Trump: Ukraine “Never Should Have Started War” with Russia

[Vambram]

Democrats says the same thing about President Trump, that doesn’t make it true.

Democrats make similar claims about President Trump; however, that does not necessarily mean they are true. Zelensky is democratically elected President, end of the story.

Pleas Look up the topic on a good search engine about the religious persecution in Ukraine.

 

[Hans Blaster]

A quick Google search provided no evidence for that. Do you have a source to prove that Churchill postponed the election?

If you can prove it, we can all relax, and take a deep breath of reassurance. If not, it means corruption has found us, here, as lies are being spread... Which is not good.

Not Churchill specifically, but the UK Parliament did extend itself during both WW1 and WW2 deferring elections until after the wars. This is a power specifically denied to the US Congress (and President) by the Constitution.

Septennial Act 1715 - Wikipedia

 

[Landon Caeli]

I do not believe in extreme Calvinist positions such as limited atonement. I simply believe that God is powerful enough to direct human free will for his own purposes.

Of course He's powerful enough. But to say *He does*, as a statement of fact, in regards to causing the Holocaust, and all other things that are considered to us as evil? No. That's incorrect theology. Possibly even dangerous.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Not Churchill specifically, but the UK Parliament did extend itself during both WW1 and WW2 deferring elections until after the wars. This is a power specifically denied to the US Congress (and President) by the Constitution.

Septennial Act 1715 - Wikipedia

Thank you, Sir.

 

[perplexed]

A quick Google search provided no evidence for that. Do you have a source to prove that Churchill postponed the election?

If you can prove it, we can all relax, and take a deep breath of reassurance. If not, it means corruption has found us, here, as lies are being spread... Which is not good.

Churchill did not postpone the election

All parties agreed to postpone
read the second paragraph first page available for free

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1949631

List of United Kingdom general elections - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Landon Caeli]

Churchill did not postpone the election

All parties agreed to postpone
read the second paragraph first page available for free

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1949631

List of United Kingdom general elections - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 361604

Excellent sources, thank you for doing that, you've helped strengthen mine and other readers support for Ukraine.

 

[linux.poet]

Of course He's powerful enough. But to say *He does*, as a statement of fact, in regards to causing the Holocaust, and all other things that are considered to us as evil? No. That's incorrect theology. Possibly even dangerous.

What are the the dangers of said theology? Why is it incorrect?

It is consistent with large swaths of Job and Isaiah and the passage in Romans I quoted.

I think you may be getting confused between "God as the cause of evil" as "God as the allower of evil perpetuated by Satan and others." However, God is responsible for the evils that He chooses to allow, Holocaust included. Frankly, God even talks with the demons and Satan about what evils to allow, if Job is any indication, and even gives them directions on what to do! Shocking, but true.

If you can get too far into it in your finite understanding, one might start to cast aspersion on God's Holiness, but we are not God. It is indeed possible for God to be holy and Job and Isaiah to be true at the same time.

 

[rebornfree]

Really? So you're saying the Hand of God, so to speak, is responsible for the Holocaust? Wow!

...And it's because God didn't love the Jews.

This is what I'm gathering from your post's content. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I know that this wasn't addressed to me but I thought that it was important to jump in and say that not all Christians believe that. Most of us believe that it was the sinful actions of man which caused the holocaust and other evil things. God is purely good and loving. So much so that He sent His Son to die for our sins, and if we accept Jesus's death in our place we will have eternal life. John 3 v 16 makes it clear that it is for everyone but whether we receive it or not is dependent on our choosing or rejecting it. God wants everyone to receive it but He gives us free will to make our own decision about it.

Also many of us believe that it is right to obey civil authorities unless they contradict God's law. So we would not obey an evil regime which told us to do things which were clearly against Bible teaching, but in other matters we would obey them

 

[Bradskii]

I can go back to the Bible, or the Western Rule of Law, or my own conscience, or whatever moral authority you manage to dig up, and determine which deeds are good and evil...

So you can determine what is good and what is evil using your conscience. So this...

'Deciding what is good and evil is the epitome of arrogance and may even be abusive.'

...was nonsensical.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What are the the dangers of said theology? Why is it incorrect?

It is consistent with large swaths of Job and Isaiah and the passage in Romans I quoted.

I think you may be getting confused between "God as the cause of evil" as "God as the allower of evil perpetuated by Satan and others." However, God is responsible for the evils that He chooses to allow, Holocaust included. Frankly, God even talks with the demons and Satan about what evils to allow, if Job is any indication, and even gives them directions on what to do! Shocking, but true.

If you can get too far into it in your finite understanding, one might start to cast aspersion on God's Holiness, but we are not God. It is indeed possible for God to be holy and Job and Isaiah to be true at the same time.

You've taken the case of Job, and have applied it universally, to everything, as if it were the norm. But it was just a test of one man's faith, long ago.

...I don't think you should be preaching in the "unbelievers forum" as you called it earlier.

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[Landon Caeli]

I know that this wasn't addressed to me but I thought that it was important to jump in and say that not all Christians believe that. Most of us believe that it was the sinful actions of man which caused the holocaust and other evil things. God is purely good and loving. So much so that He sent His Son to die for our sins, and if we accept Jesus's death in our place we will have eternal life. John 3 v 16 makes it clear that it is for everyone but whether we receive it or not is dependent on our choosing or rejecting it. God wants everyone to receive it but He gives us free will to make our own decision about it.

Also many of us believe that it is right to obey civil authorities unless they contradict God's law. So we would not obey an evil regime which told us to do things which were clearly against Bible teaching, but in other matters we would obey them

Yes we do, and well said!

Unfortunately, this thread going to be shut down because someone who shouldn't (not you) is breaking all kinds of rules.

 

[Vambram]

Trump envoy visits injured Ukrainian soldiers to deliver message, gets asked simple question
Asked whether US can trust Putin, Kellogg said that "all wars end through negotiation"

Ukraine has been engulfed in an existential war. Ukraine’s efforts to counter Russia’s occupation are viewed as a test case for free democratic nations to preserve the rule-based global order.

Kellogg visited wounded Ukrainian troops and met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, whom he termed a "courageous leader." Trump, on the other hand, lashed out earlier this week at Zelenskyy, blasting him as "A Dictator without Elections." Trump walked back his comment on Friday that Russia did not invade Ukraine. He told Fox News Radio that Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine.


Kellogg visited wounded Ukrainian troops at the Irpin Military Hospital. The New York Post’s Caitlin Doornbas accompanied Kellogg on his tour. She reported that Kellogg and Ambassador to Ukraine Bridget A. Brink had visited the hospital on Friday "where Ukrainian troops with leg and arm amputations were receiving treatments and getting outfitted with prosthetics."
The New York Post reported that Kellogg said "The biggest reason I wanted to come here was President Trump has said he wants to stop the killing, and you’ve got to go to the place where you see what killing looks like — what death looks like — and see young men and women who have been wounded and combat. As a soldier, you owe them that respect. As a leader, you owe that respect. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to come here to do that, and this gives me an opportunity to see them."
According to the Post, "Kellogg visited roughly 20 troops, sitting with each one and having individual discussions. One, named Andrii, had lost both legs, an eye, his hearing and suffered a traumatic brain injury."

A Ukrainian soldier named Denis, according to the Post, asked Kellogg, "In your opinion, can we trust Russia? That they will negotiate?"
Kellogg responded "You almost have to look back in history, and you have to have an ability to negotiate. All wars end through negotiation, the ultimate victory on the battlefield ends with diplomacy, and today’s world is no different."
The retired General continued, "I think a better question would be: Can you trust the people that you are with to make sure that they're with you? It's sort of like you ask a deeper question: Are you with us? And the answer is, yes, we are."

Kellogg said, "I think the nations of the world recognize aggression. Sometimes diplomacy for a soldier is messy, but what the soldier does is he gives time for the politicians and the diplomats to come to a conclusion, and that's the reason why I make that comment that Ukraine owes you — the world owes you — because you basically sacrifice to allow diplomats to find . . . a good conclusion — a conclusion you fought for. We, in that position, we owe you that. We need to make sure that we end this right."

The death toll of the Ukraine-Russia war is stomach-turning. According to the Wall Street Journal, the number of dead and wounded—based on estimates in September — is nearly one million.


The wounded Ukrainian soldier, Denis, told Kellogg that Ukraine must have "a strong army," because he worried that after negotiations, it could be "five, maximum 10 years of peace, and then it could get back to the next phase of war," reported the Post.

Kellogg answered, "Well, I think the intent is there’ll be no next war."

Trump envoy visits injured Ukrainian soldiers to deliver message, gets asked simple question

Just days before the three-year anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Trump’s envoy seeks to end the bloody conflict and secure compensation from Ukraine for U.S. military aid to the war-torn nation that is fighting for its survival.

www.foxnews.com

 

[linux.poet]

So you can determine what is good and what is evil using your conscience. So this...

'Deciding what is good and evil is the epitome of arrogance and may even be abusive.'

...was nonsensical.

It is not. This post really reflects a failure to read my previous post.

The human conscience is a weak force that is not powerful enough to stand up to the sin nature of mankind, or abusers, or evil tyrannical dictators. Because of the sin nature of mankind, humanity needs an external morality system that is stronger than the conscience in order for any fight against evil to be established that cannot be manipulated and taken advantage of by the evil itself.

...I don't think you should be preaching in the "unbelievers forum" as you called it earlier.

And with that, I'm just going to call it a day. This debate started because Bradskii had an emotional reaction to my stance on Ukraine and declared it immoral. But we have gotten far from that point. I was simply trying to explain my logically ordered position on the subject and get to the bottom of my debate opponent's responses.

 

[Bradskii]

Because of the sin nature of mankind, humanity needs an external morality system that is stronger than the conscience in order for any fight against evil to be established that cannot be manipulated and taken advantage of by the evil itself.

So, in your opinion, this external morality system is the correct one?

 

[Vambram]

Putin did not campaign for him this time compared to his first election.

I guarantee y'all that less than 0.0001% of the Americans who voted for Trump in 2016 or in 2024 did so because that is what Vladimir Putin wanted.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I guarantee y'all that less than 0.0001% of the Americans who voted for Trump in 2016 or in 2024 did so because that is what Vladimir Putin wanted.

It is the inverse I am more concerned about -- the number of Americans that have become pro-putin because they like Trump.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It is the inverse I am more concerned about -- the number of Americans that have become pro-putin because they like Trump.

Not me.

 

[Landon Caeli]

...I still don't even like Germany, for what they did almost a century ago, beat that!

 

[linux.poet]

So, in your opinion, this external morality system is the correct one?

If you're referring to Christianity, than yes.

the number of Americans that have become pro-putin because they like Trump.

I don't even like Trump, so zero points to Putin.

 

[Vambram]

It is the inverse I am more concerned about -- the number of Americans that have become pro-putin because they like Trump.

99% of Americans are NOT pro-Putin.