There is only one Dragon/Serpent in scripture (Part 3)

[Grip Docility]

Let's recap some important points that were covered in Part 1 and 2
​

1. Satan mixes Truth with Lies
2. Satan is Self Righteous
3. Satan does malicious things under the guise of benevolence and righteousness
4. Satan is self serving (He stole the dominion over the earth from Eve, through deceit)
5. Satan, from Genesis to the Gospels, still has access to Heaven and has a very important position in Heaven
6. Satan stood where Jesus now stands. This matter is the most important to understand!

Satan was mankind's "Mediator" between God and Man! He accused the brethren, night and day! We used to have a prosecuting attorney, (Satan) instead of the compassionate DEFENSE ATTOURNEY that we NOW HAVE (Jesus). ​

Satan literally bounced form Heaven to Earth to "Mediate".​

7. When Satan Deceived Eve, Creation was subjugated to the Rule of the Created, instead of the intended Rule of the Creator.
8. Satan brought DEATH into this world and was "Cursed" with the Power of Death
9. Satan is "Cunning"
10. Satan is written about in Job in a covert manner... (Job 41)... and is ultimately assigned the name (King of the Proud)

Give Job 41 a read, as it is very important to understand when searching scripture for the "Types" that reveal more about the adversary of God.

​

Job 41 HCSB​

​

​

​

41 [a]Can you pull in Leviathan with a hook
or tie his tongue down with a rope? Jesus often references fishing (Mark 1:17) There's a distinct reason that Leviathan is a "Sea Beast"
2 Can you put a cord[b] through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3 Will he beg you for mercy Matthew 9:13
or speak softly to you?
4 Will he make a covenant with you This one may tick some folks off, but it's biblical, so here goes (Acts 7:53)(Galatians 3:19)(Galatians 6:13)
so that you can take him as a slave forever? (Matthew 4:8-10)(2 Corinthians 3:7, Hebrews 2:14, 1 Corinthians 15:56)
5 Can you play with him like a bird
or put him on a leash[c] for your girls?
6 Will traders bargain for him
or divide him among the merchants?
7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?
8 Lay a[d] hand on him.
You will remember the battle
and never repeat it!
9 [e]Any hope of capturing him proves false.
Does a person not collapse at the very sight of him?
10 No one is ferocious enough to rouse Leviathan;
who then can stand against Me?
11 Who confronted Me, that I should repay him?
Everything under heaven belongs to Me.

​

12 I cannot be silent about his limbs,
his power, and his graceful proportions.
13 Who can strip off his outer covering?
Who can penetrate his double layer of armor?[f]
14 Who can open his jaws,[g]
surrounded by those terrifying teeth?
15 His pride is in his rows of scales,
closely sealed together.
16 One scale is so close to another[h]
that no air can pass between them.
17 They are joined to one another,
so closely connected[i] they cannot be separated.
18 His snorting[j] flashes with light,
while his eyes are like the rays[k] of dawn.
19 Flaming torches shoot from his mouth;
fiery sparks fly out!
20 Smoke billows from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot or burning reeds.
21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames pour out of his mouth.
22 Strength resides in his neck,
and dismay dances before him.
23 The folds of his flesh are joined together,
solid as metal[l] and immovable.
24 His heart is as hard as a rock,
as hard as a lower millstone!
25 When Leviathan rises, the mighty[m] are terrified;
they withdraw because of his thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches him will have no effect,
nor will a spear, dart, or arrow.
27 He regards iron as straw,
and bronze as rotten wood.
28 No arrow can make him flee;
slingstones become like stubble to him.
29 A club is regarded as stubble,
and he laughs at the sound of a javelin.
30 His undersides are jagged potsherds,
spreading the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 He makes the depths seethe like a cauldron;
he makes the sea like an ointment jar.
32 He leaves a shining wake behind him;[n]
one would think the deep had gray hair!
33 He has no equal on earth—
a creature devoid of fear!
34 He surveys everything that is haughty;
he is king over all the proud beasts.[o] He surveys everything that is haughty; he is king over all the proud beasts

​

Let's keep this simple and call this the conclusion of Part 3
Please Ensure That Parts 1 and 2 are understood and checked against scripture.

Link to part 1
Link to part 2
Link to part 4
Link to part 5
Link to part 6
Link to part 7​

 

[BobRyan]

Let's recap some important points that were covered in Part 1 and 2
​

...
4. Satan is self serving (He stole the dominion over the earth from Eve, through deceit)

ok 1-4 seems reasonable

5. Satan, from Genesis to the Gospels, still has access to Heaven and has a very important position in Heaven

Do you mean he had some form of access to heaven until Christ died? If so I agree with that as well. He was the enemy of Christ since before Eden and had some form of access (as in Job 1 and Job 2) to heavenly councils where he strongly opposed the word of God. (essentially declaring God to be a liar in job 1 and 2 - the gospel to be a failure)

6. Satan stood where Jesus now stands. This matter is the most important to understand!

Satan was mankind's "Mediator" between God and Man! He accused the brethren, night and day! We used to have a prosecuting attorney, (Satan) instead of the compassionate DEFENSE ATTOURNEY that we NOW HAVE (Jesus). ​

Satan literally bounced form Heaven to Earth to "Mediate".​

I have never heard of such a thing.

7. When Satan Deceived Eve, Creation was subjugated to the Rule of the Created, instead of the intended Rule of the Creator.

Adam's dominion was always subservient To God's rule - and Satan could not steal more from Adam - than what he had. So even though Satan now holds Adam's dominion he could not take from God what God never gave away to Adam.

8. Satan brought DEATH into this world

true - but only in that he got Adam to sin -- if Adam had not sinned no amount of "Satan brings death" would have caused death to be in this world

9. Satan is "Cunning"
10. Satan is written about in Job in a covert manner... (Job 41)

Satan is explicitly mentioned in Job 1 and Job 2.

... and is ultimately assigned the name (King of the Proud)

Give Job 41 a read, as it is very important to understand when searching scripture for the "Types" that reveal more about the adversary of God.

​

Job 41 HCSB​

​

​

​

41 [a]Can you pull in Leviathan with a hook
or tie his tongue down with a rope? ​

Job 41 is God speaking to Job. He shows Job that God is much higher than man.

Jesus often references fishing (Matthew 4:9) There's a distinct reason that Leviathan is a "Sea Beast"
2 Can you put a cord[b] through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3 Will he beg you for mercy Matthew 9:13
or speak softly to you?
4 Will he make a covenant with you This one may tick some folks off, but it's biblical, so here goes (Acts 7:53)(Galatians 3:19)(Galatians 6:13)
so that you can take him as a slave forever? (Matthew 4:8-10)(2 Corinthians 3:7, Hebrews 2:14, 1 Corinthians 15:56)
5 Can you play with him like a bird
or put him on a leash[c] for your girls?
6 Will traders bargain for him
or divide him among the merchants?​

I don't see how any of those NT texts speak to Job 41.

 

[Grip Docility]

ok 1-4 seems reasonable

Do you mean he had some form of access to heaven until Christ died? If so I agree with that as well. He was the enemy of Christ since before Eden and had some form of access (as in Job 1 and Job 2) to heavenly councils where he strongly opposed the word of God. (essentially declaring God to be a liar in job 1 and 2 - the gospel to be a failure)

I have never heard of such a thing.

Adam's dominion was always subservient To God's rule - and Satan could not steal more from Adam - than what he had. So even though Satan now holds Adam's dominion he could not take from God what God never gave away to Adam.

true - but only in that he got Adam to sin -- if Adam had not sinned no amount of "Satan brings death" would have caused death to be in this world

Satan is explicitly mentioned in Job 1 and Job 2.

Job 41 is God speaking to Job. He shows Job that God is much higher than man.

I don't see how any of those NT texts speak to Job 41.

Serpent, Dragon, Leviathan is a sea Dragon... Kingdoms of wickedness are referred to as "Beasts".... The Pharisees were called a "Brood of Vipers" by John the Baptizer which binds to Jesus calling the Pharisees that didn't help with His ministry, because some did, son's of the devil.

Whenever a reference to a serpent or dragon of sorts, or beast is found in scripture... it's worth searching for Typification of God's adversary. Thank you for stopping by! I appreciate your input!

I'm not going to do the whole debate thing... where I go line by line and try to argue my point, but instead... respect what you have said. Also, I covered Job 1 in part 2 and will cover Job 2 in part 4.

 

[Grip Docility]

ok 1-4 seems reasonable

Do you mean he had some form of access to heaven until Christ died? If so I agree with that as well. He was the enemy of Christ since before Eden and had some form of access (as in Job 1 and Job 2) to heavenly councils where he strongly opposed the word of God. (essentially declaring God to be a liar in job 1 and 2 - the gospel to be a failure)

I have never heard of such a thing.

Adam's dominion was always subservient To God's rule - and Satan could not steal more from Adam - than what he had. So even though Satan now holds Adam's dominion he could not take from God what God never gave away to Adam.

true - but only in that he got Adam to sin -- if Adam had not sinned no amount of "Satan brings death" would have caused death to be in this world

Satan is explicitly mentioned in Job 1 and Job 2.

Job 41 is God speaking to Job. He shows Job that God is much higher than man.

I don't see how any of those NT texts speak to Job 41.

I had a cut and paste error.... at the first verse I bracketed next to the beginning of Job 41. It was supposed to be Mark 1:17, which I have now fixed. Apologies.

 

[Clare73]

Let's recap some important points that were covered in Part 1 and 2
​

1. Satan mixes Truth with Lies
2. Satan is Self Righteous
3. Satan does malicious things under the guise of benevolence and righteousness
4. Satan is self serving (He stole the dominion over the earth from Eve, through deceit)
5. Satan, from Genesis to the Gospels, still has access to Heaven and has a very important position in Heaven

6. Satan stood where Jesus now stands. This matter is the most important to understand!

Satan was mankind's "Mediator" between God and Man! He accused the brethren, night and day! We used to have a prosecuting attorney, (Satan) instead of the compassionate DEFENSE ATTOURNEY that we NOW HAVE (Jesus). ​

Satan literally bounced form Heaven to Earth to "Mediate".​

Are you familiar with Scripture's use of "mediator"?

The only mediators between God and man which Scripture presents are Moses, the High Priests and Jesus Christ.
Doesn't Scripture present Satan as man's accuser, not his mediator?

 

[Grip Docility]

Are you familiar with Scripture's use of "mediator"?

The only mediators between God and man which Scripture presents are Moses, the High Priests and Jesus Christ.
Doesn't Scripture present Satan as man's accuser, not his mediator?

Jesus stands there in our defense. Before Calvary… a loud mouth stood there accusing us day and night. Michael cast that accusers butt out the second Jesus had all the “paperwork” finalized… (Revelation 12:10)

Also, you’re jumping scripturally ahead! No fair! Hold your horses! We’ll get to the Angel part…

 

[Grip Docility]

Are you familiar with Scripture's use of "mediator"?

The only mediators between God and man which Scripture presents are Moses, the High Priests and Jesus Christ.
Doesn't Scripture present Satan as man's accuser, not his mediator?

And… if you link to part 2, you’ll see that Satan is still in God’s good Grace… as evaluated by Job chapter 1…. You can even see the mediation occurring.

I gave my personal take on the matter, line by line, in the meat of Job 1.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus stands there in our defense. Before Calvary… a loud mouth stood there accusing us day and night. Michael cast that accusers butt out the second Jesus had all the “paperwork” finalized… (Revelation 12:10)

Also, you’re jumping scripturally ahead! No fair! Hold your horses! We’ll get to the Angel part…

But a mediator is not a defender. . .a mediator speaks the message of person #1 to person #2, and then the message of person #2 to person #1.

Jesus mediates our prayer to God (we pray in Jesus' name) and God's benefits to us.

 

[Grip Docility]

But a mediator is not a defender. . .a mediator speaks the message of person #1 to person #2, and then the message of person #2 to person #1.

Jesus mediates our prayer to God (we pray in Jesus' name) and God's benefits to us.

A mediator is simply a go between. Make no mistake.. I know that our MEDIATOR in heaven is AWESOME…

But… the Devil went from Heaven to Earth… and back to Heaven to “give his help” (quotations to show his lies).

Ask a divorced father if all mediators are “Helpful”.

It’s a mere legal term.

 

[Clare73]

And… if you link to part 2, you’ll see that Satan is still in God’s good Grace… as evaluated by Job chapter 1….

The accuser is not in good grace, he simply has access to accuse.

You can even see the mediation occurring.

But that is not Satan mediating, that is Satan accusing.
Nowhere is Job's mind presented or mediated.

Satan is our accuser, not our mediator.

I gave my personal take on the matter, line by line, in the meat of Job 1.

Where do I find that?

 

[Grip Docility]

The accuser is not in good grace, he simply has access to accuse.

But that is not Satan mediating, that is Satan accusing.
Nowhere is Job's mind presented or mediated.

Satan is our accuser, not our mediator.

Where do I find that?

Should be a link at the bottom of the op.

 

[Hazelelponi]

But a mediator is not a defender. . .a mediator speaks the message of person #1 to person #2, and then the message of person #2 to person #1.

Jesus mediates our prayer to God (we pray in Jesus' name) and God's benefits to us.

I would disagree here. A mediator is actually a neutral third party who helps to bring 2 parties to a resolution...

Jesus does this via His Sacrifice and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This is how I understand the matter anyway.

 

[Clare73]

A mediator is simply a go between. Make no mistake.. I know that our MEDIATOR in heaven is AWESOME…

But… the Devil went from Heaven to Earth… and back to Heaven to “give his help” (quotations to show his lies).

Ask a divorced father if all mediators are “Helpful”.

It’s a mere legal term.

In the law and in Scripture, mediators do not accuse, they attempt to reconcile.

I suggest that God has decreed a controversy with Satan (which is why he is allowed to come before God)
in which God's goodness, love, mercy etc. will be glorified through the church (Eph 3:8-11), and
his justice, righteousness and holiness, etc. will be glorified by overcoming Satan. . .in such a way that
Satan will no longer contest (Job 1:9-11, Zec 3:1-2, Rev 12:10), but will be obliged to agree,
that God is just and right (Ro 3:4, Eph 2:10-11).

God is Judge and, therefore, he will not only execute justice, but he will oblige all to agree with it (Php 2:10-11),
for he will be cleared (proven right) when he speaks and prevail (overcome) when he judges (Ro 3:4).

 

[Grip Docility]

I would disagree here. A mediator is actually a neutral third party who helps to bring 2 parties to a resolution...

Jesus does this via His Sacrifice and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This is how I understand the matter anyway.

He's right there, face to face with God, going from earth, to heaven. There's no question what he was doing when you read Rv 12:10 ... and I explained he was abusing his post and acting more like a prosecuting attorney. However... Don't give up on me. I Love the push back and input. If you have issues with what I'm pointing out, now... just wait.... it get's juicer.

 

[Grip Docility]

The accuser is not in good grace, he simply has access to accuse.

He was face to face with God, right up until Jesus died, finished the "Divine Paperwork" (Metaphor), then had that accusers butt thrown out of heaven.

But that is not Satan mediating, that is Satan accusing.
Nowhere is Job's mind presented or mediated.

Have patience with the threads... I'm moving specifically slow, for this exact reason. The parts will come out each day I can generate them. In Job, you have Satan, face to face with God, speaking like an "attorney". It's Satan for goodness sake. Obviously, he's abusing his position. He couldn't be "Out of God's Grace" and face to face with God, or God would have smited him. Allow me to put it this way... God allowed Satan to build his gallows for God... and then allowed Satan to hang himself on those gallows. I promise it will make more sense as I bring more scripture in.

Satan is our accuser, not our mediator.

Where do I find that?

Okay... 1 Corinthians 15:56.... but hold on... We're not there yet. You're too theologically quick!

In all sincerity, I deeply appreciate your feedback! Thank you for taking the time to share your scriptural wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Paul4JC]

He was face to face with God, right up until Jesus died, finished the "Divine Paperwork" (Metaphor), then had that accusers butt thrown out of heaven.

Have patience with the threads... I'm moving specifically slow, for this exact reason. The parts will come out each day I can generate them. In Job, you have Satan, face to face with God, speaking like an "attorney". It's Satan for goodness sake. Obviously, he's abusing his position. He couldn't be "Out of God's Grace" and face to face with God, or God would have smited him. Allow me to put it this way... God allowed Satan to build his gallows for God... and then allowed Satan to hang himself on those gallows. I promise it will make more sense as I bring more scripture in.

Okay... 1 Corinthians 15:56.... but hold on... We're not there yet. You're too theologically quick!

In all sincerity, I deeply appreciate your feedback! Thank you for taking the time to share your scriptural wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

I see your point in saying Satan is a pseudo, false, and evil mediator. He also tried to pull all this off when he tempted the Lord Jesus.

[Pro 23:7 ESV] for he is like one who is inwardly calculating. "Eat and drink!" he says to you, but his heart is not with you.

 

[Clare73]

He was face to face with God, right up until Jesus died, finished the "Divine Paperwork" (Metaphor), then had that accusers butt thrown out of heaven.

Have patience with the threads... I'm moving specifically slow, for this exact reason. The parts will come out each day I can generate them. In Job, you have Satan, face to face with God, speaking like an "attorney". It's Satan for goodness sake. Obviously, he's abusing his position. He couldn't be "Out of God's Grace" and face to face with God,

He could if God has decreed a controversy with him whereby
Satan will no longer contest (Job 1:9-11, Zec 3:1-2, Rev 12:10), but will be obliged to agree,
that God is just and right (Ro 3:4, Eph 2:10-11).

or God would have smited him. Allow me to put it this way... God allowed Satan to build his gallows for God... and then allowed Satan to hang himself on those gallows. I promise it will make more sense as I bring more scripture in.

Okay... 1 Corinthians 15:56.... but hold on... We're not there yet. You're too theologically quick!

In all sincerity, I deeply appreciate your feedback! Thank you for taking the time to share your scriptural wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Grip Docility]

He could if God has decreed a controversy with him whereby
Satan will no longer contest (Job 1:9-11, Zec 3:1-2, Rev 12:10), but will be obliged to agree,
that God is just and right (Ro 3:4, Eph 2:10-11).

That scripture 6 shooter of yours is quite the quick draw! Much Gratitude! Erm... Please don't beat me to the end of this OP series.

 

[Clare73]

He was face to face with God, right up until Jesus died, finished the "Divine Paperwork" (Metaphor), then had that accusers butt thrown out of heaven.

However, as God's enemy, is that Satan couldn't come before God not a human assumption nowhere presented, and actually contradicted in Scripture?
Since all is ordained by God, the controversy with Satan would be to the glory of the Father through the glory of the Son who defeats him.

Have patience with the threads... I'm moving specifically slow, for this exact reason. The parts will come out each day I can generate them.

I hear ya'. . .but we should stay on the Biblical rails, right?

In Job, you have Satan, face to face with God, speaking like an "attorney". It's Satan for goodness sake.

Yes, Satan is the accuser of mankind, always challenging the justness ("favoritism") of God in his dealings with the righteous.

Obviously, he's abusing his position. He couldn't be "Out of God's Grace" and face to face with God, or God would have smited him.

Is that not a human assumption. . .and in terms of "stayin' on the rails," not in agreement with the Biblical account?

Allow me to put it this way... God allowed Satan to build his gallows for God... and then allowed Satan to hang himself on those gallows. I promise it will make more sense as I bring more scripture in.

Okay... 1 Corinthians 15:56.... but hold on... We're not there yet. You're too theologically quick!

Thanks, but the NT seems to disagree.

1 Co15:56 - the sting of death is sin (like the sting of death is rattlesnake) i.e., it was sin that brought us under death's power--it was Adam's sin that brought his death (Ro 5:12) and ultimately, ours.
and the power of sin (to kill) is the law; i.e., the law of God gives sin its power, for it both reveals our sin and condemns us to death.

 

[Clare73]

That scripture 6 shooter of yours is quite the quick draw! Much Gratitude! Erm... Please don't beat me to the end of this OP series.

I'll try not to do so. . .but don't we have to stick with the Bibilical narrative, rather than creating our own?

I don't see us as in anyway improving on the word of God written.