T'was the night

[MrGoodBytes]

What AV1611VET says.

FoeHammer.

You obviously haven't read mine and rmwilliams posts - not that I expected you to do.

 

[Chalnoth]

You obviously haven't read mine and rmwilliams posts - not that I expected you to do.

Or apparently they believe that Satan knew beforehand what was going to happen, and planted evidence of similar gods to confuse people who would otherwise follow Jesus.

 

[FoeHammer]

You obviously haven't read mine and rmwilliams posts - not that I expected you to do.

What is it with you people? All that is obvious is that I disagree with you.

FoeHammer.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

What is it with you people? All that is obvious is that I disagree with you.

FoeHammer.

Without seeing the evidence first, nonetheless.

 

[Opcode42]

What is it with you people? All that is obvious is that I disagree with you.

FoeHammer.

Oh that is exceedingly obvious.

What is also obvious to those that actually take the time to read the entirety of a thread, and not just those few choice morsels which agree with their pre-conceived ideas, is that posters such as yourself and AV have absolutely nothing to back up their arguments. It is quite obvious that you do not read, much less understand the replies people make in these threads, and it is a pretty logical conclusion to thus surmise that you do so because you either cannot understand through lack of education, or are unwilling to even try due to lack of imagination.

What is obvious to those of us that lurk more often than post, is that the religious side of this debate has no facts to back up its case, and very poor spokes people for its cause. People who do not enjoy learning, are incapable of teaching. And since education seems to be at odds with the propagation of religious mythology, it tends to make the arguments more than a bit one sided. You come here to speak your case, yet when corned on the poor foundation of your principles, you resort to snide remarks and empty threats instead of actual evidence and logical argument.

What other conclusion can one draw but that you have no actual case to present? Just a whole lot of fear and anger directed towards those that actually have the facts and evidence on their side.

 

[Aron-Ra]

I would say that most every passage of Scripture has been plagiarized into another religion at some time or another. This is because Satan is a cheap imitator of God.

So you now admit that the Bible plagiarized earlier scriptures of other religions? I believe we're making progress!

The fact that no other single religion has all the attributes of Scripture is evidence of Satan's divide-and-conquer tactics.

Many other religions have scripture. Some of them, Hinduism in particular, (being the oldest religion on earth) believes Christianity is a periphrial religion which lacks much of their attributes. They consider Christianity "incomplete".

"We do not condemn people for worshipping God in different forms. God has millions of different names and forms. We do encourage people to worship God as Krsna, since His form as Krsna is said in scriptures to be the original form and also to be the most beautiful. We do [also] criticize people who chose to worship God by worship of one of the demigods (i.e. Lord Shiva, Lord Ganesha, etc.). Such worship is said to be less intelligent, according to the Gita."
--H. Krishna Susarla Ph.D.

 

[Aron-Ra]

And Satan predates the Rigveda.

No, he doesn't. As I have already explained, Satan post-dates the Avestas of Zarathustra. No part of any modern religion predates the Rig Veda.

 

[AV1611VET]

...Hinduism in particular, (being the oldest religion on earth)...

Not hardly --- the Hindu religion did not start until the Aryans crossed the Indus River.

It's sole function was to keep the elite (Aryans) in power (thus the Caste System).

Hinduism was so oppressive to the common man, they formed a breakaway religion (called Buddhism), and were leaving Hinduism in droves.

To counter this exodus, the Hindu wrote what is today called the Bhagavadgita.

Here's an excerpt from Ancient Empires of the New Age, by Paul DeParrie and Mary Pride:

From 200 B.C. to A.D. 100, many Hindus were abandoning the ways of their fathers to follow the teachings of Buddha. To change this state of affairs, the Bhagavadgita was written.

The problem was acute. Buddha had rejected the whole idea of the caste system and the need for sacrifices as well, which meant the need for Brahmin priests. His teaching was spreading like wildfire. Even a great king of India had become a Buddhist.

The Gita is a dialogue between a hero of the same caste - the warrior caste - that had been foremost in the revolt against Brahminism, and Krishna, an incarnation of the god Vishnu. The hero, Arjun, is about to go into battle, and wonders why he should bother. As a Buddhist, he does no want to kill, he does not need the victory, and he feels compassion for his enemies. Krishna counters these arguments with an appeal to Arjun's duty to his caste. How can Arjun think of overthrowing all civilized society by refusing to behave according to his caste? Further, the enemy only appear to be people. Reality is an illusion. Thanks to reincarnation, death is no tragedy anyway. Finally, Krishna informs Arjun that he is right to not feel any desire to fight, but that he should wade out there and kill anyway. The buddhist ideal of renouncing the world and accepting nonviolence is wrong. "Desireless action" is the right way - obeying the Brahmin rules of caste without caring terribly about the outcome.

This explanation stopped Buddhism in India in its tracks. Two versions of it have also stopped the church in America in its tracks. The version for adults, pietism, causes Christians to care nothing about what happens to the world so long as they are (they imagine) saved. The version for children, being cool, causes them to care only about not caring.

 

[Aron-Ra]

...Hinduism in particular, (being the oldest religion on earth)...

Not hardly --- the Hindu religion did not start until the Aryans crossed the Indus River.

All your prejudiced propaganda aside, Christianity (however you define it) began some time between the 1st and 4th centuries of the common era. Judaism, the separate religion on which Christianity is based, didn't exist in any form until sometime between 1250 and 1350 BCE. The Rig Veda is conventionally dated to some time prior to 1500 BCE, and astronomical references indicate it may have been composed as early as 2,600 years or so prior to even Yahwistic Judaism.

 

[AV1611VET]

All your prejudiced propaganda aside, Christianity (however you define it) began some time between the 1st and 4th centuries of the common era. Judaism, the separate religion on which Christianity is based, didn't exist in any form until sometime between 1250 and 1350 BCE. The Rig Veda is conventionally dated to some time prior to 1500 BCE, and astronomical references indicate it may have been composed as early as 2,600 years or so prior to even Yahwistic Judaism.

I'd say this is a good stopping place.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I'd say this is a good stopping place.

Because you lose?

 

[Baggins]

You don't want to run the risk of learning something

 

[FoeHammer]

Same thing with Lord Krishna, and he did it first, and he came back and did it again, and again, and again. That's winning the argument in my book, and his book of course.

How very..... unoriginal.

God, it seems, has many books.

Yes some in the Old Testament and some in the New Testament brought together perfectly in The KJV Bible.

FoeHammer.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

How very..... unoriginal.

Was there anything specific about the words "Krishna did it first" you didn't understand?

 

[Aron-Ra]

How very..... unoriginal.

Krishna is the original. He made the blind see and gave the criteria for salvation many centuries before Jesus. Krishna was one of the first, (if not THE first) transcendental god-men in all mythology, and the only one to ever describe himself as an avatar of God. Jesus never described himself as anything even comparable to Krishna.

God, it seems, has many books.

Yes some in the Old Testament and some in the New Testament brought together perfectly in The KJV Bible.

You forgot another couple dozen that were omitted or discarded by a committee of human editors. But I was talking about the Torah as one book, and the gospels as twenty different books. Then of course, there is the Mahabarata, including the Bhagavad-Gita. But there are also the other Vedic scriptures, and the Islamic Qur'an, Baha'u'llah's Kitab-i-Aqdas, the Adi-Granth of the Sikhs, and a few others besides Enuma Elish and the Avestas of Zarathustra, on which much of your mythology was based.

 

[ReverendDG]

Not hardly --- the Hindu religion did not start until the Aryans crossed the Indus River.

It's sole function was to keep the elite (Aryans) in power (thus the Caste System).

Hinduism was so oppressive to the common man, they formed a breakaway religion (called Buddhism), and were leaving Hinduism in droves.

To counter this exodus, the Hindu wrote what is today called the Bhagavadgita.

Here's an excerpt from Ancient Empires of the New Age, by Paul DeParrie and Mary Pride:

From 200 B.C. to A.D. 100, many Hindus were abandoning the ways of their fathers to follow the teachings of Buddha. To change this state of affairs, the Bhagavadgita was written.

The problem was acute. Buddha had rejected the whole idea of the caste system and the need for sacrifices as well, which meant the need for Brahmin priests. His teaching was spreading like wildfire. Even a great king of India had become a Buddhist.

The Gita is a dialogue between a hero of the same caste - the warrior caste - that had been foremost in the revolt against Brahminism, and Krishna, an incarnation of the god Vishnu. The hero, Arjun, is about to go into battle, and wonders why he should bother. As a Buddhist, he does no want to kill, he does not need the victory, and he feels compassion for his enemies. Krishna counters these arguments with an appeal to Arjun's duty to his caste. How can Arjun think of overthrowing all civilized society by refusing to behave according to his caste? Further, the enemy only appear to be people. Reality is an illusion. Thanks to reincarnation, death is no tragedy anyway. Finally, Krishna informs Arjun that he is right to not feel any desire to fight, but that he should wade out there and kill anyway. The buddhist ideal of renouncing the world and accepting nonviolence is wrong. "Desireless action" is the right way - obeying the Brahmin rules of caste without caring terribly about the outcome.

This explanation stopped Buddhism in India in its tracks. Two versions of it have also stopped the church in America in its tracks. The version for adults, pietism, causes Christians to care nothing about what happens to the world so long as they are (they imagine) saved. The version for children, being cool, causes them to care only about not caring.

Heres a question for you AV, why is anything in your post relevent to anything you are replying to?

its funny, but you show nothing that indicates that the person you are replying to is wrong!

 

[ReverendDG]

How very..... unoriginal.
Yes, the jewish people copied a lot of stuff from other cultures, originality is not a human endever back then

Yes some in the Old Testament and some in the New Testament brought together perfectly in The KJV Bible.
Is this a joke? the KJV is the worst bible i've ever read, and i guess its easier for you to ignore all the history of the text creation than to learn something, like hmm it took them centuries to create the "perfect" text you claim as perfect?
FoeHammer.

Good luck with that

 

[lemmings]

How very..... unoriginal.

If the copywrite laws in effect today where enforced back then, Christianity would never have been born.

This pattern is based upon The Hero: A study in Tradition, Myth and Dreams by Lord Raglan

Incidents which occur with regularity in hero-myths of all cultures:

1. Hero's mother is a royal virgin;
2. His father is a king, and
3. Often a near relative of his mother, but
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
6. At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grand father to kill him, but
7. he is spirited away, and
8. Reared by foster -parents in a far country.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future Kingdom.
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
13. And becomes king.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
15. Prescribes laws, but
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill,
20. His children, if any do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres.


Krishna (21)
Moses (20)
Romulus (19)
King Arthur (19)
Perseus (18)
Jesus (18)
Watu Gunung of Java (18)
Heracles (17)
Mohammad (17)
Beowulf (15)
Buddha (15)
Zeus (14)
Nyikang, a cult-hero of the Shiluk tribe of the Upper Nile (14)
Samson (13)
Sunjata, the Lion-King of Ancient Mali (11)
Achilles (10)
Odysseus (8)
Harry Potter (8)
Czar Nicholas II (14)

His mother, Mary, is (1) a royal virgin (descendant of King David), and his father is (2) Joseph, who is (3) her close relative. He is reported to be (5) the son of God, who (4) sends his Holy Spirit to Mary. At his birth King Herod (6) tries to kill him, but he and his parents (7) flee to Egypt. We are told (9) almost nothing of his childhood, but on reaching manhood he begins to enter (10) his future kingdom. He teaches successfully (14) for some time, prescribing (15) ways of behavior and belief. His enemies (16) persecute him, and he is executed (18) on top of a hill (19). He defeats the forces of evil (11) and eventually returns (10) to his heavenly kingdom. He has (20) no children to succeed him. His body is (21) not buried, but he has a sepulchre (22) in Jerusalem.

http://department.monm.edu/classics/courses/Clas230/MythDocuments/HeroPattern/default.htm

 

[AV1611VET]

Heres a question for you AV, why is anything in your post relevent to anything you are replying to?

its funny, but you show nothing that indicates that the person you are replying to is wrong!

Did you read Post 68, DG?

Let me spell it out for you then:

• ...Hindusim in particular, (being the oldest religion on earth)...

Now I have a question for you --- do you believe this?

Before you answer, consider this copy-and-paste from wsu.edu:

• The earliest history of the Aryans in India is called the Rigvedic Period (1700-1000 BC) after the religious praise poems that are the oldest pieces of literature in India.

Now --- here are some more questions for you:

1. What religion did the conquered people practice?
2. Were the Aryans the oldest people on earth?
3. If not, what religion did their predecessors practice?
4. Isn't it true that the Aryans came from Japheth - Noah's son?
5. Didn't Noah, a non-Japhethite, build an altar to the Lord?
6. Did not Cain and Abel give an offering to the same God thousands of years before Noah?
7. Isn't it true that monotheism predates polytheism by thousands of years?

Hinduism the oldest religion on earth? --- Not hardly.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Now --- here are some more questions for you:

1. What religion did the conquered people practice?
2. Were the Aryans the oldest people on earth?
3. If not, what religion did their predecessors practice?
4. Isn't it true that the Aryans came from Japheth - Noah's son?
5. Didn't Noah, a non-Japhethite, build an altar to the Lord?
6. Did not Cain and Abel give an offering to the same God thousands of years before Noah?
7. Isn't it true that monotheism predates polytheism by thousands of years?

Hinduism the oldest religion on earth? --- Not hardly.

The last 4 are purely overextensions of Judaeo-Christian mythology. In reality, in documented reality, Hinduism predates Judaism (and, by extension, Christianity and Islam).
#3 merely highlights the fact that spirituality is an intrinsic offshoot of humanities crippled psyche, and was first codified as Hinduism (if not some earlier religion).