Super Jesus vs just Jesus

[Dennis Thompson]

I was in it for 5 years. Its interesting if you take a real close look. As one praying over someone, you are taught what to do and what to say. In most cases you teach the person what will probably happen. Its called priming of a situation.

The Holy Spirit comes into a person at Salvation. No demon can reside in a born again believer. Jesus stated clearly he would never neave us or forsake us. God resides in us as believers. So no, deliverance is phony. The huige huge problem in the Charismatic world is they place experience above the word. Where in the word, after Jesus gives atonement and Christianity begins do you find a born again believer having demons cast out? No where. You will find demons coming out when people got saved, but that is it.

We are really foolish as people. been there, done that. The word says satan has no authority over the believer. The stupid decisions I have made in life are my own stupid decisions and absolutely not the devil making me do it.

The cross changed everything and the quicker we as people realize it, the better.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Interesting observation.

What do we get from this? That deliverance ministry for Christians is not needed? (in which case how do we explain the manifestations and the improved lived of Christians who go through this ministry?)

or is it that we don't do the conversion thing right? Are the demons supposed to leave at conversion?

Mike

Actually we don't do the preaching right or when we do do it right the naysayers say we do it wrong. Yes Jesus took every curse and every sickness as well as every sin apon himself . If we receive a Jesus who only took sin because that is all we heard then we are likely to be sick and demonised well into our Christian life (until we find somebody who actually knows what they are talking about and will help the poor souls) ]

 

[Yahu]

Actually we don't do the preaching right or when we do do it right the naysayers say we do it wrong. Yes Jesus took every curse and every sickness as well as every sin apon himself . If we receive a Jesus who only took sin because that is all we heard then we are likely to be sick and demonised well into our Christian life (until we find somebody who actually knows what they are talking about and will help the poor souls) ]

Nonsense. I needed deliverance from things sent against me by witchcraft AFTER I was saved. I KNEW my spiritual authority but that did not stop the witchcraft from coming against me and required active spiritual warfare to get rid of it.

 

[weariedsoul]

I am never free from satans attacks. Yet i glory in the battle.


2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[weariedsoul]

The enemy comes against me with flaming arrows of doubt and anxiety, fear and other things, i cry to God when it gets too tough for me, He is my shield. Spiritual warfare is glorious once we learn to fight, once the Lord trains us. It takes faith. Faith is like Spiritual boot camp, we get tested, drilled and grow stronger.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Nonsense. I needed deliverance from things sent against me by witchcraft AFTER I was saved. I KNEW my spiritual authority but that did not stop the witchcraft from coming against me and required active spiritual warfare to get rid of it.

It sounds like your armour had holes in it

 

[Yahu]

It sounds like your armor had holes in it

Yes I lost my peace when I gave into anger when my wife was raped and pregnant from it. The coven had drugged her to do so.

In that anger, my armor was down. Anger opens the door. It let in a root of bitterness. That gave the enemy grounds to land their curses. Sin opens the door even after you are saved. It carries consequences in this life. Faith isn't enough to protect you.

It took me over 17 years to get rid of the effects.

Faith as a shield won't help when you loose your peace. You can also have gaps in your breast plate of righteousness. You can doubt your salvation and take head wounds. If your sword isn't sharp, you can't fight off the attacks.

Faith can be a big shield but it isn't the only thing that needs to be maintained. It is only a single part of your defenses.

 

[TasManOfGod]

.

 

[weariedsoul]

Faith helps me a lot when i fail, faith in Him and His goodness sustains me. Sure i wont settle for failure yet we all do fail at times and thats why we are taught to forgive 70 times 7.

 

[MikeBigg]

I was in it for 5 years. Its interesting if you take a real close look. As one praying over someone, you are taught what to do and what to say. In most cases you teach the person what will probably happen. Its called priming of a situation.

Well, when I first encountered deliverance about 30 years ago there was no priming of a situation - and no training. A rapid learning experience.

Since then I have been involved in deliverance with many Christians. I don't prime them, in fact I usually wait for manifestations to start before even raising the topic.

What you have raised is interesting, but, with respect, I believe you have come to the wrong conclusion.

Kind regards,

Mike

 

[Yahu]

I dont disagree. However it troubles me when I see you attacking WoF when they are the source of good teaching on these matters -or at least that is what I have found them to be.

Well WoF puts too much emphasis on faith only IMO while disregarding the other defenses. Also the WoF position is that all curses are done away with and can't touch us. I KNOW that is non-sense. I have experienced curses sent via witchcraft. Being a Christian didn't protect me when I had opened the door with anger. It didn't matter how much faith I had, I still had to actively resist.

The coven was actively trying to get me to fall into sin so their better curses would work on me. Until I fell into error, I was protected. Once I did fall into error, they were able to get some of their curses to land. They were trying very hard to get me to violate a law of Yah that carried a death penalty so they could land their death curses.

I don't have a problem with the WoF stand on spiritual warfare.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Well WoF puts too much emphasis on faith only IMO while disregarding the other defenses. Also the WoF position is that all curses are done away with and can't touch us. I KNOW that is non-sense. I have experienced curses sent via witchcraft. Being a Christian didn't protect me when I had opened the door with anger. It didn't matter how much faith I had, I still had to actively resist.

The coven was actively trying to get me to fall into sin so their better curses would work on me. Until I fell into error, I was protected. Once I did fall into error, they were able to get some of their curses to land. They were trying very hard to get me to violate a law of Yah that carried a death penalty so they could land their death curses.

I don't have a problem with the WoF stand on spiritual warfare.

Whatever your experiences were do not contridict WoF teaching. In fact if you had of heard what Wof teaches in relation to the armour of God you would not have been afflicted.

 

[hopeinGod]

More than just doctrinal challenges have caused Spirit-filled believers from embracing the Charismatic experience. The list is very long and would include the following:

1. Extremism, zeal without knowledge, toxic faith
2. Doctrinal errors such as WOF, sheep/sherpherding, prosperity gospels, etc.
3. Unfulfilled attempts to receive certain promises that were supposed to manifest through one's continued profession/confession
4. Televangelists that have given in to adultery, filthy lucre, and have built mega-fortunes through their false promises and error
5. A lack of answers surrounding mental health issues
6. Great speculation and self-promotion, rather than true revelation, given through prophecies and words of knowledge
7. Burnout from the attendance of so many meetings, over and over again, without any benefit to them
8. The lack of sound, balanced teaching from both the old and new testaments. Instead, the focus should be on principles that allow for the whole counsel of God, not just preferred dogmas

Straighten these things out and the movement may regain some of its honor. Until then, burnouts will continue to resort to safer havens.