WHAT DOES APOSTASIA ( FALLING AWAY ) IN 2 THESS 2:3 ?

[Dan Perez]

2 Thess 2:3 reads , Let no man deceive you by any means , for ( that day shall not come ) except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST , and that man of sin be revealed , the son of perdition .

#1 Some say that when believers , straighten out , Christ will come for us .

#2 The Greek word APOSTASIA is translated ,, by Falling Away , by KJV and the NKJV .

#3 The NIV and the CSB translate APOSTASIA , by APOSTASY .

#4 The RSV and the NET translate APOSTASIA , by REBELLION .

What say you ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

2 Thess 2:3 reads , Let no man deceive you by any means , for ( that day shall not come ) except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST , and that man of sin be revealed , the son of perdition .

#1 Some say that when believers , straighten out , Christ will come for us .

#2 The Greek word APOSTASIA is translated ,, by Falling Away , by KJV and the NKJV .

#3 The NIV and the CSB translate APOSTASIA , by APOSTASY .

#4 The RSV and the NET translate APOSTASIA , by REBELLION .

What say you ?

dan p

Apostasia means apostasy, rebellion, but here Paul is speaking of active rebellion, the supreme opposition of evil to the things of God led by the man of lawlessness (anti-Christ).

 

[sandman]

Since I included my answer in part One…. I will just link to that #7 apostasia

Edited: I decided to add a little more to this.

______________________________________________________________________________________________
Taking a look at apostasia in the context.

The Greek actually reads hē apostasia…. “Hē” is the article “the” and should read the falling away or more accurately as we can see from Gods Word “the departure” although the Greek does not need the article to make the noun definite as in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article.

The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun (such as “this” or “that”)…. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object.

Whenever the Greek uses the article, it points out individual identity…. it marks a specific object of thought. The Greeks use the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses,…. or even with whole sentences…. When the article Hē appears in the Greek it always signals some special significance.


But where/what is the designated object that the article is drawing our attention to.

If we go with the conventional thought The Falling Away ….where is that???

If you go with what I believe the Word dictates The Departure …that we can easily see from 2Th 2:1 The Greek article points here to a previous context namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus into the air and the gathering together of the Saints unto Him.

If you remove the verse numbers and read these verse together it will help to illuminate this.

Aramaic Peshitta

2 Thes _1-3

NOW we beseech you, my brethren, concerning the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ, and concerning our gathering together with him. That you let not your minds be hastily excited or troubled, neither by word, nor by prophecy of the spirit, nor by an epistle, supposedly from us, stating that the day of the LORD is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for unless it is preceded by the departure, and the man of sin be revealed as the son of perdition.
4-6
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is reverenced; so that even in the temple of God, he sits as a god, and shows himself, as though he were a god. Do you not remember, that when I was with you, I told you these things? And now you know what has prevented him from being revealed in his time.

 

[Dan Perez]

Since I included my answer in part One…. I will just link to that #7 apostasia

Edited: I decided to add a little more to this.

______________________________________________________________________________________________
Taking a look at apostasia in the context.

The Greek actually reads hē apostasia…. “Hē” is the article “the” and should read the falling away or more accurately as we can see from Gods Word “the departure” although the Greek does not need the article to make the noun definite as in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article.

The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun (such as “this” or “that”)…. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object.

Whenever the Greek uses the article, it points out individual identity…. it marks a specific object of thought. The Greeks use the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses,…. or even with whole sentences…. When the article Hē appears in the Greek it always signals some special significance.


But where/what is the designated object that the article is drawing our attention to.

If we go with the conventional thought The Falling Away ….where is that???

If you go with what I believe the Word dictates The Departure …that we can easily see from 2Th 2:1 The Greek article points here to a previous context namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus into the air and the gathering together of the Saints unto Him.

If you remove the verse numbers and read these verse together it will help to illuminate this.

Aramaic Peshitta

2 Thes _1-3

NOW we beseech you, my brethren, concerning the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ, and concerning our gathering together with him. That you let not your minds be hastily excited or troubled, neither by word, nor by prophecy of the spirit, nor by an epistle, supposedly from us, stating that the day of the LORD is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for unless it is preceded by the departure, and the man of sin be revealed as the son of perdition.
4-6
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is reverenced; so that even in the temple of God, he sits as a god, and shows himself, as though he were a god. Do you not remember, that when I was with you, I told you these things? And now you know what has prevented him from being revealed in his time.

I prefer the word DEPARTURE .

dan p

 

[Clare73]

Since I included my answer in part One…. I will just link to that #7 apostasia

Edited: I decided to add a little more to this.

______________________________________________________________________________________________
Taking a look at apostasia in the context.

The Greek actually reads hē apostasia…. “Hē” is the article “the” and should read the falling away or more accurately as we can see from Gods Word “the departure” although the Greek does not need the article to make the noun definite as in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article.

The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun (such as “this” or “that”)…. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object.

Whenever the Greek uses the article, it points out individual identity…. it marks a specific object of thought. The Greeks use the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses,…. or even with whole sentences…. When the article Hē appears in the Greek it always signals some special significance.


But where/what is the designated object that the article is drawing our attention to.

If we go with the conventional thought The Falling Away ….where is that???

If you go with what I believe the Word dictates The Departure …that we can easily see from 2Th 2:1 The Greek article points here to a previous context namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus into the air and the gathering together of the Saints unto Him.

If you remove the verse numbers and read these verse together it will help to illuminate this.

Aramaic Peshitta
2 Thes _1-3
NOW we beseech you, my brethren, concerning the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ, and concerning our gathering together with him. That you let not your minds be hastily excited or troubled, neither by word, nor by prophecy of the spirit, nor by an epistle, supposedly from us, stating that the day of the LORD is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for unless it is preceded by the departure, and the man of sin be revealed as the son of perdition.

If apostasia means "departure/rapture," then you have removed the reason Paul gives that the day of the LORD and the rapture cannot be imminent (occur at any time); i.e., because the apostasia (rapture) had not yet occurred.
You have made the event (apostasia) which must precede the rapture (and day of the LORD) to be the rapture itself.

So in 2 Th 2:1-8, Paul is correcting their view that the rapture was imminent (2:3) and for which they were idly waiting to occur, as seen by
1) his emphasis on the apostasia (apostasy/rebellion) which must occur (2:3-8) before there will be a rapture (2:1), thereby making it not imminent, and
2) his exhortation to get back to work instead of idly waiting for a not-imminent rapture (3:10-12).

Likewise, the rapture is still not imminent, for the same reason it was not imminent to the Thessalonians 2,000 years ago; i.e., the apostasy (rebellion) has not occurred and the man of lawlessness has not been revealed (v.3).

4-6
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is reverenced; so that even in the temple of God, he sits as a god, and shows himself, as though he were a god. Do you not remember, that when I was with you, I told you these things? And now you know what has prevented him from being revealed in his time.

 

[Dan Perez]

If apostasia means "departure/rapture," then you have removed the reason Paul gives that the day of the LORD and the rapture cannot be imminent (occur at any time); i.e., because the apostasia (rapture) had not yet occurred.
You have made the event (apostasia) which must precede the rapture (and day of the LORD) to be the rapture itself.

So in 2 Th 2:1-8, Paul is correcting their view that the rapture was imminent (2:3) and for which they were idly waiting to occur, as seen by
1) his emphasis on the apostasia (apostasy/rebellion) which must occur (2:3-8) before there will be a rapture (2:1), thereby making it not imminent, and
2) his exhortation to get back to work instead of idly waiting for a not-imminent rapture (3:10-12).

Likewise, the rapture is still not imminent, for the same reason it was not imminent to the Thessalonians 2,000 years ago; i.e., the apostasy (rebellion) has not occurred and the man of lawlessness has not been revealed (v.3).

I am using a translation from Robert C Brock that I prefer and reads ,,No one should thoroughly deceive you in not one way because except the DEPARTURE should come FIRST and the man of sin should be revealed , the son of destruction .

APOSTASIA is also used in Acts 21:21 .

dan p

 

[Clare73]

I am using a translation from Robert C Brock that I prefer and reads ,,No one should thoroughly deceive you in not one way because except the DEPARTURE should come FIRST and the man of sin should be revealed , the son of destruction .

APOSTASIA is also used in Acts 21:21 .

dan p

Have I misunderstood your use of "departure" to mean "rapture" rather than "falling away, rebellion"?
If so, I apologize.

 

[Dan Perez]

Have I misunderstood your use of "departure" to mean "rapture" rather than "falling away, rebellion"?
If so, I apologize.

Many Greek words , have more than one meaning , and I hold and believe that APOSTASIA means a DEPARTURE of the B O C which many call the RAPTURE .

The Greek word GRACE has up to 12 meaning .

What word would you use in 1 Cor 10:2 , where it reads , And all were BAPTIZED unto Moses , in the CLOUD and in the SEA , and what word would USE ??

Most would say , that they were WATER BAPTIZED , BUT the ones water BAPTIZED was the army of the Egyptians .

I would use IDENIFICATION .

dan p

 

[Clare73]

Many Greek words , have more than one meaning , and I hold and believe that APOSTASIA means a DEPARTURE of the B O C which many call the RAPTURE .

The Greek word GRACE has up to 12 meaning .

What word would you use in 1 Cor 10:2 , where it reads , And all were BAPTIZED unto Moses , in the CLOUD and in the SEA , and what word would USE ??

Most would say , that they were WATER BAPTIZED , BUT the ones water BAPTIZED was the army of the Egyptians .

I would use IDENIFICATION .

dan p

1) If apostasia means "departure/rapture," then you have removed the reason Paul gives that the day of the LORD and the rapture cannot be imminent (occur at any time); i.e., because the apostasia (rapture) had not yet occurred.
You have made the event (apostasia) which must precede the rapture (and day of the LORD) to be the rapture itself.

2) Robert C Brock does not seem to be aware of the meaning of words in the Greek of the NT, where apostasia (falling away, turning from, abandonment) does not mean harpazo (catching, siezing, snatching away).

 

[Dan Perez]

1) If apostasia means "departure/rapture," then you have removed the reason Paul gives that the day of the LORD and the rapture cannot be imminent (occur at any time); i.e., because the apostasia (rapture) had not yet occurred.
You have made the event (apostasia) which must precede the rapture (and day of the LORD) to be the rapture itself.

2) Robert C Brock does not seem to be aware of the meaning of words in the Greek of the NT, where apostasia (falling away, turning from, abandonment) does not mean harpazo (catching, siezing, snatching away).

And R C BROCK learned Greek from Dr PENTECOST .

In Gal 1:4 it reads He might deliver / EXAIREO and is in the SECOND AORIST TENSE , MIDDLE VOICE and in the SUBJECTIVE MOOD and the Aorist tense says it has happened , describes the subject as PARTICIPATING IN THE RESULTS .and the SUBJECTIVE MOOD is used to express things that could be or imminent .

dan p

 

[Clare73]

And R C BROCK learned Greek from Dr PENTECOST .

Okay. . .that doesn't change of the meaning of apostasia to harpazo.

 

[Dan Perez]

Okay. . .that doesn't change of the meaning of apostasia to harpazo.

We will KNOW all at the BEMA SEAT .

I have not seen where I used the Greek word HARPAZO ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

We will KNOW all at the BEMA SEAT .

dan p

Okay. . .that doesn't change the meaning of apostasia to harpazo.

 

[Dan Perez]

Okay. . .that doesn't change the meaning of apostasia to harpazo.

SO , where is the Greek HARPAZO used ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

SO , where is the Greek HARPAZO used ?

dan p

1Th 4:17. . .snatched up, seized up, caught up

 

[Dan Perez]

1Th 4:17. . .snatched up, seized up, caught up

1 Thess 4:17 does use the Greek word HARPAZO and is a SECOND FUTURE , PASSIVE VOICE , and a SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD and is LURAL

HARPAZO is used as PLUCK 2X , CATCH UP 4 X , TAKE BY FORCE 3X

And Gal 1:4 the Greek word is EXAIREO and is a SECOND AORIST TENSE , A MIDDLE VOICE , SUBJECATIVE MOOD and is SINGULAR .

And translated , to PLUCK OUT , 2X , DELIVER 5 X , RESCUE 1 X , and SELECT .

Just google second aorist tense and others and will say what they mean >

dan p

 

[Clare73]

1 Thess 4:17 does use the Greek word HARPAZO and is a SECOND FUTURE , PASSIVE VOICE , and a SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD and is LURAL

You need another Bible, that is a bad translation, harpagesometha is not lural (and likewise, that is "subjunctive").

 

[Dan Perez]

You need another Bible, that is a bad translation, harpagesometha is not lural (and likewise, that is "subjunctive").

Sorry and it is the Greek word HARPAZO and AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and is INDICATIVE and means it is PLURAL .

The AORIST TENSE means it has happened .

The PASSIVE VOICE means that it is Christ performing this action .

The INDICATIVE MOOD means that verse in Gal 1:4 is a FACT .

Why them PLURAL , just means that Christ is TAKING UP all the B O C to heaven .

It is fixed .

dan p

 

[Clare73]

Sorry and it is the Greek word HARPAZO and AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and is INDICATIVE and means it is PLURAL .

I understood your post to be stating that the word harpagesometha was the word lural in in your Bible.

 

[Dan Perez]

I understood your post to be stating that the word harpagesometha was the word lural in in your Bible.

I believe that I fixed what I wrote as you see I misspelled HARPAZO and jammed sometha and and left out the P in PLURAL ,just in a big hurry and did not check my spelling , and should settle it ?

dan p