crossover with wof

[jiminpa]

While I agree that Hagin Sr did not go to the metaphysical as much as Kenyon, I would disagree that he entirely avoided it. A friend gave me a Kenyon tape and I was very surprised to find him saying to have faith in faith. I think that is esentially the common error of WOF, to have faith in faith.

Exactly. What soured me to Hagin is doctrine that God can't rebuke demons.

But no, I do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is good stuff in WoF. I don't have time to elaborate right now though.

 

[jiminpa]

Kenyon is related to New Thought- a stream from which flows Christian Science and Unity. It is NOT Christian or biblical at its root/heart/ foundation but has used Christian words to describe something else. I believe it is a stream that came forth during a real move of the Holy Spirit to counterfeit, pervert, and in some cases, pre-empt the real deal.

Instead of starting with WOF ideas/theology...lets start with the Word of God in which the focus is not - what I get- but knowing God more, Him being glorified, HIS will being done... The Lord's prayer is so far away in tone and substance from many of the WOF prayers....

I do believe that healing is for today and in the present gifts and ministry of the Holy Spirit as being a VITAL part of our walk. But what is the purpose of these gifts and ministry? To edify...to build up ourselves and one another.

The WOF - healing focus really brings one into a SELF or PROBLEM centered focus...

When I was not being healed of things, I'd wonder if I was saved. When others were healed...or experienced answered prayer- I'd feel JEALOUS. (!!) Like a little kid- why them Lord and not me? ! Very self centered....

Researching the roots/history of New Thought/WOF was helpful to me and I recommened it along with Christianity in Crisis by Hank Hannegraff. I'm hoping he is not "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" but so far it seems pretty solid.

Google "ex word of faith" "ex word of faith preacher' ....There are many spiritually, physically and emotionally hurt people in this movement- and worse, people who have lost faith in the real Jesus.

But to your question...what IS biblical?

Our words are important...because it affects other people. We can encourage them or destroy them with criticism. This is love...Versus a source of spiritual power.

It's about the heart. Simon the magician wanted the power of the Holy Spirit for the wrong reasons... Speaking affirmations and such... I believe that this is New Age....I really don't see this idea conveyed consistently through the NT. I personally believe it's a form of witchcraft. It's one thing to say something because you know and believe it...from the heart. It's quite another to simply confess dozens of statements....even good and biblical things IF YOU DON'T REALLY BELIEVE OR KNOW IT...in order to MAKE IT HAPPEN THROUGH YOUR SPEECH.

You lost me as soon as referenced that crook Hanagraaf, or however he spells it. He is a liar, and a cheat, and he makes a great deal of ill-gotten wealth slandering God's people. If you posses any of his books, or any book he recommends, or any book he has ever read, I recommend you repent and have a public book burning ceremony. Don't worry, I am pretty certain he has never actually opened a Bible for himself. He completely relies on others to tell him what's in that.

 

[GreatistheLord]

this is getting sidetracked into personal issues. really, i want to separate out the baby and the bathwater, and see how much in common there is. I dont think alot of the weird theology is very common, ive never heard people talk about faith in faith, or whatever weird additions people writing books have come up with.

Positive confession - is it a false doctrine? i dont think so, we are saved through our confession, but it has to first come from the heart and be inspired by the Holy Spirit, and I dont think any WOF teachers would disagree. Can we pray one thing, and then talk the opposite afterwards without it being affected? We cant be double-minded, James makes it clear that God's will is that we *all* receive wisdom, and then he tells us that our own words and doubt can prevent it from coming to pass.

"But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.6But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,8being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways." Jas 1:5

This, for me, is a proof text that God's will can be defeated by our unbelief, and that His will for all is to bless, to be gracious, and to give. His higher goal is protect the sanctity of His Word, and the maturity of our soul - by *not* providing when we do not respect Scripture and its authority.

"Faith begins where the will of God is known" FF Bosworth. I like this quote.

 

[CGL1023]

Without getting into a polarised debate, are there any crossover principles from Wof that are relevant ie

Confession of scripture
Speaking to the mountain instead of asking God, in healing etc
Faith being necessary in prayer

Or not?

I display a Non-demoninational logo but lean toward general Wof principles. I don't want to be saddled with the baggage that comes with the Wof label. I dismiss the ideas and practices that lead to a name-it-and-claim-it mentality.

I practice confession mixed with faith, 'you shall have whatsoever you say', mixed with faith, 'calling things that are not as though they are' mixed with faith. I understand the New Covenant to mean, in part, that at the cross, God has already provided every empowerment we would ever need, as born again believers. Furthermore He wants us to give us what we desire. As sons of God, we are led by the Spirit and we will not generally ask amiss. That means that receiving from God is easy, if we do things His way.

 

[Gospel Guy]

if you scatter seeds of sound doctrine, water them faithfully, they will reap soundness, stability, and a strong foundation in the faith.

if you scatter seeds of sound doctrine, water them faithfully, they will reap soundness, stability, and a strong foundation in the faith.

Yeah, some 30 fold, some 60 fold, and some a 100 fold... just like Jesus said!

Most WOF teachers use scripture correctly in most cases... they just seek personal gain and wealth so they can flaunt it on TV, calling it their money, instead of putting all that money in the Gospel according to Deuteronomy 8:18

 

[hopeinGod]

Even books and CDs are they unscripturally, including seminaries of course, selling, for we are to both freely give and receive.

 

[Optimus Fortis]

I am asking about Wof principles, not about extreme caricatures of it.

Does your church, nominally non-wof, still practise wof teachings ?

i.e. positive confession, speaking to the mountain, healing always being God's will and never sent by the devil, etc

My first experience of a church where the gifts of the Holy Spirit were welcomed was in the Elim Pentecostal denomination.

*It practised positive confession (Death and life is in the power of the tongue);

*Speak to the mountain (Jesus has conquered death and has delegated his sovereign authority and the power in his name to those in covenant with Him);

*Healing is always God's will (by His stripes we WERE healed).


I didn't know there were differences between Pentecostal/ Charismatic and WoF until I found these forums!

Looking back, there were people in the Pentecostal church who'd pray all night for God to send "revival". I guess someone who is WoF would see this as a prayer of unbelief as it is God's will that everyone is saved and that He has already sent the Holy Spirit and given us everything we need to get the job done.

 

[woodpecker]

WOF is a man made title/theology.

I am a Charismatic believer, meaning God is the same today as in the scripture of old.

Gods will be done, in faith I ask. Nothing more added or taken. All gifts through the Holy Spirit today as old.

You may not receive because of lack of faith, or because God will answer your pray as He sees best.

The theology that you are "healed by His stripes" is not interpreted correctly by the WOF movement. We are healed spiritually, not always physically. We can see this in Paul, and Timothy.

TV Charismatics are wolves in sheeps clothing, and teach greed and worldly happiness.