What Do You Think Of These Kenneth Hagin Video Clips? Disturbing?

[Entertaining_Angels]

except this stuff didn't happen at a distance for me. It was very up close and personal so perhaps I have a different take on it.

Paul is quite clear, what is done is church needs to be done in a fitting or orderly way. Many of these are churches of disorder. There really is no other way to describe them. I truly believe they serve to self-edify and it is very true, if you've ever seen somebody become possessed by a demon (demons), doesn't look much different at all. I guess I just think of the wof-type church like mormons and jehovah's witness churches. Now that I'm away from these teachings and learning the history, it is interesting how these 'teachings' got started around the same time, have a number of similiarities and really aren't that different if you try to leave one of their churches.

But there are people I love in these churches and I continue to pray for them. I know God is working on a couple of them and is showing them His perfect Truth.

 

[holo]

My computer will not view the clips. Instead it wants to save them as a file to my documents that windows does not even recognize. Anybody know what the problem might be???

Probably satan in some form or another...

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

except this stuff didn't happen at a distance for me. It was very up close and personal so perhaps I have a different take on it.

Paul is quite clear, what is done is church needs to be done in a fitting or orderly way. Many of these are churches of disorder. There really is no other way to describe them. I truly believe they serve to self-edify and it is very true, if you've ever seen somebody become possessed by a demon (demons), doesn't look much different at all. I guess I just think of the wof-type church like mormons and jehovah's witness churches. Now that I'm away from these teachings and learning the history, it is interesting how these 'teachings' got started around the same time, have a number of similiarities and really aren't that different if you try to leave one of their churches.

But there are people I love in these churches and I continue to pray for them. I know God is working on a couple of them and is showing them His perfect Truth.

While I"m no longer in that church I saw it close up too. As far as I know scripture does not tell us that laughing hysterically is out of order in church. If you go to a church where it is "considered" out of order then it is...but if you go to a church where it is not considered out of order then it is not.

In my previous church, I would be considered out of order to wear a vale while praying but in the congregation I attend now, I am not.

There are certain thing scripture touches on, but laughter and joy and the physical activities that generally accompany such are not.

My experiance around it was very different. There were many that I personlly know who were healed in their inner man during some of these times. Things that professional counseling takes years to "maybe" fix and they charge a lot of money was gone in an instant. People who were depressed and full of anxiety were set free....I was one of them.

Of course I was one that never did really have the same physical reaction as everyone else. My Pastors at that time called me their "quite drunk". LOL. All I know is, I was set free from all the emotional bondage...even co-workers who knew nothing about what was going on at my church noticed a difference in me. Several stopped me and asked, "what has happened to you?", or my fave, "are you in love?". I would say, "YES!"

Again, I"m not saying anyone should act that way, however, we have no idea what is going on in their hearts and the changes God is making. I agree, much of the behavior is bizarre but I can't judge, I saw too much good. To each his own I guess

 

[Kelly]

Again, I"m not saying anyone should act that way, however, we have no idea what is going on in their hearts and the changes God is making. I agree, much of the behavior is bizarre but I can't judge, I saw too much good. To each his own I guess

Very good position, quaffer. I don't exhibit any gifts that I'm aware of ('cept love!) but some people in my church do. It used to freak me out but now I can't wait for wednesday services and friday upper room gatherings (pastor asked that sunday services be 'toned down' for seekers). I just like being around it. It's in no way as intense as the stuff we see on the videos, but intensity is a personal thing based on your previous experiences.

Raising hands during worship was intense to my wife, who was raised in a reserved Lutheran church. It all goes back to your worldview and how you react to those who behave differently than you are comfortable with.

 

[Tabfry]

I believe that there are many parts of the body of Christ. All of which have their own function and need. This, however, acting like animals, IN MY OPINION does not bring God glory. The only thing I can do is pray that God reveals to us all His Truth concerning this matter.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I believe that there are many parts of the body of Christ. All of which have their own function and need. This, however, acting like animals, IN MY OPINION does not bring God glory. The only thing I can do is pray that God reveals to us all His Truth concerning this matter.

Just a question: Is it out of order for children in play to act like animals? Are we not His children?

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

edited: sorry duplicate post

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

A few things come to mind here...

1 Peter 5
8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Galations 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.


Must admit, at the time, didn't seem like a blessing but since seeing other religions behaving like this (speaking in ecstatic tongues, making animal noises, being thrown backward, etc...) and having seen somebody become possessed after playing with a ouija board, you'll have a hard time convincing me that stuff is from God. Unfortunately, these people are in a fog and if we can just get them away from these influences, they can see more clearly. I believe that 100% because that is what it took for me.

I only ask, for anybody who is 'in' to these teachings, pray without ceasing...pray for God's Truth and only His truth to be revealed. Don't expect it overnight but be prepared, the road away from these teachings can be a painful one but God is ever faithful and always with you.

 

[Tabfry]

Just a question: Is it out of order for children in play to act like animals? Are we not His children?

I think this is a loaded question. No, it is not out or order for children to play and to act like animals. Is this form of worship that we see in the video acting? Is it playing? I don't claim to have the answer as to whether or not this is correct behavior. All I can attest to is my experience, feelings, and thoughts. I would not have participated at this service.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

A few things come to mind here...

1 Peter 5
8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Galations 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.


Must admit, at the time, didn't seem like a blessing but since seeing other religions behaving like this (speaking in ecstatic tongues, making animal noises, being thrown backward, etc...) and having seen somebody become possessed after playing with a ouija board, you'll have a hard time convincing me that stuff is from God. Unfortunately, these people are in a fog and if we can just get them away from these influences, they can see more clearly. I believe that 100% because that is what it took for me.

I only ask, for anybody who is 'in' to these teachings, pray without ceasing...pray for God's Truth and only His truth to be revealed. Don't expect it overnight but be prepared, the road away from these teachings can be a painful one but God is ever faithful and always with you.

Ouija board...where did that come into the picture? Are you saying they were playing with Ouija boards during one of these services? That is a loaded and very questionable statement making it appear that these people are playing with Ouija boards.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Sorry if my point wasn't clear. I've a flu-rattled brain today.

No, I saw somebody become possessed after using a ouija board and what I saw happen to him was very similar to what I'd seen in services. At the time, I was very confused and scared by it. The thing that's stands out most were the eyes. It really is amazing what you can see in somebody's eyes.

Ah well, neither here nor there...I just believe these teachings border on the occult.

 

[Apollo Rhetor]

Children playing as animals in a schoolyard are in complete control of themselves. When they walk and talk like an animal they are making a conscious decision to do so, and can stop when they wish. They are in control and their mental faculties are running at a hundred percent.

The same cannot be said for the displays of hysteria in a church service.

Basically, these services are filled with emotional hysteria and mass hypnosis. There is nothing supernatural or miraculous about it (barring demonic possession). It is just a display of lack of self control and disorder.

Edit: Honestly, I just find it really embarrassing as a Christian. We are not at all representing God's kingdom. It is giving others cause to ridicule us. Normally I wouldn't care, but in this case it is something that is completely justified. It shows the Church of God as being on an emotional high, without order and without reason. When emotions rule, reason takes second place. The mind should rule your emotions and body, not the other way around.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Children playing as animals in a schoolyard are in complete control of themselves. When they walk and talk like an animal they are making a conscious decision to do so, and can stop when they wish. They are in control and their mental faculties are running at a hundred percent.

The same cannot be said for the displays of hysteria in a church service.

Basically, these services are filled with emotional hysteria and mass hypnosis. There is nothing supernatural or miraculous about it (barring demonic possession). It is just a display of lack of self control and disorder.

Edit: Honestly, I just find it really embarrassing as a Christian. We are not at all representing God's kingdom. It is giving others cause to ridicule us. Normally I wouldn't care, but in this case it is something that is completely justified. It shows the Church of God as being on an emotional high, without order and without reason. When emotions rule, reason takes second place. The mind should rule your emotions and body, not the other way around.

Nobody is doing any of those things against their will. They may feel they can't help it and they may say they can't help it but they can. It is their choice to submit their flesh to the presense of God.

Mass hypnosis? That's funny but untrue. Self control? Is that what one calls those who sit in the pew with their arms folded and they refuse to clap or raise their hands in worship? They won't let their feet tap to the music or their body sway a little....self control.

Embarassing, yea sometimes it is but God never said we would never be embarassed by anything He did. To me there are far worse things for a believer to be embarassed over (gossip, jealousy, theaft, adultery, slander, ect...now that gives people things to talk about) than their friends enjoying themselves at church.

I was there when demons were cast out of people. I watched as they wreathed and spoke in voice no human and they were set free and are still walking in freedom today.

It definately is not for everyone, but for those who've experienced it and been set free it was definately worth it for them.

 

[Psalms34]

Hmmm... saw the video, seen such things manytimes before. I'm more afraid of his doctrine than anything else he can manifest. Yes, the videos could possibly be full of demonic manifestations since Hagin teaches a different gospel so many there may not really be Christians in this video. Some of his doctrines:

Christ's physical death on the cross was not enough to save us.
How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01

Jesus tasted spiritual death.
How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01

The Christian "is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."
"The Incarnation," The Word of Faith (Dec. 1980)

"[Man] was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of inferiority...God made us as much like Himself as possible...He made us the same class of being that He is Himself...Man lived in the realm of God. He lived on terms equal with God...[The] believer is called Christ...That's who we are; we're Christ"
"Zoe: The God-Kind of Life," 1989. pp. 35-36, 41

"Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth"
"The Incarnation," The Word of Faith 13, December, 1980

"You are as much the incarnation of God as Jesus Christ was...the believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."
"Word Of Faith" Dec. 1980, p. 14

"Why did He need to be begotten or born? Because He became like we were - separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death. Jesus is the first person that was ever born again. Why did His spirit need to be born again? Because it was estranged from God." (Kenneth Hagin, "How Jesus obtained His Name"
Tape #44-H01


Others to fear of Word Faith(All):
E. W. KENYON
KEN HAGIN JR
JOHN OSTEEN
JIM KASEMAN
MAC HAMMOND
CASEY TREAT
JERRY SAVELLE
NORVEL HAYES
MORRIS CERULLO
BRIAN ZAHND
CHARLES CAPPS
ORAL ROBERTS
RICHARD ROBERTS
DARLENE BISHOP
LEROY THOMPSON
M. ASHIMOLOWO
BENNY HINN
Did I miss any? (bet I did)

Matthew 7: 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Many there may not be Christians in your church either. Whether they're manifesting something or not. Also, I'd be willing to bet that most Pastors have at least one doctrine that is not correct. Sad to say though the people don't check it out for themselves.

They do the same with those they don't like. They just take the word of what someone else who did a poor job of research and study says and never compare what is said was said with what was actually said. Nor do they consider the situation it was said it and if per chance the person repents they never forgive them....they just keep bringing up stuff that happened years and years ago. I wonder how we would feel if Jesus does that to us when we meet Him.

People are saved because they accept Jesus as Savior...nothing else. None of us will enter in because we had our doctrine correct and we were all straight laced and proper in church. We will be allowed in based on WHO Jesus is not how we did or did not act. To think otherwise, in my opinion is to be depending on works (our personal beliefs and actions) for His acceptance.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Good points , Quaffer !!

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Just so long as they know the real Jesus. That was the problem, I never knew the real Jesus until I got away from those teachings. You can call anything you like Jesus, but you cannot conform the Son of God into anything other than He already is.

That's where I had my most challenging difficulty after getting away from this. I had already asked 'Jesus' into my heart and believed He died for me. Once I really dug into the Word and prayed without ceasing over It, I realized the Jesus I knew was not the one in the Bible. But, that's another long story. Scary to think that for most of life, I was one of the ones that Jesus told would 'claim' to know Him but truly did not. That really shook me up.

 

[Psalms34]

Many there may not be Christians in your church either. Whether they're manifesting something or not. Also, I'd be willing to bet that most Pastors have at least one doctrine that is not correct. Sad to say though the people don't check it out for themselves.

They do the same with those they don't like. They just take the word of what someone else who did a poor job of research and study says and never compare what is said was said with what was actually said. Nor do they consider the situation it was said it and if per chance the person repents they never forgive them....they just keep bringing up stuff that happened years and years ago. I wonder how we would feel if Jesus does that to us when we meet Him.

People are saved because they accept Jesus as Savior...nothing else. None of us will enter in because we had our doctrine correct and we were all straight laced and proper in church. We will be allowed in based on WHO Jesus is not how we did or did not act. To think otherwise, in my opinion is to be depending on works (our personal beliefs and actions) for His acceptance.

Then you would argue that the JW's are in line with Jesus as well? I mean they teach that Jesus spiritually died as well. They don't believe that the atoning work at the cross, physical death, is enough to save from sin as well. This is right in line with Hagin. God not only holds the deceiver accountable but the deceived as well. This he teaches runs contrary with the core gospel of Christ.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Then you would argue that the JW's are in line with Jesus as well? I mean they teach that Jesus spiritually died as well. They don't believe that the atoning work at the cross, physical death, is enough to save from sin as well. This is right in line with Hagin. God not only holds the deceiver accountable but the deceived as well. This he teaches runs contrary with the core gospel of Christ.

What? Where in the world did the JW's come into the conversation? No where did I say anything of the sort. In fact, none of what you've brought up here is even part of this conversation. Are you saying that if one goes to the church with the right name on it that means they are automatically saved?

According to scripture in order for one to be saved they are to "believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ", and they are saved. Their doctrine may be wrong but as they grow and mature God will change that...that has no bearing though on their salvation IF they are depending on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not up to US to judge whether someone else knows the Biblical Jesus or not it IS up to US to emulate the Biblical Jesus so that those who really don't know Him will see the difference.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Just so long as they know the real Jesus. That was the problem, I never knew the real Jesus until I got away from those teachings. You can call anything you like Jesus, but you cannot conform the Son of God into anything other than He already is.

That's where I had my most challenging difficulty after getting away from this. I had already asked 'Jesus' into my heart and believed He died for me. Once I really dug into the Word and prayed without ceasing over It, I realized the Jesus I knew was not the one in the Bible. But, that's another long story. Scary to think that for most of life, I was one of the ones that Jesus told would 'claim' to know Him but truly did not. That really shook me up.

Then that was YOUR experience....not everyone else's.