Scientific studies on near death experiences support an afterlife

[bhayes]

This study covered in the book "At the Hour of Death" was done on 50,000 patients in western and non-western countries who reported seeing vision before death. Interestingly, a quote from this book is:

"The various Vedic "loci" of an afterlife--Hindu Heaven -- were never mentioned. Nor were reincarnation and dissolution in Brahma, the formless aspect of God which is the goal of Indian spiritual striving. [But] the concept of Karma may -- accumulation of merits and demerits -- may have been vaguely suggested by a "white robe man with a book of accounts." - Osis and Haraldsson

and after repeating the experiment, concluded that: what he called the "sick brain hypothesis" – that the decrease of brain activity was causally linked to near death experiences – did not stand up to scrutiny



In fact, because these two were not Christians they didn't know they were referring to Jesus Christ, the Lord.

Revelation 7:9: "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands."

Revelation 20:11-13
Then I saw a great white throne and the One who sat on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before thethrone. And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judgedaccording to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.…

2nd Corinthians 5:10-11
"10For we must all appearbefore the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whethergood or bad. 11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear of the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.…"

Also these are non-christian sources but many who have these nde report the same experience. Interestingly if you go onto http://www.nderf.org/ an archive of nde research and stories, the majority of stories are about a life review, and receiving unconditional love. That is God, whose love is unconditional.

 

[Armoured]

Well I feel cheated. I've been clinically dead twice and had no meaningful visions of the afterlife.

 

[bhayes]

Well I feel cheated. I've been clinically dead twice and had no meaningful visions of the afterlife.

Hey well I am sure you are not the only one, so I wouldn't feel as if you missed out on something. These are just those who have and reported it. The blessing is that we know that when the time does come we are eternally secure in Jesus Christ.

 

[JackRT]

The scientific studies that I have come across on the NDE, all suggest that it is a natural reaction of the body to oxygen starvation. Moreover, it seems to be religiously and/or culturally conditioned.

 

[bhayes]

The scientific studies that I have come across on the NDE, all suggest that it is a natural reaction of the body to oxygen starvation. Moreover, it seems to be religiously and/or culturally conditioned.

How can it be religiously conditioned if hindus and others in different cultures reported the same similar experience, with no mention of krishna a blue sknned figure with multiple arms and legs, or any other pagan God except for experiencing unconditional love and light (who is Jesus when he said "I am the light of the world"). Also if you go to the website I posted there are posts from all over the world who report the same thing. That is not a christian based website by the way but its dedicated to nde stories. Also if it was a natural reaction then wouldnt everyone have it? Thats not the case though as Armoured mentioned.

 

[bhsmte]

The scientific studies that I have come across on the NDE, all suggest that it is a natural reaction of the body to oxygen starvation. Moreover, it seems to be religiously and/or culturally conditioned.

I would agree.

 

[Ana the Ist]

How can it be religiously conditioned if hindus and others in different cultures reported the same similar experience, with no mention of krishna a blue sknned figure with multiple arms and legs, or any other pagan God except for experiencing unconditional love and light (who is Jesus when he said "I am the light of the world"). Also if you go to the website I posted there are posts from all over the world who report the same thing. That is not a christian based website by the way but its dedicated to nde stories. Also if it was a natural reaction then wouldnt everyone have it? Thats not the case though as Armoured mentioned.

Actually...

http://www.near-death.com/religion/hinduism.html

This wasn't hard to find at all...and their experiences seem to fit well with their religious beliefs. How hard did you really look? This took me about 20 seconds to find.

 

[Chany]

I'm looking into the authors. Both don't exactly have a good track record when it comes to uncriticizable methodology. These men like parapsychology. They don't appear to be scientific at all when it comes to some of their other studies and pursuits. The study appears to be old; 1976 at the best, possibly earlier if it was one of Osis' earlier studies.

I'm getting all sorts of different numbers all over the net related to this study. Some say 50,000, while others say 10,000 (with only a small fraction of that number actually responding). The entire thing was conducted from reports given by medical staff, not people with NDEs.

It is important to note: the near-death experiences should not be interpreted as "I almost died, but came back". The subjects were terminally ill and what is being described is the experiences of those about to die.

 

[bhayes]

Actually...

http://www.near-death.com/religion/hinduism.html

This wasn't hard to find at all...and their experiences seem to fit well with their religious beliefs. How hard did you really look? This took me about 20 seconds to find.

From that page I got this is what the author concluded:
(1) In 45 Hindu near-death accounts, Pasrich and Stevenson found no evidence of a tunnel experience which is frequently found in western accounts of the near-death experience. However, another near-death researcher,Susan Blackmore, reported accounts of a tunnel experience in her research of 8 Hindu near-death experiencers.

(2) Only one account contained an out-of-body experience, which is another aspect that is frequently found in western accounts. Osis and Haraldsson did find several accounts of out-of-body experience in the Indian near-death experiences they researched.

(3) Consistent with western accounts, some Hindu near-death accounts included a life review. However, whereas in western accounts the life review often consists of seeing a panoramic view of a person's entire life, Hindu accounts consists of having someone read the record of the dying person's life called the "akashic record." In Christian circles, this is equivalent to reading from the "Book of Life" as known from the Christian doctrine of the resurrection. In Hindu circles, it is a traditional belief that the reading of a person's akashic record occurs immediately after death. This concept is widely believed by Hindus all over India. However, the panoramic life review, which is commonly mentioned in western accounts, does not appear in accounts from India.

(4) As in western accounts, Hindu near-death accounts sometimes describe the meeting of religious deities and deceased loved ones.


Points 1 and 2, ok so it varies with out of body experiences and tunnel vision. Point 3 is interesting, they both have accounts of getting a life review out of a book. According to hindus they identify it as the "akashic record" along the lines of there culture however that doesnt make it correct, they wouldn't know what it is if nobody told them. Likewise for points 4 there is no difference, a hindu might mistake an angel or something for a God, and even in the bible times when angels appeared Christians and Jews themselves were fearful. So in conclusion they are seeing similar things but obviously the hindus according to their culture are misinterpreting what they are seeing. It may seem arrogant but it is simply true, there are no aspects of the hindu religion found in any accounts. Karma is in fact a misinterpretation of biblical truth.

 

[keith99]

The scientific studies that I have come across on the NDE, all suggest that it is a natural reaction of the body to oxygen starvation. Moreover, it seems to be religiously and/or culturally conditioned.

Ah that explains why when I came close I didn't see anything.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I claim the night my own father died he appeared in my room. I've written a narrative on it.
I wasn't the one who was dead - he was. His body was lying on a bed in a flat miles away. But he turned up in my room all right. He started with an apology for years of deliberate cruelty, we argued and talked, and at the end he gave this almighty scream and then just disappeared. It was also obvious something was coming for him.

I got up, turned on all the lights, looked in every nook and cranny, and finally got back to a fitful sleep.

Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he'd died, but that it was a mess because his body hadn't been found for four days. Then the penny dropped. I still remember standing there, turning towards my bedroom, counting back four days, and thinking, "Then what the hell was that the other night??!!"

But I was an atheist at the time, and my next thought was "Nah! I don't believe in that sort of thing. It must have been a bad dream or something!"

For the record, here's a link to "ghost stories" on allnurses.com. Obviously nurses in hospices and hospitals often deal with dying and dead people. And they're usually pragmatic people as well, not given to flights of fancy.

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/whats-your-best-108202.html

There's an after life all right, and there's a judgment too, as my father found out too late, over 37 years ago now. I still remember his parting scream and it was just sheer terror.

Exactly what ghosts are I don't know, but they're just one more part of the very strange psychic world that exists out there. I even had a Presbyterian pastor say to me once (he dealt a lot with street kids), "There's a very strange psychic world out there!"

 

[ananda]

How can it be religiously conditioned if hindus and others in different cultures reported the same similar experience, with no mention of krishna a blue sknned figure with multiple arms and legs, or any other pagan God except for experiencing unconditional love and light ...

Among early Buddhists, this is commonly experienced - even in this life.

During advanced meditative practices (high levels of jhana), we strip away the outer layers of our identity until we come to a point where we perceive ourselves as only pure consciousness. It seems to be most frequently observed as pure light, radiating love, compassion, joy, and equanimity.

 

[Ana the Ist]

From that page I got this is what the author concluded:
(1) In 45 Hindu near-death accounts, Pasrich and Stevenson found no evidence of a tunnel experience which is frequently found in western accounts of the near-death experience. However, another near-death researcher,Susan Blackmore, reported accounts of a tunnel experience in her research of 8 Hindu near-death experiencers.

(2) Only one account contained an out-of-body experience, which is another aspect that is frequently found in western accounts. Osis and Haraldsson did find several accounts of out-of-body experience in the Indian near-death experiences they researched.

(3) Consistent with western accounts, some Hindu near-death accounts included a life review. However, whereas in western accounts the life review often consists of seeing a panoramic view of a person's entire life, Hindu accounts consists of having someone read the record of the dying person's life called the "akashic record." In Christian circles, this is equivalent to reading from the "Book of Life" as known from the Christian doctrine of the resurrection. In Hindu circles, it is a traditional belief that the reading of a person's akashic record occurs immediately after death. This concept is widely believed by Hindus all over India. However, the panoramic life review, which is commonly mentioned in western accounts, does not appear in accounts from India.

(4) As in western accounts, Hindu near-death accounts sometimes describe the meeting of religious deities and deceased loved ones.


Points 1 and 2, ok so it varies with out of body experiences and tunnel vision. Point 3 is interesting, they both have accounts of getting a life review out of a book. According to hindus they identify it as the "akashic record" along the lines of there culture however that doesnt make it correct, they wouldn't know what it is if nobody told them. Likewise for points 4 there is no difference, a hindu might mistake an angel or something for a God, and even in the bible times when angels appeared Christians and Jews themselves were fearful. So in conclusion they are seeing similar things but obviously the hindus according to their culture are misinterpreting what they are seeing. It may seem arrogant but it is simply true, there are no aspects of the hindu religion found in any accounts. Karma is in fact a misinterpretation of biblical truth.

"There are no aspects of Hindu religion found in any accounts."

Did you read the accounts?

"
Two persons caught me and took me with them. I felt tired after walking some distance; they started to drag me. My feet became useless. There was a man sitting up. He looked dreadful and was all black. He was not wearing any clothes. He said in a rage to the attendants [who brought Vasudev there]:

"I had asked you to bring Vasudev the gardener. Our garden is drying up. You have brought Vasudev the student."

When I regained consciousness, Vasudev the gardener was standing in front of me [apparently in the crowd of family and servants who had gathered around the bed of the ostensibly dead Vasudev]. He was hale and hearty. People started teasing him saying, "Now it is your turn." He seemed to sleep well in the night, but the next morning he was dead."

In reply to questions about details, Vasudev said that the "black man" had a club and used foul language. Vasudev identified him as Yamraj, the Hindu god of the dead. He said that he was "brought back" by the same two men who had taken him to Yamraj in the first place. Vasudev's mother, who died before the time of the interview, was a pious woman who read scriptures which included descriptions of Yamraj. Vasudev, even as a boy before his near-death experience, was quite familiar with Yamraj."

So here's literally the first account described on the link I gave you ...and in it you have a Hindu deity. Not some Hindu deity who appears similar to some christian supernatural entity...but one who literally has no christian equivalent. A Hindu death god.

How can you sit there and seriously believe what you've typed? Do you have so much invested in this "evidence" that you can't believe any evidence to the contrary?

Does it really bother you that Hindu's with NDE 's have Hindu versions of their experiences?

 

[Freodin]

So here's literally the first account described on the link I gave you ...and in it you have a Hindu deity. Not some Hindu deity who appears similar to some christian supernatural entity...but one who literally has no christian equivalent. A Hindu death god.

Hey, he just mistook an angel for a Hindu death god, and made up all the rest. This is what Hindu's do, in contrast to Christians, who would never mistake a Hindu death god for an angel and make up all the rest.

 

[blackribbon]

There is a neurologist who is willing to stake his reputation on the near death experience is not just oxygen deprivation like he once naively believed. Eben Alexander III is an American neurosurgeon and the author of the book Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife, in which he describes his 2008 near-death experience and asserts that science can and will determine that the brain does not create consciousness and that consciousness survives bodily death.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

There is a neurologist who is willing to stake his reputation on the near death experience is not just oxygen deprivation like he once naively believed.

Yup, such hyper-vivid personal experiences can be life-changing; but that doesn't mean they're real. I heard an interesting discussion on BBC Radio 4, where a neurologist specialising in drugs and neurotransmitters compared Dr Eben's description of his experiences with a couple of descriptions of ketamine trips from his patients; they were strikingly similar in imagery and emotional response. This isn't to say Dr. Eben was given ketamine, only to emphasise that such experiences can be induced without an NDE. A more sober (!) analysis appeared in Scientific American; you can find other critiques online, but avoid Esquire's piece of poor journalism.

 

[blackribbon]

Yup, such hyper-vivid personal experiences can be life-changing; but that doesn't mean they're real. I heard an interesting discussion on BBC Radio 4, where a neurologist specialising in drugs and neurotransmitters compared Dr Eben's description of his experiences with a couple of descriptions of ketamine trips from his patients; they were strikingly similar in imagery and emotional response. This isn't to say Dr. Eben was given ketamine, only to emphasise that such experiences can be induced without an NDE. A more sober (!) analysis appeared in Scientific American; you can find other critiques online, but avoid Esquire's piece of poor journalism.

Yes, but did you listen to his story long enough to know he wrote it down his memories before he read his medical report. His memories were HIS. He actually should be dead or at best seriously brain damaged based on his medical report (and based on that particular disease).

The "beauty" of death or near death experiences is that there is no way to prove them....though people until they experience them first hand will religiously try to explain them away. Is it really easier to believe that we simply cease to exist when our bodies die? That our consciousness is really so inconsequential?

 

[bhsmte]

Yes, but did you listen to his story long enough to know he wrote it down his memories before he read his medical report. His memories were HIS. He actually should be dead or at best seriously brain damaged based on his medical report (and based on that particular disease).

The "beauty" of death or near death experiences is that there is no way to prove them....though people until they experience them first hand will religiously try to explain them away. Is it really easier to believe that we simply cease to exist when our bodies die? That our consciousness is really so inconsequential?

This person's personal experiences, would not be considered scientific.

 

[Nithavela]

How about a compromise?

Half of those NDE were caused by brain chemicals and scientific processes.

The other half were honest miracles and visions of the afterlife.

 

[blackribbon]

This person's personal experiences, would not be considered scientific.

Exactly how do you have a "scientifically" after life experience. How do you bring along someone else to witness it, measure it, or objectively measure it? It is all "not scientific" but by him writing down his experiences before he added the outside information AND him having a very knowledgable working understanding of the human brain...it is about as scientific as a near death experience can ever get.