2 questions about Satan

[awitch]

Two quick and sincere questions about this Satan guy (assuming you think he is a personal, supernatural being, and not a metaphor for temptation)...

1. Why doesn't Satan just possess someone who has the ability to fire nuclear weapons and start a nuclear holocaust to destroy God's creation?

2. The Bible is mass printed all around the world in almost every language so humans can read it. I am Assuming Satan or his minions can also read the Bible - including Revelation. So, why doesn't Satan just NOT do anything thereby preventing God's plan from coming to fruition?

 

[Bobinator]

Contrary to popular belief, Satan is not some renegade who rebelled against God and is running rampant on the face of the earth with God chasing after him like some out-of-control kid. Satan was created by God to perform specific functions. One of them is to test the heart and will of mankind. Think of it in terms of God being the judge and Satan the executioner.

In Isaiah 45:7, God said, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

In Isaiah 54:16, God also said, “Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.”

Revelations 4:11- Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

If you note the Book of Genesis, God judges Satan and sentences him to crawling on his belly and eating dust for the rest of his days. The dust is a type and shadow of carnality, because that is what our flesh is made from and will eventually return.

Having said this, Satan can only operate within his legal rights through sin committed by man.

In John 14:30, Jesus said, “Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.”

In other words, Satan had no right to touch Jesus, because Jesus had no sin. Yet, Jesus laid his life down for our sakes.

Satan has no choice but to obey the Lord, despite his knowledge of the Word and of the future. Satan is certainly worthy of his fate.

If you read the beginning part of the Book of Job, you’ll see Satan conversing with God and conducting activity as if employed by God. This is not consistent with, and does not support the same image created by the Luciferian teachings. But make no mistake, God does not love Satan.

 

[BobW188]

#1. God's creation is the universe, not just Earth, so nuclear winter would in no real way destroy it. More importantly, Satan's goal is human souls for eternity, not just our physical death. In the nuclear scenario, the saved would still be saved, the damned still damned, so he makes no real gain.

#2. You have to understand that Satan was defeated on the cross and when the stone rolled away. The outcome is no longer in doubt. We are, as it were, somewhere between Omaha Beach and Berlin. The initiative is God's; and he can compel Satan to meet him on his terms.

 

[XChristian]

One of the main reasons I am an agnostic and not an atheist is that I believe some power/force must be looking out for us. If not we would have nuked ourselves to oblivion a long time ago. But that's just the way I see it.

 

[BobW188]

There is a great deal of difference between being given wide latitude and being given orders.
Jesus could be tempted because he was fully human as well as fully divine, and had freedom to choose; and we needn't get rid of Satan simply because our own selfish interests further his.

 

[awitch]

I have seen and dealt with demonic entities. Satan is real and not a metaphor. Metaphors do not have conversations with God and people. Neither do metaphors possess and torment people.

Would you mind sharing the details of your dealings with these entities (privately in email is OK if do not wish to share in public)?

 

[aiki]

God has conversations with this product of God's creative genius, this fallen angel? Why?

Why do you think? Do you think God's just kicking back with Satan, having a cup of coffee? What interactions the Bible tells us the two have with each other is hardly congenial.

Why not just destroy him, since that is the eventual plan anyway?

Because God's plan for Satan's destruction is perfect and doesn't need to be moved up to suit your schedule.

Why doesn't God just admit he made a mistake and stop being God?

Because He hasn't made any mistakes. Your failure to fathom God's doings just illustrates your finiteness, your highly limited scope of understanding, not God's failure to function perfectly.

God certainly can't make mistakes... we can't have that!

Quite right.

Or could it be that God just doesn't care about human suffering? (Think about Job's troubles and his family)

I think generally people have a highly overinflated sense of their own importance in God's grand scheme of things. This is why Job's story often sticks in the craw of those who read about it. His story makes it quite clear that God does what He wants with what He has made. In spite of the fact that this is God's prerogative as God, some of us like to shake our fist in His face and shout, "How dare you?!"

In the end, God more than restores Job's initial state. If God truly didn't care about Job's troubles, why would He bother? And not only does God restore Job's wealth, health and family, He deigns to give a rationale of sorts to Job's questions about his terrible ordeal. God would have been completely within His rights to have done none of this.

Peace.

 

[Bobinator]

Awitch-

As described in the Bible how Jesus and his disciples cast out demons, I have also taken part in that ministry, as have millions of other Christians around the world. It is not an unusual thing, or something considered “special”. In fact, Jesus commands that we go out and exercise the gifts of the Spirit to minister to others and edify the body of Christ as he did. This spiritual authority is given to all who accept the Lord and receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Jesus defeated Satan on the cross, but gave us the job of doing the “house cleaning” so-to-speak.

I have seen many who were tormented by demonic spirits set free. I have seen cancers and other ailments cured as a result of delivering someone of demonic spirits. If and when they do speak through a person’s mouth, sometimes they reveal information the individual would not have known. And no, chemicals do not impart this kind of knowledge and information into a persons mind. Nor do chemicals cause a female to speak in a man’s voice, or give them superhuman strength. Drugs may do this, but the people I know and prayed for do not take drugs. They are not insane or “possessed” either. These symptoms have happened only after we start the prayer session to help someone deal with a problem being instigated by demonic influence. I have seen glimpses of demons in places and houses that I have participated in blessing. I’ve have seen and dealt with ghosts as well. Mind you, I’m not trying to convince anyone, but simply share what I’ve experienced.

KCDAD- There is no direct scripture that says Satan was an angel that rebelled against God. But this is another topic that has a life of its own. I addressed this topic when I first joined this forum over a year ago, and it was extremely contentious. Tempers flared and the “flesh” often got in the way of a productive debate/discussion. It’s not something I want to go through again, but anyone can review what occurred in this forum’s archives. God is in complete control, but the “Luciferian” teachings imply otherwise.

In Revelations 12:10 says, “...for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan often tries to get at us with accusations before God so he can have his way with us. He will petition the Father for a right to do something. If Satan was an arch enemy of God that rebelled, then why would he petition the Lord for anything? As in the Book of Job, Satan stood before God in his throne room to report what he observed on the Earth. Doesn't seem like he was banished from God's presence. God used Satan's hand to draw out Job's imperfections to make him perfect.



We find in Luke 22:31 Jesus knew what Satan was up to. Jesus only knew things through the Holy Spirit. A plausible explanation is that Satan petitioned the Father for Peter, similar to what he did in the Book of Job. “And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:[32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.”

 

[awitch]

Awitch-

As described in the Bible how Jesus and his disciples cast out demons, I have also taken part in that ministry, as have millions of other Christians around the world.

"millions" of other Christians? I'm surprised we don't hear more regularly about it on the nightly news. Would you mind disclosing the symptoms of possession and the process used to "cure" it? We're all the people you have cast demons out of Christian (or come from Christian families)?

I have seen many who were tormented by demonic spirits set free. I have seen cancers and other ailments cured as a result of delivering someone of demonic spirits.

I guess our HIPAA laws will prevent us from ever confirming their medical records.

Nor do chemicals cause a female to speak in a man’s voice

Just like a little Helium can increase the pitch of your voice, a heavy gas like sulfer hexaflouride can decrease the pitch your voice (or make a woman sound like a man).

or give them superhuman strength.

Adrenaline.

I have seen glimpses of demons in places and houses that I have participated in blessing. I’ve have seen and dealt with ghosts as well.

No photographic evidence I am supposing - like big boot and flying saucers. With the availability of technology like digital cameras, web cameras, traffic cams, security cams, cell phone cams, thermal cameras, satellite imaging, and other high definition recording devices, do you find it strange there is not a single even remotely verifiable instance of demons?

Mind you, I’m not trying to convince anyone, but simply share what I’ve experienced.

It's hard to be convinced unless someone actually has an experience. But even our senses are prone to error - hallucinations, optical illusions, or functionality of the ears and eyes, etc.

 

[KCDAD]

There is no direct scripture that says "Satan" is a being at all. The only time it used in reference to one is metaphorically... Jesus calling Peter or Judas Satan.

 

[Bobinator]

Casting out of devils, otherwise known as the deliverance ministry, is done in many Christian churches, like Pentecostal, Assembly of God, etc, not to mention many of the smaller churches you never hear about. It is usually found in churches that have the Holy Spirit baptism. I guess you have to be exposed to the Christian community outside of one’s own church to really know this and be active in the mission field. Most people don’t know that there are millions of Christians in mainland China, probably more so than in the United States. You don't hear about them because they’re in underground churches, hiding from the government which is known for imprisoning Christians for decades for following Christ. We know some of them. But every country in the world has Christians you never hear about except thru the grapevine, or in Christian magazines and publications. There are many Christians in the Middle East as well, and they are persecuted heavily. Every once in a while you hear stories of miracles they perform or are a part of.

Regarding medical records, there are a number of them out there, but as scientist/doctors, such things often disregard them as flukes of nature, or base them on something scientific they’re still trying to figure out. Many people would rather not believe in God. It’s the same as the Big Bang Theory and evolution. I personally know of 2 people in my city that were raised from the dead by people associated with my church. One came back to life in front of the paramedics and firefighters after being dead for over 45 minutes after dropping dead from a massive heart attack. I’m told some of the paramedics and firefighters on the scene were converted because they witnessed it themselves and had declared the person dead. The other came back to life after over 1 ½ hours while her body lay in the hospital morgue. Both of them were prayed over by people in my small church.

Most of the miracles occur in churches that have the Holy Spirit and really believe and follow the Bible. Of course, if you don’t attend very often, especially one that operates in the spiritual gifts, you won’t be around to see it. Otherwise it’s just heresay. I will also add that churches that twist and distort the gospel to say what people want to hear do not have the power of the Holy Spirit operating in their church.

I never saw any canisters of gas laying around when we were praying over people. Just to add another thing, I’ve heard people speak foreign languages that were never learned while the demon(s) manifest. Don’t think there are drugs capable of that, no matter what century you live in.

I don’t think adrenaline would allow a 100 Ibs. girl to toss around 5 men, or allow a 120 Ib. man throw a 200 Ib. telephone pole over a 7’ fence like it was nothing, especially when he was in a state of calm. There are certain laws of physics that cannot be broken unless there is a spiritual force behind it. I witnessed the second example when I tended a ranch next to an insane asylum as a teen many years ago. I don’t think these were hallucinations either. There were many witnesses to these events.

 

[Bobinator]

"millions" of other Christians? I'm surprised we don't hear more regularly about it on the nightly news. Would you mind disclosing the symptoms of possession and the process used to "cure" it? We're all the people you have cast demons out of Christian (or come from Christian families)?

Oops! Forgot to reply to this one.

Probably the same reason you don't hear about Obama's affiliation with a know terrorist and that some of his economic advisers were the former CEO's of the financial institutions that created our current financial mess.
I know, the topic is unrelated, but the reasoning is the same, and it comes from the same kind of people that control the media and flow of information around the world. You think Katy Couric would run a pro-Christian story? You probably have a better chance getting Ahmadinajad to kiss a Jew.

Just because a person has a demon (or demons) doesn't mean they're possessed in the Hollywood sense of the word. Neither do people yield to their every whim. In fact, the term "inner demons" is closer to home than you realize. Having said this, I don't think I ever met a person who didn't have demons in some capacity. We all have 'em, and it's our job to clean house.

If you've got a problem with anger, then I'm absolutely certain you've got a demon of anger operating in your life, and may include unforgiveness, bitterness, violence, etc. This includes suicide as well. Demons can cause people to feel and behave in sinful ways. Prisons are filled with people that are loaded with spirits.

 

[XChristian]

Sorry, what does OP stand for?

 

[DerSchweik]

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[salida]

The "nightly news"? They are largely made up of left wing secularist and are clueless about casting out demons etc.

God allows Satan to do things only.

 

[awitch]

I know, the topic is unrelated, but the reasoning is the same, and it comes from the same kind of people that control the media and flow of information around the world. You think Katy Couric would run a pro-Christian story? You probably have a better chance getting Ahmadinajad to kiss a Jew.

Bobinator, I'm confused. Are you saying there is a liberal conspiracy to not report the "millions" of cases of demon possession and that all of these churches are all hidden, underground organizations?

So why don't demons possess someone famous or with political power? What do demons have to gain by possessing average Joe Shmoe? It doesn't really help the demon's credibility at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to make a big show out of it and let the world see that yes, demons exist, they can possess anyone, and look how powerful they are?

You also mentioned that demon possession has identical symptoms as mental illness or other physical diseases. What was your criteria for distinguishing who was actually medically/mentally ill, and who was possessed?

 

[Radagast]

So why don't demons possess someone famous or with political power? ...

Most Christians view demonic possession as quite rare.

 

[KCDAD]

Most Christians view demonic possession as quite rare.

I'd like to see what data you used to determine "most" and "quite rare". I would suggest that MOST Christians consider demonic possession preposterous.

 

[Bobinator]

Bobinator, I'm confused. Are you saying there is a liberal conspiracy to not report the "millions" of cases of demon possession and that all of these churches are all hidden, underground organizations?

So why don't demons possess someone famous or with political power? What do demons have to gain by possessing average Joe Shmoe? It doesn't really help the demon's credibility at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to make a big show out of it and let the world see that yes, demons exist, they can possess anyone, and look how powerful they are?

You also mentioned that demon possession has identical symptoms as mental illness or other physical diseases. What was your criteria for distinguishing who was actually medically/mentally ill, and who was possessed?

Not a conspiracy. Demonic influence or demonization is intangible. The secular world would mainly pass it off as some form of mental illness or condition. Even many Christians fail to recognize some of the signs or demonic activity.

What I also said was that there are millions of Christians around the world we are not exposed to that are operating in the gifts of the spirit. China was just one example.

How do you know our politicians and other famous people are not being guided and directed by demonic forces? At any rate, making decisions for personal power and wealth at the people's expense is fulfilling Satans desires. Man's worse enemy is himself and the desires of the flesh.

Satan's power comes from deception. It is not in his best interest for the world to know of his existence, much less his day-to-day influence and activities in and around people. As Radagast said, possession is quite rare. However, people yielding to the devil is quite the opposite.

Having a demon (or demons) doesn't make someone possessed. However, it does give them the urge to commit sin, or at least puts thoughts and desires in their "melon."

In the Bible, we find that Jesus healed many of being deaf and dumb by casting out a spirit. People in my church have done the same on the mission field.

 

[awitch]

The secular world would mainly pass it off as some form of mental illness or condition.

How do you distinguish between true mental illness or condition and demons? Do you have a doctorate? What makes you and the people of your church qualified?

How do you know our politicians and other famous people are not being guided and directed by demonic forces?

The lack of evidence.

[qoute]However, people yielding to the devil is quite the opposite.

Having a demon (or demons) doesn't make someone possessed. However, it does give them the urge to commit sin, or at least puts thoughts and desires in their "melon."[/quote]

So what's your opinion of personal responsibility? Is, "the devil made me do it" a valid excuse? Why not?

In the Bible, we find that Jesus healed many of being deaf and dumb by casting out a spirit. People in my church have done the same on the mission field.

OK, so were you able to identify any spirits? What was the process of casting them out? What training did you receive to do so?