Would you pray for Putin?

[Terek]

You certainly know that Christ was called "the friend of sinners and tax collectors" . Not without reason - Jesus hung out with tax collector (Mt 9:10-11, Mk 2:15-16, L 5:29-30), he set one of them as an example in the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee (L 18:10-14), and appointed a tax collector, Matthew, as his disciple. (Mt 9:9, Mk 2:14, L 5:27-28).
It's easy to talk about it theoretically - after all, nowadays such tax collectors are not associated with very negatively by most people, and even those who don't like them do not have such a bad opinion of them as the ancient Jews had of their tax collectors. However, do we realize how controversial these words and actions were?
Let us imagine the person we hate the most, someone who has done us the most harm, and now let us try to pray about him. We can also imagine someone we do not know personally, but who we know does evil. For me, such a man will be Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. He attacked an independent state for no reason, bringing death to tens of thousands of innocent people and suffering to tens of millions. Of course, Russian Patriarch Kirill and Putin's supporters can easily pray for him, but that is not the point. Also, if for someone the war in Ukraine is an abstract topic, they can pray for him, because just hearing that "Putin is killing people" is something completely different from seeing the effects of his actions with one's own eyes, listening to the testimonies of the victims of the uprising and constantly pondering over the scale of this evil, not to mention experiencing the effects of his actions firsthand. But what if someone knows and feels how bad the war in Ukraine is? Or has even suffered from it? Could he really sincerely pray for Putin to turn from his evil path? I honestly admit that as an outsider, although a very attentive observer, I simply couldn't do it.
Someone might say: "I'll pray for Putin, because if he converts and ends the war, all the innocent people will benefit." Okay, but could you pray for him just for his own benefit? Let's assume that 10 years have passed. Putin has conquered all of Ukraine, achieving all of his goals, including the extermination of "resistant" Ukrainians. Now he is old, senile, and sits in a very luxurious nursing home. He has been removed from government and no longer has any power - political or moral. In other words: No one will benefit in the slightest from his change of heart and repentance. Would you still pray for him? After all, what good is it if he repents if it doesn't undo the evil he has done? What's more, it will mean that all the suffering and pain of his victims will go completely unpunished forever. And in such a case, could God punish those who acted on his orders, e.g. ordinary Russian soldiers, in a situation where the main person responsible will go unpunished? Especially since many of them will not even live to the end of the war to regret it, or a victorious war will strengthen them in the belief that their crimes have been rewarded.
Of course, the above question is directed to people who follow the conflict in Ukraine and feel anger because of the unimaginable evil that is taking place there. As I have already written, if for someone this is an abstract topic, then they cannot understand the scale of evil done by Putin and instead can refer in the comment to the examples that appeal to them the most.

I encourage discussion!

 

[Zaha Torte]

You certainly know that Christ was called "the friend of sinners and tax collectors" . Not without reason - Jesus hung out with tax collector (Mt 9:10-11, Mk 2:15-16, L 5:29-30), he set one of them as an example in the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee (L 18:10-14), and appointed a tax collector, Matthew, as his disciple. (Mt 9:9, Mk 2:14, L 5:27-28).
It's easy to talk about it theoretically - after all, nowadays such tax collectors are not associated with very negatively by most people, and even those who don't like them do not have such a bad opinion of them as the ancient Jews had of their tax collectors. However, do we realize how controversial these words and actions were?
Let us imagine the person we hate the most, someone who has done us the most harm, and now let us try to pray about him. We can also imagine someone we do not know personally, but who we know does evil. For me, such a man will be Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. He attacked an independent state for no reason, bringing death to tens of thousands of innocent people and suffering to tens of millions. Of course, Russian Patriarch Kirill and Putin's supporters can easily pray for him, but that is not the point. Also, if for someone the war in Ukraine is an abstract topic, they can pray for him, because just hearing that "Putin is killing people" is something completely different from seeing the effects of his actions with one's own eyes, listening to the testimonies of the victims of the uprising and constantly pondering over the scale of this evil, not to mention experiencing the effects of his actions firsthand. But what if someone knows and feels how bad the war in Ukraine is? Or has even suffered from it? Could he really sincerely pray for Putin to turn from his evil path? I honestly admit that as an outsider, although a very attentive observer, I simply couldn't do it.
Someone might say: "I'll pray for Putin, because if he converts and ends the war, all the innocent people will benefit." Okay, but could you pray for him just for his own benefit? Let's assume that 10 years have passed. Putin has conquered all of Ukraine, achieving all of his goals, including the extermination of "resistant" Ukrainians. Now he is old, senile, and sits in a very luxurious nursing home. He has been removed from government and no longer has any power - political or moral. In other words: No one will benefit in the slightest from his change of heart and repentance. Would you still pray for him? After all, what good is it if he repents if it doesn't undo the evil he has done? What's more, it will mean that all the suffering and pain of his victims will go completely unpunished forever. And in such a case, could God punish those who acted on his orders, e.g. ordinary Russian soldiers, in a situation where the main person responsible will go unpunished? Especially since many of them will not even live to the end of the war to regret it, or a victorious war will strengthen them in the belief that their crimes have been rewarded.
Of course, the above question is directed to people who follow the conflict in Ukraine and feel anger because of the unimaginable evil that is taking place there. As I have already written, if for someone this is an abstract topic, then they cannot understand the scale of evil done by Putin and instead can refer in the comment to the examples that appeal to them the most.

I encourage discussion!

The Lord Jesus Christ suffered and died for all because He loves us all.

We should pray that all world leaders - indeed all people - resist Satan and turn to Christ.

 

[Elongated]

You certainly know that Christ was called "the friend of sinners and tax collectors" . Not without reason - Jesus hung out with tax collector (Mt 9:10-11, Mk 2:15-16, L 5:29-30), he set one of them as an example in the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee (L 18:10-14), and appointed a tax collector, Matthew, as his disciple. (Mt 9:9, Mk 2:14, L 5:27-28).
It's easy to talk about it theoretically - after all, nowadays such tax collectors are not associated with very negatively by most people, and even those who don't like them do not have such a bad opinion of them as the ancient Jews had of their tax collectors. However, do we realize how controversial these words and actions were?
Let us imagine the person we hate the most, someone who has done us the most harm, and now let us try to pray about him. We can also imagine someone we do not know personally, but who we know does evil. For me, such a man will be Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. He attacked an independent state for no reason, bringing death to tens of thousands of innocent people and suffering to tens of millions. Of course, Russian Patriarch Kirill and Putin's supporters can easily pray for him, but that is not the point. Also, if for someone the war in Ukraine is an abstract topic, they can pray for him, because just hearing that "Putin is killing people" is something completely different from seeing the effects of his actions with one's own eyes, listening to the testimonies of the victims of the uprising and constantly pondering over the scale of this evil, not to mention experiencing the effects of his actions firsthand. But what if someone knows and feels how bad the war in Ukraine is? Or has even suffered from it? Could he really sincerely pray for Putin to turn from his evil path? I honestly admit that as an outsider, although a very attentive observer, I simply couldn't do it.
Someone might say: "I'll pray for Putin, because if he converts and ends the war, all the innocent people will benefit." Okay, but could you pray for him just for his own benefit? Let's assume that 10 years have passed. Putin has conquered all of Ukraine, achieving all of his goals, including the extermination of "resistant" Ukrainians. Now he is old, senile, and sits in a very luxurious nursing home. He has been removed from government and no longer has any power - political or moral. In other words: No one will benefit in the slightest from his change of heart and repentance. Would you still pray for him? After all, what good is it if he repents if it doesn't undo the evil he has done? What's more, it will mean that all the suffering and pain of his victims will go completely unpunished forever. And in such a case, could God punish those who acted on his orders, e.g. ordinary Russian soldiers, in a situation where the main person responsible will go unpunished? Especially since many of them will not even live to the end of the war to regret it, or a victorious war will strengthen them in the belief that their crimes have been rewarded.
Of course, the above question is directed to people who follow the conflict in Ukraine and feel anger because of the unimaginable evil that is taking place there. As I have already written, if for someone this is an abstract topic, then they cannot understand the scale of evil done by Putin and instead can refer in the comment to the examples that appeal to them the most.

I encourage discussion!

I pray for the victims of totalitarianism. Some people are simply evil (devil’s advocates) IMHO.

 

[High Fidelity]

We should pray for everyone, especially those hardest of heart.

 

[com7fy8]

especially those hardest of heart.

Love "hopes all things" > in 1 Corinthians 13:7. To me, this means God wants us to pray in love with hope for any person.

1 Timothy 2:1-4 >

"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:1-4)

This is "first of all" . . . how we pray for "all".

 

[com7fy8]

You certainly know that Christ was called "the friend of sinners and tax collectors" . Not without reason - Jesus hung out with tax collector (Mt 9:10-11, Mk 2:15-16, L 5:29-30), he set one of them as an example in the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee (L 18:10-14), and appointed a tax collector, Matthew, as his disciple. (Mt 9:9, Mk 2:14, L 5:27-28).

And this is our example to follow > how Jesus so superior is so humble to care about any evil person.

theoretically

Yes, at best ones of us might be able to love and pray but in a theoretical way, not really meaning it in our hearts.

However . . . God is able to make us genuine, plus Jesus says an unforgiving person is in trouble . . . if someone, "from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses" > in Matthew 18:35. Of course, we might not consider Vladimir to be our "brother".

But Jesus on the cross, **~prayed~** >

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34)

Jesus was praying for ones still busy with hating and torturing and murdering Jesus who is God's own Son. And He is our example of how we love > as is possible with God in us >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Jesus was loving sweetly on the cross . . . sweetly pleasing our Father. He did not allow evil people to decide if He loved and forgave, or not, and if He was pleasing our Father. It is important not to allow evil people to have power over us to decide how we are and what we do.

nowadays such tax collectors are not associated with very negatively by most people, and even those who don't like them do not have such a bad opinion of them as the ancient Jews had of their tax collectors.

My info is that those Jewish tax collectors were using their job to get leverage to over-charge their fellow countrymen, so they could keep that extra money. And they could use Roman soldiers to enforce their collections. These days, though, at least in the United States, internal revenue collectors do not keep money from their collecting.

Let us imagine the person we hate the most, someone who has done us the most harm, and now let us try to pray about him.

As I have offered > Luke 23:34 shows how Jesus prayed for evil people, right while they were still busy with hating and torturing and murdering Jesus. And I note how a little later after this scripture, we see that one of those criminals next to Jesus trusted in Jesus for salvation. So, I believe that prayer of Jesus got him to change, right there on the cross. Jesus knows how prayer can work. So, may God prove it

We can also imagine someone we do not know personally, but who we know does evil. For me, such a man will be Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. He attacked an independent state for no reason, bringing death to tens of thousands of innocent people and suffering to tens of millions.

And we have seen a sample of what certain Hamas people can do.

But I was told that certain recruits of ISIS saw how there was so much killing, and they left ISIS. So, I see it is possible that not all Hamas people and Russian soldiers do the same thing. We can pray for God to change and deliver people of these groups. And there are ones who can cut up and torture unborn people, right here in the United States. And there is psychological torture and terrorism of how people in America can hold love hostage in order to torment and weaken people to do what they want.

But what if someone knows and feels how bad the war in Ukraine is? Or has even suffered from it? Could he really sincerely pray for Putin to turn from his evil path?

Well, we see how Jesus loved people, right while He was still so suffering and being hated. And . . . another item > in His resurrection, Jesus still had those wounds, but they could not keep making Him suffer. So, like this . . . even if very horrible people have done things to us, in the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit's love we might still have wounds from our past, but God's almighty power of love can stop those wounds from making us keep on suffering. He does not have to "heal" them, but simply mature us in His love.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

By removing fear, God's love also puts away the "torment", so we do not keep suffering torment about our past things. So, I see it is not wise to keep suffering while blaming people who do not know how to love. Do not expect much from them!!

I honestly admit that as an outsider, although a very attentive observer, I simply couldn't do it.

But trust God to do what He can do with us. Then, discover.

could you pray for him just for his own benefit?

For real benefit . . . yes . . . he would be doing good to others, somehow, while being truly benefited by God. And Satan would no longer have him for Satanic stuff. This would be the perfect revenge against evil, to take Vladimir away from Satan's kingdom.

Now he is old, senile, and sits in a very luxurious nursing home. He has been removed from government and no longer has any power - political or moral. In other words: No one will benefit in the slightest from his change of heart and repentance. Would you still pray for him? After all, what good is it if he repents if it doesn't undo the evil he has done?

Well, if you have hope that prayer can change things, his praying would be able to change a thing or two.

What's more, it will mean that all the suffering and pain of his victims will go completely unpunished forever.

If Vladimir is changed into the likeness of Jesus, his old person has been executed but so that now he can be a new creation ( 2 Corinthians 5:17) pleasing to our Father like Jesus is. This is the point of salvation, right?

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

could God punish those who acted on his orders,

This is an interesting subject. People who can die fighting for Putin are very foolish people. And he could know they are so foolish, that some other tyrannical person could recruit them to die fighting to take down Vladimir!! So, he can't trust them, and war can be a way to get them all killed so someone else can't use them . . . against him.

ordinary Russian soldiers, in a situation where the main person responsible will go unpunished? Especially since many of them will not even live to the end of the war to regret it, or a victorious war will strengthen them in the belief that their crimes have been rewarded.

Not all Russian soldiers are alike. Some number of them are there, maybe, so Vladimir can get them killed and out of the way.

Of course, the above question is directed to people who follow the conflict in Ukraine and feel anger because of the unimaginable evil that is taking place there.

And there is Hamas, and, and . . .

 

[Elongated]

And this is our example to follow > how Jesus so superior is so humble to care about any evil person.

Yes, at best ones of us might be able to love and pray but in a theoretical way, not really meaning it in our hearts.

However . . . God is able to make us genuine, plus Jesus says an unforgiving person is in trouble . . . if someone, "from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses" > in Matthew 18:35. Of course, we might not consider Vladimir to be our "brother".

But Jesus on the cross, **~prayed~** >

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34)

Jesus was praying for ones still busy with hating and torturing and murdering Jesus who is God's own Son. And He is our example of how we love > as is possible with God in us >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Jesus was loving sweetly on the cross . . . sweetly pleasing our Father. He did not allow evil people to decide if He loved and forgave, or not, and if He was pleasing our Father. It is important not to allow evil people to have power over us to decide how we are and what we do.

My info is that those Jewish tax collectors were using their job to get leverage to over-charge their fellow countrymen, so they could keep that extra money. And they could use Roman soldiers to enforce their collections. These days, though, at least in the United States, internal revenue collectors do not keep money from their collecting.

As I have offered > Luke 23:34 shows how Jesus prayed for evil people, right while they were still busy with hating and torturing and murdering Jesus. And I note how a little later after this scripture, we see that one of those criminals next to Jesus trusted in Jesus for salvation. So, I believe that prayer of Jesus got him to change, right there on the cross. Jesus knows how prayer can work. So, may God prove it

And we have seen a sample of what certain Hamas people can do.

But I was told that certain recruits of ISIS saw how there was so much killing, and they left ISIS. So, I see it is possible that not all Hamas people and Russian soldiers do the same thing. We can pray for God to change and deliver people of these groups. And there are ones who can cut up and torture unborn people, right here in the United States. And there is psychological torture and terrorism of how people in America can hold love hostage in order to torment and weaken people to do what they want.

Well, we see how Jesus loved people, right while He was still so suffering and being hated. And . . . another item > in His resurrection, Jesus still had those wounds, but they could not keep making Him suffer. So, like this . . . even if very horrible people have done things to us, in the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit's love we might still have wounds from our past, but God's almighty power of love can stop those wounds from making us keep on suffering. He does not have to "heal" them, but simply mature us in His love.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

By removing fear, God's love also puts away the "torment", so we do not keep suffering torment about our past things. So, I see it is not wise to keep suffering while blaming people who do not know how to love. Do not expect much from them!!

But trust God to do what He can do with us. Then, discover.

For real benefit . . . yes . . . he would be doing good to others, somehow, while being truly benefited by God. And Satan would no longer have him for Satanic stuff. This would be the perfect revenge against evil, to take Vladimir away from Satan's kingdom.

Well, if you have hope that prayer can change things, his praying would be able to change a thing or two.

If Vladimir is changed into the likeness of Jesus, his old person has been executed but so that now he can be a new creation ( 2 Corinthians 5:17) pleasing to our Father like Jesus is. This is the point of salvation, right?

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

This is an interesting subject. People who can die fighting for Putin are very foolish people. And he could know they are so foolish, that some other tyrannical person could recruit them to die fighting to take down Vladimir!! So, he can't trust them, and war can be a way to get them all killed so someone else can't use them . . . against him.

Not all Russian soldiers are alike. Some number of them are there, maybe, so Vladimir can get them killed and out of the way.

And there is Hamas, and, and . . .

It’s being honest. One of my disagreements with my evangelical brethren is the blatant hypocrisy of exhorting (disingenuously) people to pray for their enemies while spewing hatred. Let me know when Putin or other Antichrists has a Saul of Tarsi’s experience.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It’s being honest. One of my disagreements with my evangelical brethren is the blatant hypocrisy of exhorting (disingenuously) people to pray for their enemies while spewing hatred. Let me know when Putin or other Antichrists has a Saul of Tarsi’s experience.

I share your sentiments about Putin. And I know all to well the anxiety I experience seeing the hypocrisy in the Church today.

Having said that, God does not desire the death of the wicked, but that the wicked repent and live.

According to an ancient tradition associated with St. Mary Magdalene, she once had the opportunity to preach the Gospel at Caesar's table. During the dinner, so the tradition goes, the emperor mocked Mary's faith by picking up an egg from the table and saying, "Your Christ no more rose from the dead than this egg would turn red in my hand." At that moment the egg turned red. This is why the Christians of the East have traditionally dyed eggs red for Easter, a tradition that eventually came to the West and is the basis for coloring eggs for Easter still today--it is also why traditional icons of St. Mary Magdalene often depict her holding an egg dyed red.

Did Caesar convert? No. But many of Caesar's household did. Whether the story of St. Mary here is merely apocryphal legend or not, St. Paul himself writes in his letter to the Philippians that members of the imperial house came to faith (Philippians 4:22).

We also have, in the words of the Prophet Isaiah, where God will restore Egypt and Assyria as His own people,

"In that day Israel be the third with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, whom the LORD of hosts has blessed saying, 'Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance." - Isaiah 19:24

Egypt and Assyria, the two ancient world powers who were notorious for their exploitation and antagonism against Israel, true enemies of God's people, are spoken of as restored and redeemed peoples, who will come to know YHWH as God. Early Christians saw in this prophecy Christ and His Gospel, as the Gospel went forth out of Jerusalem to the nations, and among the Egyptians in the South and the Assyrians/Chaldeans/Persians of the East; as God, through the Messiah--through His Church--went and stood in the midst of the nations, proclaiming the love and victory of God, resulting in many coming to know Israel's God.

God is the God of reconciliation, the God who takes the worst of the worst, and makes it good. Turning a land of arid thorns into a land of bountiful life, a land flowing with milk and honey. Who takes mountains and sets them low, and raises up the valleys; who raises up slaves to be the greatest, and sets kings and princes as servants.

The Cross stands at the center of the universe and time, the intersection of all things; where death itself is nailed to the cross, and God Himself defeats every principality and power through the suffering and resurrection of the Messiah, "making a public spectacle of them" as St. Paul says to the Colossians.

We should not, therefore, excuse evil--nor defend the evil of tyrants. The Church must declare the unacceptability of tyrants, at the same time, like St. Ambrose and the Prophet Nathan, telling the powerful to repent and wear sackcloth.

Neither does this mean that we say that there can be no temporal consequences for evil--even should a murderer repent, they must still face the judgement of the court. So it is true also of tyrants--for the penitential heart does not despise temporal consequences of their actions, but recognizes them as the just recompense for their actions--trusting and hoping in God's mercy, and also in grief knowing that temporal justice is still meted out--as the remorseful brigand crucified beside Jesus himself recognizes.

Thus the Church prays even for wicked tyrants, not in support of their tyrannies, but as a voice of conscience, as a voice calling for repentance, and as a voice declaring the victory of God over and against the powers of this world--and the life-giving power of the Crucified and Risen Christ. For both the lowly and oppressed, and for the oppressor who must kneel at the Cross and weep.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lukaris]

I always pray the golden rule ( Matthew 7:12), the Lord’s commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40), & the Lord of the harvest ( Matthew 9:36-38) before I pray especially the Lord’s Prayer ( Matthew 6:9-13). While I often drag myself down with my sinful disposition ( Isaiah 64:6 etc.), I keep praying ( Luke 18:1 etc.). I try to pray for anyone and everyone.

 

[com7fy8]

Jesus died for Vladimir Putin.

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2)

So, Jesus is enough to make propitiation for all of Vladimir's sins. Jesus is God's own Son so perfectly pleasing to our Father, so He could sweetly please our Father with His sacrifice for "the whole world" . . . not only for Vladimir.

We are the ones who are limited about whom we are ready to love and forgive. But Jesus isn't limited like we can be.

However, God does command us to follow the example of Jesus on the cross >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

 

[linux.poet]

Would you still pray for him? After all, what good is it if he repents if it doesn't undo the evil he has done? What's more, it will mean that all the suffering and pain of his victims will go completely unpunished forever. And in such a case, could God punish those who acted on his orders, e.g. ordinary Russian soldiers, in a situation where the main person responsible will go unpunished? Especially since many of them will not even live to the end of the war to regret it, or a victorious war will strengthen them in the belief that their crimes have been rewarded.

I think I understand your emotion a bit. Poland has been overrun by Russia a number of times in history. If you are in Europe and you see that war in Ukraine firsthand in a few countries over when it also happened to your country, it's harder to forgive. The trauma is also more real when you see it yourself.

Wanting the people who are traumatizing you to go to hell is a very real human emotion that I may have actually expressed in my past. It is easy to hate those who hurt us, as that is the default sin nature response. It takes the work of the Holy Spirit to reject it.

Someone might say: "I'll pray for Putin, because if he converts and ends the war, all the innocent people will benefit."

I would be tempted to pray this prayer, that the Lord would open his eyes.

I think you're missing a key part of this: if Vladimir Putin were to convert to Christianity at any point, his eyes would be opened to all of the crimes that he has done and the shame and guilt would be excruciating. The memories would be a nightmarish burden that he would have to bear for the rest of his life. It might not be as bad as an eternity in hell in terms of torture, but even as a elderly individual in a nursing home, he would benefit from going through all of that.

Not to mention that, if he was capable of writing anything, his conversion would be a huge witness to Russia for Christ. But you said "solely for his own benefit". It's better to live a living nightmare of shame and regret and trauma for 5-10 years than an eternity of torture away from God, so yes, I'd rather he got through the former than the latter. He might as well learn how much pain he is causing others. Constructive learning pain is better than destructive pain meted out to people with no awareness of how wrong they are.

Jesus was loving sweetly on the cross . . . sweetly pleasing our Father.

I think there was some grit involved, given the levels of pain his body was going through. Every second must have been excruciating.

For real benefit . . . yes . . . he would be doing good to others, somehow, while being truly benefited by God. And Satan would no longer have him for Satanic stuff. This would be the perfect revenge against evil, to take Vladimir away from Satan's kingdom.

I agree with this.

I believe in Pre-millennialism, so a Putin that embraces Biblical models of political leadership in a future millennial kingdom would be a serious win against Satan, perhaps even literally.

 

[stevil]

Being an athiest, no. I don't think there is any value in prayer.

 

[Lukaris]

I would think a secularist sees hoping for better things for others is a healthy sentiment. Prayers to God having this sentiment, I would think would be seen as being basically the same from a secular viewpoint.

 

[stevil]

I would think a secularist sees hoping for better things for others is a healthy sentiment. Prayers to God having this sentiment, I would think would be seen as being basically the same from a secular viewpoint.

The question was specifically about prayer, not hoping.
Hoping is also worthless if you don't then take action.
Prayer is a form of action, but it is as worthless as crossing your fingers.

 

[Lukaris]

The question was specifically about prayer, not hoping.
Hoping is also worthless if you don't then take action.
Prayer is a form of action, but it is as worthless as crossing your fingers.

Actually in Christianity hope is involved with prayer ( 1 Corinthians 13:13 etc.). A person can apply basic CPR and save a life with a general secular hopeful disposition with a secular mindset or a person can be a praying Christian and apply these same basic principles giving glory to God. Either way, it is all good and to limit general motivation, prayer, hope etc. seems ignorant.

 

[stevil]

Actually in Christianity hope is involved with prayer ( 1 Corinthians 13:13 etc.). A person can apply basic CPR and save a life with a general secular hopeful disposition with a secular mindset or a person can be a praying Christian and apply these same basic principles giving glory to God. Either way, it is all good and to limit general motivation, prayer, hope etc. seems ignorant.

Doing cpr is usefull

But the question of. Would you pray for....
My answer is no, I see no point in praying for anything. Is it like asking Santa for a gift? I don't see why anyone, even Christians, would pray for something

 

[phuong nguyen]

The act of praying for Putin becomes extremely difficult because his actions bring so much human suffering to the world. The subject of forgiveness usually becomes simpler when we are not directly affected by a situation yet it turns into an unreachable goal whenever we witness the direct consequences of harm. Prayer functions as an instrument to transform ourselves and discover serenity apart from accomplishing adjustments in other individuals. Peace remains a hope even when we cannot alter past events while hoping for redemption no matter how difficult the process turns out to be.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hoping is also worthless if you don't then take action.

Should the powerless abandon hope in the face of severe adversity?

Note, I'm not saying you should pray, or you should think prayer does something. As an atheist of course you wouldn't.

I'm more interested in a perspective that views hope as, in itself, worthless. For those who can't or are unable to take action, if hope is worthless, that seems pretty dim.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Robban]

You certainly know that Christ was called "the friend of sinners and tax collectors" . Not without reason - Jesus hung out with tax collector (Mt 9:10-11, Mk 2:15-16, L 5:29-30), he set one of them as an example in the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee (L 18:10-14), and appointed a tax collector, Matthew, as his disciple. (Mt 9:9, Mk 2:14, L 5:27-28).
It's easy to talk about it theoretically - after all, nowadays such tax collectors are not associated with very negatively by most people, and even those who don't like them do not have such a bad opinion of them as the ancient Jews had of their tax collectors. However, do we realize how controversial these words and actions were?
Let us imagine the person we hate the most, someone who has done us the most harm, and now let us try to pray about him. We can also imagine someone we do not know personally, but who we know does evil. For me, such a man will be Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. He attacked an independent state for no reason, bringing death to tens of thousands of innocent people and suffering to tens of millions. Of course, Russian Patriarch Kirill and Putin's supporters can easily pray for him, but that is not the point. Also, if for someone the war in Ukraine is an abstract topic, they can pray for him, because just hearing that "Putin is killing people" is something completely different from seeing the effects of his actions with one's own eyes, listening to the testimonies of the victims of the uprising and constantly pondering over the scale of this evil, not to mention experiencing the effects of his actions firsthand. But what if someone knows and feels how bad the war in Ukraine is? Or has even suffered from it? Could he really sincerely pray for Putin to turn from his evil path? I honestly admit that as an outsider, although a very attentive observer, I simply couldn't do it.
Someone might say: "I'll pray for Putin, because if he converts and ends the war, all the innocent people will benefit." Okay, but could you pray for him just for his own benefit? Let's assume that 10 years have passed. Putin has conquered all of Ukraine, achieving all of his goals, including the extermination of "resistant" Ukrainians. Now he is old, senile, and sits in a very luxurious nursing home. He has been removed from government and no longer has any power - political or moral. In other words: No one will benefit in the slightest from his change of heart and repentance. Would you still pray for him? After all, what good is it if he repents if it doesn't undo the evil he has done? What's more, it will mean that all the suffering and pain of his victims will go completely unpunished forever. And in such a case, could God punish those who acted on his orders, e.g. ordinary Russian soldiers, in a situation where the main person responsible will go unpunished? Especially since many of them will not even live to the end of the war to regret it, or a victorious war will strengthen them in the belief that their crimes have been rewarded.
Of course, the above question is directed to people who follow the conflict in Ukraine and feel anger because of the unimaginable evil that is taking place there. As I have already written, if for someone this is an abstract topic, then they cannot understand the scale of evil done by Putin and instead can refer in the comment to the examples that appeal to them the most.

I encourage discussion!

The op asks a simple question yet so many long, long replies.

I thank God for the President of the Russian Federation.

That´s it, I can see no ground for all the hate and contempt.

 

[Lukaris]

The op asks a simple question yet so many long, long replies.

I thank God for the President of the Russian Federation.

That´s it, I can see no ground for all the hate and contempt.

The OP encouraged discussion so it happened. Replies were given and discussion developed. Apparently some might see Putin’s mark on the world as good as sliced bread and others not so ( me included). Personally, I pray that he steps down, the war ends & Ukraine & Russia have peace, sovereignty, & cooperation from here on.