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#3 merely highlights the fact that spirituality is an intrinsic offshoot of humanities crippled psyche, and was first codified as Hinduism (if not some earlier religion).
if i had the foggest about how to data C&A perhaps i could answer the question. as it is now, afaik, there is no way to answer it as C&A are unaccessible to historical analysis and dating.Who came first --- the Aryans or Cain and Abel?
I wasn't referring to that part. (has no one else ever made that claim then?) I was referring to the words he copied from my post.Was there anything specific about the words "Krishna did it first" you didn't understand?
An interesting thought. Could you provide sources for that?Isn't it true that the Aryans came from Japheth - Noah's son?
Doubtful, given that these two were supposed to be the sons of the nonexistant Adam.Did not Cain and Abel give an offering to the same God thousands of years before Noah?
Really? That's strange, I always thought that it was the other way round. Care to list your non-biblical sources?Isn't it true that monotheism predates polytheism by thousands of years?
One of these days, you should give all those historians a call and see what they think about your notions.Hinduism the oldest religion on earth? --- Not hardly.
Why not? It's not like the christmas tree has a christian origin? Why would a christian gather round a christmas tree?With a Christmas Tree?
Same here. The mistletoe is a symbol, and not a christian one at that. It is inherently pagan. You can celebrate what the symbol signifies.Mistletoe?
If you like, why not? I'll sing buddist, islamic or hindu songs also if I think they sound nice. We don't at home, we just put on Mozart.And, pray tell, singing traditional Christmas hymns?
Dates not derived from christianity, but from pagan celebrations.And, just by coincidence, December 24th or 25th?
I would argue that christians celebrate christmas the way they do in spite of their religion much more than atheists do. They put up pagan symbols near a pagan tree on a date derived from pagan holidays. I really cannot imagine a less christian thing to do than celebrate all of these 'christian' holidays using all of the pagan symbolism christians use.Nope --- I say atheists do this stuff in spite of their belief --- not in respect to it.
I would argue that christians celebrate christmas the way they do in spite of their religion much more than atheists do. They put up pagan symbols near a pagan tree on a date derived from pagan holidays. I really cannot imagine a less christian thing to do than celebrate all of these 'christian' holidays using all of the pagan symbolism christians use.
And you are totally and utterly missing the point, AV1611VET. The point is that you don't have to be a Christian to put up a tree and decorate it.
And what makes you think your god doesn't?You're making the same mistake the Canaanites did before the Exodus: thinking that God must work on a first-come/first-serve basis.
On the contrary, Christmas is celebrated as it is because of the Pagan Winter festival. Are you seriously suggesting that the similarities between Christmas and Yule are coincidental?Pagans don't hold a monopoly on the Evergreen tree, December 25th, or any other thing.
Nonsense. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Christmas should be on the Pagan Yule (a celebration of the birth of the (Sun) God, complete with kissing-under-the-mistletoe-for-fertility, burning yule logs, etc), the Babylonian feast of the Son of Isis (with much partying and gift-giving), the Roman Saturnalia (with Mummers going round entertaining neighbors; i.e., the first Carol singers), etc.They may get off celebrating the Winter Solstice, but when God says 'step aside', He means it.
And that is my point, christians do not hold a monopoly on these things either. Just like chritians co-opted the pagan holidays, atheists coopt the christian/pagan holidays. We celebrate them because (we think) it is good to have days together with your family, where you are grateful to be together. There is no celebration in spite our 'belief' going on. Just a cooption of christian holidays.You're making the same mistake the Canaanites did before the Exodus: thinking that God must work on a first-come/first-serve basis.
Pagans don't hold a monopoly on the Evergreen tree, December 25th, or any other thing.
They may get off celebrating the Winter Solstice, but when God says 'step aside', He means it.
- [bible]Exodus 9:29[/bible]
- [bible]Psalm 24:1[/bible]
Why would an atheist worship anything?I totally agree, Chalnoth --- as long as it doesn't lead to idol worship:
[bible]Jeremiah 10:1-5[/bible]
Why shouldn't I? I know an awful lot about ancient religions, and everyone else I know of who does, and all outward indications- say that Hinduism is the oldest continuously practiced religion on earth.Aron-Ra said:...Hindusim in particular, (being the oldest religion on earth)...Now I have a question for you --- do you believe this?
I already knew that. But there are older documents from the Indus valley.Before you answer, consider this copy-and-paste from wsu.edu:
- The earliest history of the Aryans in India is called the Rigvedic Period (1700-1000 BC) after the religious praise poems that are the oldest pieces of literature in India.
If you're asking me what religion preceded Hinduism in India, I would have no idea. I would jave to guess that they had a form of primitive polytheism like everyone else at that time. And as I said before, there are references in the Rig Veda to imply that it is much older than the evidence of Aryan habitation we know of now.Now --- here are some more questions for you:
1. What religion did the conquered people practice?
Oh no! Not by a long shot. But they are ancient. Even the Kurgan are believed to have descended from Aryans, and the Kurgan already had well-established cities across what is now western Russia 6,000 years ago.2. Were the Aryans the oldest people on earth?
No idea. Prior to say, 2200 BCE, there are no syllabic texts anymore, and all we have are petroglyphs with little or no religious reference at all.3. If not, what religion did their predecessors practice?
No, it is not. Noah is now a largely fictional character, but one based on a [more likely real] person now known as either utnapishtim, Ziusudra, or Atrahasis, or (by whatever name) the son of Ubar-Tutu, king of Babylon until the time of "the flood" of the Tigris-Euphrates flood plain at the end of the Jemdat-Nasr period in the 29th century BCE. The Aryans had already spread over most of Europe by then.4. Isn't it true that the Aryans came from Japheth - Noah's son?
In the earliest stories involving a Noah character, there is usually an alter to the gods of the Mesopotamian pantheon, the oldest religion we know anything about, and possibly older than any form of Hinduism. But that religion died out entirely thousands of years ago, leaving Hinduism as the oldest continuously-practiced religion on earth.5. Didn't Noah, a non-Japhethite, build an altar to the Lord?
No. Cain and Abel are entirely fictional, made up out of whole cloth, some time long after "the flood", and with no basis in reality whatsoever.6. Did not Cain and Abel give an offering to the same God thousands of years before Noah?
No. Pollytheism predates monotheism by thousands of years. The first monotheistic religion was the worship of the sun-disk, Aten, as popularized by the Pharoah, Akenaten (AKA Amenhotep) around 1500 BCE. The second is Zoroastrianism, founded around 600 BCE, and generally considered to have significantly influenced the formation of all western monotheism thereafter.7. Isn't it true that monotheism predates polytheism by thousands of years?
Definitely.Hinduism the oldest religion on earth? --- Not hardly.
Seriously, what do you care if non-Christians worship idols?
The traditions of Christmas are purely derived from non-Christian sources that predate Christianity, much as the traditional image of the Christian Devil is purely derived from images of non-Christian male deities.
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