Trump: Ukraine “Never Should Have Started War” with Russia

stevil said:

Standing up for Ukraine in defending herself from an invader tells everyone that in this global world expanding by military might, killing people, bombing buildings etc, is not the way.

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There is strong irony here. Here we have @stevil - apparently a non-believer judging from the avatar tagline - correctly arguing that use of military might is wrong, other than in a defensive mode. Fine, I am with him 100%. What is profoundly disturbing is that, on this very forum, we have Christians endorsing the use of military might to achieve American goals when it is more than clear that the teachings of Jesus obviously reject the use of military might, and more generally the use of "power", to get things done in the world (self-defence set aside, for the moment).

Trump is so sweet-talkable and easily flattered.

You just know Putin is using that to manipulate him, along with everything else Russia has learned from their long term project of grooming him. Its really sad and a bit distressing to see an American leader reduced to a follower - of a tyrant no less.

Hans Blaster said:

When they tell putin's lies like the one in the name of this thread. That's "pro-putin."

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I somewhat misread the post I replied to but I stand by my article post that the problems in Ukraine are primarily the fault of years of bad policies before & after the first Trump administration.

Lukaris said:

The Long, Destructive Shadow of Obama’s Russia Doctrine

A series of bad decisions during the Obama years prepared the ground for Vladimir Putin’s war.

foreignpolicy.com

I somewhat misread the post I replied to but I stand by my article post that the problems in Ukraine are primarily the fault of years of bad policies before & after the first Trump administration.

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And I was specifically talking about the president's use of russian propaganda talking points. (see thread title)

stevil said:

Trump has been pretty transparent about what his idea of the presidency is.
He wants immunity from the law.
He wants to gain total control of the law, the justice system, and pretty much everything.

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U.S. President Donald Trump signed an executive order stating that only the president and attorney general can interpret the law.​

Trump's Feb. 18, 2025, executive order titled "Ensuring accountability for all agencies" said the president and attorney general "shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch."

The order says those federal agencies must not "advance an interpretation of the law" that "contravenes the President or the Attorney General's opinion on a matter of law.

I'm pretty sure this power grab was documented in Project 2025

Vambram said:

Pleas Look up the topic on a good search engine about the religious persecution in Ukraine.

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Ukrainian democracy has its flaws, with a history of corruption and voter suppression and many other things. Many former Soviet Union countries face similar issues, which contributes to Ukraine and some Eastern European countries not being part of NATO and the EU.

One of the reasons President Zelensky came to power, despite being a comedian with no prior political experience, was because most Ukrainian politicians were viewed as corrupt, with some perceived as Russian puppets.

While President Zelensky may not be without faults, he assumed office in 2019. Before the world could recover from the pandemic, Russia invaded Ukraine. Consequently, he had limited opportunities to implement significant changes.

While it is possible to critique Ukraine and its democracy, drawing comparisons between President Zelensky and Putin would be both unjust and inaccurate.

It is evident that under President Trump, the U.S. foreign policy has drastically shifted from its stance over the last 80 years towards Europe and Russia. However, if past leaders like Reagan or Bush were in the White House today, they would likely foster stronger relationships with Ukraine and other Eastern European countries, encouraging their integration into NATO, the EU, and closer ties with the USA to prevent a pivot towards Russia. Unfortunately, the current administration and many Americans perceive Europe as either a threat or an economic burden exploiting U.S. resources, while viewing Russia in a more favorable light, advocating for closer ties between the USA and Russia instead of Europe.

As someone who aligns with Reagan and Bush's foreign policies, I believe this shift will harm the US's status as a superpower, benefiting only China. Russia's weak economy prevents it from regaining its former status, making it merely an ally to antagonize the USA alongside China.

expos4ever said:

There is strong irony here. Here we have @stevil - apparently a non-believer judging from the avatar tagline - correctly arguing that use of military might is wrong, other than in a defensive mode. Fine, I am with him 100%. What is profoundly disturbing is that, on this very forum, we have Christians endorsing the use of military might to achieve American goals when it is more than clear that the teachings of Jesus obviously reject the use of military might, and more generally the use of "power", to get things done in the world (self-defence set aside, for the moment).

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Well, I think the MAGA folk still proclaim to love Jesus 100%
But to be a loyal MAGA one may need to be compromised, I mean the may need to compromise on a few things.

The teachings of Jesus are one thing, but when it comes down to it, to get into heaven one just needs to believe in JC and love JC.
The teachings of Jesus therefore are perhaps guidelines only and hence can be compromised on in order to give Trump the 100% loyalty he asks for.
Trump doesn't offer teachings, but he does demand loyalty. It's a symbiotic relationship, MAGA give, Trump gets.

Most of so called “MAGA” is isolationist by inclination and against militarism. Ukraine needs support because of the mess the bipartisan, DC swamp helped put it in. Trump needs to retain the sound policy he had with Pence ( Vance can probably fill the gap). An alliance with nations like Poland & Hungary & hopefully a salvaged & rebuilt Ukraine independent of Western Europe might be a new direction to take. Until Trump said these dangerous & stupid remarks about Zelensky & Ukraine, he had nothing to apologize for. He can still save face & turn things around.

Landon Caeli said:

When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking

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If God spoke to each such that everyone was in agreement, then you might be on to something there. But unfortunately...

Bradskii said:

If God spoke to each such that everyone was in agreement, then you might be on to something there. But unfortunately...

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I give you a like, because you follow your own conscience.

Landon Caeli said:

I give you a like, because you follow your own conscience.

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Well, I'd like to take some credit for that, but I have no choice.

Bradskii said:

Well, I'd like to take some credit for that, but I have no choice.

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Well, you didn't use common talking points. You spoke from the heart, I assume.

...That's more than some people give.

Hazelelponi said:

Well, when a definition of "democracy" suspends elections

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NZ, Canada and the UK all postponed elections during their combined national emergencies of WW2. Are they not democracies?

Hazelelponi said:

and all else things that Zelinsky has done people can keep it, I won't support it.

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What are you now inventing in your imagination just to justify - or attempt to rationalise - what I consider to be one of the most appalling things an American President has ever said? This is a new low - even for Trump.

The KFB and GRU really did a number on this guy!