed people: they can't get out, and they almost suffocate in the cellars. That's what the Bible says. And then I imagined - the Bible does not describe this - that such a group of people is together: a sophisticated young woman - until now she had let the dear God be a good man; an elderly gentleman - who could recognize every brand of red wine by the taste, he had nothing against God, but he was completely indifferent to him. There were guys like that in a basement: nice people, tidy people, good citizens, good taxpayers. Everyone had their dark secrets - like everyone else today. It's getting hotter in the basement. They want to go out, but they can't, because destruction is ravaging all around. And then horror seizes them. The fat man suddenly says: "Guys, Lot was right: God really lives!" And the fashionable young woman says: "Then only one thing helps: you should pray now! Who can pray?” And then the hands rise that had never risen before. Suddenly it goes: "Lord, have mercy! We have sinned! We despised you! But stop it! You are God, you are gracious! Lord, have mercy!” And it remains quiet! Only the howling and crackling of the fire can be heard. The arms drop, the spread hands clench into fists; "God, why are you silent?!" And it stays silent! You only hear the roar of fire. You can now pray or curse - God no longer answers!
There is a limit that a person or a city or people can cross, a limit of indifference to the living God. From then on, God no longer hears or answers. Then you can pray or swear - he doesn't answer anymore. Do you understand that this silence about Sodom was God's most horrific judgment? God had nothing to say to them anymore! And when I look at our fatherland in its complete indifference to God's truth, God's commandments and God's salvation, I am often gripped by horror. Perhaps you will find yourself praying or cursing - and God has nothing to say anymore.
The Bible once said of God: "I called you - and you did not answer." Why are you silent when God calls you?
So: The silence of God is the most terrible judgment of God!

The third thing I want to say is this:

The far distance prevents hearing
If we feel that God is silent, then we may be too far away from him.
The other day a young man came to me and said: “Pastor Busch, you make me nervous! You talk about God all the time. I run into you - and you start again from God. I don't hear God, I don't see God. Where is he talking? I don't hear anything!” I replied, “Young man, do you know the story of the prodigal son? It’s a story that Jesus told himself. There was a wealthy landowner who had two sons. One was a little frivolous. It was too tight at home for him, too grumpy. It just didn't suit him. One day he explains to his father: "Dude, give me my inheritance, pay me off now, I want to go out into the world!" The father gives him that and the son moves out into the big wide world. Once it was said of him: “He squandered his wealth in wild living.” You can imagine it: you can get rid of your money in big cities wonderfully. And just then there is a famine and unemployment. He ends up as a swineherd with the pigs. In Israel the pigs were considered unclean. For an Israelite, the worst that could happen to him was to become a swineherd. But because he was starving he was glad to be able to steal a bit from the pigs' troughs and eat. There he could no longer hear his father's voice. He was just too far away from him. The prodigal son could say: “I don't hear the father's voice.” Sure! Of course he didn't hear it! ”- Allow me to insert here and make up the story as it is not in the Bible. There the runaway sits with his pigs. He's hungry. And then he accuses his father: “How can he allow me to feel so dirty!” This is how the world of today seems to me: it has forsaken God, misery rushes over it – and it screams: “How can God allow all of this?! Why is God silent?! ”- But Jesus tells the story of the prodigal son differently: there is an hour in his life when he comes back to himself: “I am insane! My father got plenty of bread - and I starve here. I want to get up and go to my father and say to him: "Father, I have sinned."" And he gets up and turns back! His father sees him in the distance and runs towards him. But the prodigal son says to him: “Father, I have sinned!” The father takes him in his arms and shouts: “Bring the best dress and put a finger ring on his hand and shoes on his feet!” All of a sudden he hears the father's voice. If you can't hear the voice of God, you are too far away! You have to turn back, you know that very well!”
People can be very far away from God - even to the pigs, figuratively speaking. I always knew that as a lieutenant in World War I during the time of greatest godlessness and thought: “I should actually turn back!” And I have never met anyone who did not really know: “I should actually turn back!” The most self-righteous woman explains: “I'm fine!” But if I talk to her for a while she says: “Yes, I should actually turn back! There is a lot of guilt in my life. Basically my heart is completely petrified."

Can you still listen? Am I boring? If it's boring, it's me and not the gospel. Pastors can make the gospel boring, they can do that! But then you should read the Bible without us. The gospel is breathtaking - believe me! What I want to tell you now is the most important thing: If you feel that God is silent, then you have to hear God's final word! So - now I am quoting a sentence from the Bible that is so long that I actually have to say it twice. It is in the first chapter of the letter to the Hebrews: "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son." Do you know who the Son of God is? This is Jesus!
Jesus! I'm back to the topic. My heart beats faster when I can talk about Jesus. This Jesus is - as he is once called - the incarnate Word of God: “The word became flesh and lived among us.” Do you understand: When we say a word, it is already gone - like a breath. God made a word flesh - in Jesus. Jesus is God's final word! Do you know the expression: "my final word"? Suppose I wanted to sell you a cow. Don't worry, I won't do it! I have no idea about selling cows. But suppose I wanted to sell you a cow. What is a cow worth? I dont know. Let's say: $1,000. You say: “I would give $300 for it. Nothing more!” “But I should actually get $1200 for it!” I explain. Then you bid $400. And then we negotiate until I explain: “So: $800 is my final word!” And then nothing more comes after that. Jesus is God's final word! And if you don't accept it, then God has nothing more to say to you. Do you understand? When people complain, “God doesn't talk! Why is God silent? ", then I answer: "God has nothing more to say to you if you do not want to accept his final word!" You have to accept Jesus! You may accept Jesus! There is no other way! I often meet people who say to me, “I also believe in God. But Jesus?” Listen: Jesus is the incarnate, final word of God to us! I have to explain to you what that means. And for that I have to tell you a little bit about Jesus. There is nothing I’d rather do!

There is a crowd around Jesus. And he speaks. Suddenly there is a disturbance in the back. People start talking and walking. Jesus interrupts his speech: “What is the matter?” Something terrible was going on: a leper had come. Do you know what leprosy is? A man rots alive. It's horrific: the pus that eats away your ears, nose and lips. And this leprosy is so contagious that it can even catch your breath. Lepers therefore had to live in the desert. They weren't allowed to come near people. And then such a leper comes into the crowd! He has heard of Jesus and is driven by a great desire: “I want to see the Savior!” So he comes. And the man gets space! Everyone just draws back. And then they yell: “Go away, you! Go away!” They grab stones and threaten him. But he cannot be stopped. I can so well imagine how a path forms through the middle of the crowd, cleared by horrified people. And through the alley that has emerged he goes forward - until he stands in front of Jesus.
No, he does not stand before Jesus, he sinks in the dust before him and weeps all his misery to the Savior: “My life is screwed up, ruined! Jesus, if you want you can clean me up. Help me!” Ah, you know: the destroyed image of man and the Savior, the Son of God, must come together! It has to be like this: our misery has to come before Jesus! Oh, I wish you to throw your bit of "religion" overboard and bring your misery to Jesus. And there the leper lies in front of Jesus: “If you want, you can cleanse me!” And now something happens that I find infinitely beautiful. I could imagine Jesus taking a step back from this horribly destroyed image of a man and saying: “Yes, good. Stand up! Be purified!” But no, he doesn't. Jesus takes a step forward and puts his hands on the sick head! The people shout in horror: “You don't touch a leper!” The Bible says: “And Jesus touched him.” No dirt is too disgusting for the Savior! No misery is too great for him! He puts his hand on it! If I were the other Wilhelm Busch, the painter, that's what I wanted to paint: the hands of Jesus on the ruined, half-decayed face of the leper. This is Jesus, the miracle of the times! And if a person is here now who no one wants to know anything about, then Jesus lays his hand on him and says: "I have redeemed you, you shall be mine!" If there is now someone who is tormented by the fact that he is a leper full of filth and sin, then Jesus lays his hand on him and says: "Be cleansed!" In Jesus all of God's love for us comes into our misery, into our sin, into our filth, into our sickness! Jesus is the incarnate Word of God! And then people say: “Why is God silent?” Didn't God speak clearly and gloriously enough? Isn't that spoken by God?!
And one day this Jesus will be placed on a cross. They drive nails through his hands and feet. Then the cross is raised. A raging crowd around the cross. Roman soldiers push the people back. Come on, we want to join this crowd, we want to be under the cross, too! Look at him, the man of Golgotha! The "head full of blood and wounds, full of pain and full of scorn", the "head tied in mockery with a crown of thorns"! Look at him! Ask him: “Why are you hanging there?” And he will answer you: “Because you are to blame before God. Either you pay it in hell or I pay it for you here. One has to pay! I want to do it for you. Now believe in me!"


- pastor Wilhelm Busch
If God is sitting back to allow us to wallow in our own muck
, worldly topical, don’t you think Us & UK included
 
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