What does “non-denominational” mean to you (pros and cons)?

[JimB]

Some people pride themselves in being “non-denominational.” The other day I got a call from someone who wanted to know if the Vineyard was a denomination. When I said it was (sort of) they informed me that they could not attend our church because it was a denomination. They were looking for a “non-denominational” church.

“Any non-denominational church?” I asked.

Yes, she said. She didn’t believe in denominations.

“Well,” I said, “a denomination at least says a bit about what the church believes. But a non-denominational church can believe anything; you never know what you’re getting with a non-denom.”

She still preferred a non-denominational church.

So, I recommended a church across town that prides itself as being non-denominational. Only, it’s a fundamentalist split off the local LDS church that believes in polygamy, that their members are little “gods” destined to inherit a planet someday, that Lucifer is the brother of Jesus, and that you can only be baptized if you believe these (plus a weird few other) things. But at least they’re non-denominational.

“But how would you know if I hadn’t told you?” I asked. “At least you know what the Vineyard (or for that matter Baptist, or Assembly of God, or Presbyterian, or Methodist, or Nazarene, or any other denom) believes and values without learning it after the fact or without getting burned after you join up.”

So, for the sake of discussion, what are the pros and cons of denominations and what are the pros and cons of non-denominational churches.

~Jim

Love God. Love people. Period. ​

 

[imperfectchristian]

Lol!!!!!!! That is too funny.

Non-denominational usually means a charismatic or baptist like church. It is basically just a sales pitch and doesn't mean anything more than that. I prefer the term inter-denominational (which our church is) which means we adhere to basic orthodox christian teaching...still that gets really confusing for people at times as well.

I actually really like one of the local presbyterian churches though I would not consider my self a fully reformed believer. Every individual church is different. Denom, or non denom.

 

[Big Drew]

Yeah, nondenom makes no sense to me...like IC said, my experience is they're usually Baptist, Charismatic or a combination of the two...I went to one for a while that was Charismatic...the pastor was raised in the Church of God (Cleveland) and then worked for Benny Hinn for several years before he started the church.

Seems to me that nondenom has some issues...as you said, Jim, you never know what you're gonna get until you go check them out...then they may have a pastor with a God complex, because he's made his own rules and thinks he can lord over the congregation...of course this can happen in denominational churches as well...but at least in denominations there's the possibility of getting the domineering pastor out of there because he doesn't think it's HIS church.

I prefer denominational structure.

 

[_Sonnie]

I'd agree with the others' assessments of non-denominational churches, which is what I attend. A few points about our particular church which (in my opinion) are positives:

*There isn't a hierarchy structure which sends extra funds out of the local church for district, general, regional, and national superintendents' salaries, retirement funds, or funds for their kids for Christmas and schooling (not that I'm against those things, just the way it's done). Money that is saved in that area goes to local missions and to give some compensation to people who work for the church.

*A lot of ministry is local. We have missionaries overseas, but we also focus heavily in our local area (more so than the denominational churches I've personally attended), supporting local ministries as well as providing services to the public.

The cons:

*While the church makes readily available their core doctrine, it took some time to find the little nuances that sometimes make or break denominations.

*The church is run by about 8 men who have total control and say over what goes on at any time. This could be a huge potential problem. Judgments can be very arbitrary and based on whether or not you have a relationship personally with one or more of these people. IMO, this is not anywhere ideal. So far though, it has worked in that the church leadership is full of grace and understanding, and they truly love people. If they were not that way, it could be disastrous.


Positives about denominational churches (based on my experience):

*You know exactly what they believe, even about minor doctrines. Usually they have a manual that anyone can have access to.

*If you have to make a move to a different location or if you're traveling, you can find a church of the same denomination and know what the church's values are immediately.

Cons (based on my experience):

*An exorbitant amount of local money gets filtered out of the church and up a triangle of the church's hierarchy.

*The denominations I have attended had little local ministry and focused almost entirely on missionaries to other countries (I support having ministries to other countries, but also recognize the need to have local ministry). It was just too out of balance.

*There can be a tendency to elevate their manual (denominational doctrines) above the Law of Love. Sometimes the pastor and/or church board will enforce parts of the manual when it's convenient for their cause or will manipulate the manual, giving loose interpretation to either support their cause, or deny someone else's, or they might ignore the manual in favor of having their own way.

 

[romans81]

Well...=p I look at it as a stand against division. Our views may not agree on some matters, but they should not keep us from loving each other as brothers and sisters, and even working together. Of course, there are also issues and views that I won't compromise (for example: that Jesus is God). Regarding things like that, you do make a good point about the positives of denomination.

 

[imperfectchristian]

To answer the question directly

Denominational pros:

- oversight and accountability to a larger body of believers (helps keep the weird and off the wall at bay)
- Theology is usually more well thought out (helps to minimize error)
- directly identifying with a larger body of believers has its fellowship benefits as well as a sense of being part of and working directly with a larger body
- can be helpful strategically as well as logistically when planting new congregations

Denom Cons:

- bureaucracy...everything tends to be reactive vs. proactive (pet doctrines are painfully slow to change, changes in the way the church does things takes longer to improve upon)
- unique culture and tradition can form inside denoms that can stifle growth and overtime cause tension, division and can get in the way of the message)
- Tends to be much less room for open minded thinking...the bigger the denomination, the more opinionated they become and the harder it makes it to change those opinions when they are not substantiated)
- Can become more doctrinal centered than Gospel centered
- Can make some things overly complicated

Non-denom pros:

- No oversight lording over and subtly dictating a local group of believers
- More money stays locally within the church which means greater flexibility
- pastors feel influenced to follow a doctrine or a doctrinal trend
- Potential for more variety and inclusiveness across the Christian spectrum
- Conveys a message to outsiders that the church is more about promoting Jesus than furthering a denominational agenda
- More freedom
- More localized

Nondenom cons:

- Little or no outside connection to a greater body of believers
- Isolation from a larger body can lend itself to causing more imbalance and extreme views
- No broader doctrinal accountability
- The x factor (not knowing where a church stands) can make people leary of ever visiting
- Does not benefit from the growth of a larger body of believers
- Can become somewhat isolationists

Those are some pros and cons that come to mind. I'm sure I could come up with more if I thought a while about it.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

. . .So, for the sake of discussion, what are the pros and cons of denominations and what are the pros and cons of non-denominational churches . . .

This is a very very simple explanation.
Non-denomination are Arminian.
Arminian is a denomination.
Therefore a non-denomination is a denomination.
Where they got "non" beats me.

 

[imperfectchristian]

This is a very very simple explanation.
Non-denomination are Arminian.
Arminian is a denomination.
Therefore a non-denomination is a denomination.
Where they got "non" beats me.

I know of several Charismatic reformed non-denoms.

 

[Faulty]

My church, Calvary Chapel, considers themselves a non-denominational church. Sometimes I wonder why, but then I realize I really couldn't care less.

I consider myself non-denominational because I can (and have) attend a baptist church without agreeing with them on every gift of the Spirit matter, and I can (and have) attend a Weslyan church and not agree on their doctrine on the loss of salvation, and I can (and have) attend a charismatic church and not have to agree that I must bark like a dog to be "spiritual".

So, that's what non-denominational means to me, that I'm not bound to the beliefs of any particular denomination.

 

[Faulty]

I know of several Charismatic reformed non-denoms.

Yup. I've known quite a few reformed non-denom churches as well.

 

[Big Drew]

This is a very very simple explanation.
Non-denomination are Arminian.
Arminian is a denomination.
Therefore a non-denomination is a denomination.
Where they got "non" beats me.

Not necessarily...for example, Parkside Church in Cleveland, OH is nondenom...and everyone that knows Alister Begg (the pastor) knows he is Reformed.

 

[Chaplain David]

Some people pride themselves in being “non-denominational.” The other day I got a call from someone who wanted to know if the Vineyard was a denomination. When I said it was (sort of) they informed me that they could not attend our church because it was a denomination. They were looking for a “non-denominational” church.

“Any non-denominational church?” I asked.

Yes, she said. She didn’t believe in denominations.

“Well,” I said, “a denomination at least says a bit about what the church believes. But a non-denominational church can believe anything; you never know what you’re getting with a non-denom.”

She still preferred a non-denominational church.

So, I recommended a church across town that prides itself as being non-denominational. Only, it’s a fundamentalist split off the local LDS church that believes in polygamy, that their members are little “gods” destined to inherit a planet someday, that Lucifer is the brother of Jesus, and that you can only be baptized if you believe these (plus a weird few other) things. But at least they’re non-denominational.

“But how would you know if I hadn’t told you?” I asked. “At least you know what the Vineyard (or for that matter Baptist, or Assembly of God, or Presbyterian, or Methodist, or Nazarene, or any other denom) believes and values without learning it after the fact or without getting burned after you join up.”

So, for the sake of discussion, what are the pros and cons of denominations and what are the pros and cons of non-denominational churches.

~Jim

Love God. Love people. Period. ​

Well I'll punt with this. I believe that non-denominational is really a denomination of it's own but depends more on the styling of one particular church doctrine than several or the mainstream. Although I am a Baptist I enjoy visiting other churches so in that regard, consider myself multi-denominational. I have no problems with someone being of a denomination or non. It's worship that's important and who that worship is directed to and through. Amen to the siggy.

 

[JimB]

I have been a minister in two denominations, Assemblies of God and Vineyard. While I found the AOG to be more centralized and authoritarian, still I found a lot of liberty in both denoms. I pretty much was able to minister without supervision or control (within broad limits, of course). I did appreciate the fact that in a denomination I was accountable for what I believed and taught. Plus, being the member of a denomination afforded me the opportunity for fellowship with colleagues. That, to me, was a good thing.

I have noticed that pastors of churches touted as “non-denominational” are, themselves, members of some ministerial credentialing organization that requires of them adherence to a statement of faith and regular financial support. In that way, they are no different than the denominations they deplore. In this way, IMO, they are guilty (and thus hypocritical) of the very thing they tell their members they are against.

~Jim

Love God. Love people. Period. ​

 

[JimB]

Well I'll punt with this. I believe that non-denominational is really a denomination of it's own but depends more on the styling of one particular church doctrine than several or the mainstream.

*****

I agree. There is no such thing as a non-denominational church. They are just non-denominational in name only.

~Jim

Love God. Love people. Period. ​

​

 

[ThePresbyteers]

I know of several Charismatic reformed non-denoms.

I visited a COG church, for curiosity, and I can see some not sure if they're saved so they walk up to the front to confirm themselves to get re-saved. They look like long time members of the church.
It's much easier to know God will keep his promises and leave it to that and move on. Why do armininas keep doubting everyday and re-saving themselves?

I don't know of a non-denomination church that are Biblically correct and not preach others to save themselves when Jesus does the work of saving. If there was I would check them out. I don't mind the extra creative bodily movements, myself. Nothing wrong with dancing but need to be done with respect.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

I believe the denomination "non-denominationalists" are benefiting from the growing angst against traditional denominations thereby receiving an important influx of the REAL denominations governing a lot of modern Christianity:

 

[ThePresbyteers]

I believe the denomination "non-denominationalists" are benefiting from the growing angst against traditional denominations thereby receiving an important influx of the REAL denominations governing a lot of modern Christianity:

They used my hard earned tax money to pay for Bush's useless unnecessary Iraqi war. I wonder if my 10% tithe is going to the upkeep of the minister's Rolls Royce and mansions. With all these different denominations, I don't think God requires tithing 500 different beliefs, truth or lies.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

Not necessarily...for example, Parkside Church in Cleveland, OH is nondenom...and everyone that knows Alister Begg (the pastor) knows he is Reformed.

Any examples in the Atlanta area?

 

[_Sonnie]

I have noticed that pastors of churches touted as “non-denominational” are, themselves, members of some ministerial credentialing organization that requires of them adherence to a statement of faith and regular financial support. In that way, they are no different than the denominations they deplore. In this way, IMO, they are guilty (and thus hypocritical) of the very thing they tell their members they are against.

~Jim

Love God. Love people. Period. ​

This is something I've personally been wondering about with our church. Because of the secretiveness of some things, it's been hard to know for certain about this, but sometimes our "leaders" let things slip that make a person think this might be the case. In this point I'm disappointed, but at this particular non-denom church, the sheer amount of ministry (physical, spiritual, psychological) that's given to local people is really what keeps me there.

That could be the same (and is in many) for denominational churches, unfortunately though, not any that I've attended. There are pros and cons for each. Sometimes it comes down to what's most important for us and if there is a place in a particular church for the gifts that God's given us.

 

[Big Drew]

Any examples in the Atlanta area?

Don't know...I'm sure there are several Reformed Baptist churches in Atlanta...and really, what's the difference between nondenoms and Baptists? They both pride themselves on autonomy and you never really know what to expect from one church to the next...