Trump: Ukraine “Never Should Have Started War” with Russia

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Yes. One country, the United States, is spending almost as much as all of NATO combined to a country that isn't even a part of NATO. You don't see the problem?

That is because the GDP of the United States exceeds the combined GDP of other NATO countries.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

That is because the GDP of the United States exceeds the combined GDP of other NATO countries.

What does that tell you. The United States IS NATO and NATO is nothing without the United States. But it doesn't have to be like that. It may require Europe making cuts to their social spending to refugees and invest in their militaries.

 

[7thKeeper]

That is because the GDP of the United States exceeds the combined GDP of other NATO countries.

This chart is now a bit out of date, but here's aid to Ukraine as % of GDP from last year. It cuts off at the end between Luxemburg and Japan. Oompa seems to have trouble understanding that as an absolute sum, a nation of say 1,5 million like Estonia, can't donate as large sums as a larger nation because the economies aren't the same. But they sure are giving more of what they've got.

 

[7thKeeper]

What does that tell you. The United States IS NATO and NATO is nothing without the United States. But it doesn't have to be like that. It may require Europe making cuts to their social spending to refugees and invest in their militaries.

Cuts to social spending don't magically make ones GDP rise up. You're not even making a logical arguement anymore. As per how large their GDPs are, several nations are giving more than the USA to Ukraine.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

This chart is now a bit out of date, but here's aid to Ukraine as % of GDP from last year. It cuts off at the end between Luxemburg and Japan. Oompa seems to have trouble understanding that as an absolute sum, a nation of say 1,5 million like Estonia, can't donate as large sums as a larger nation because the economies aren't the same. But they sure are giving more of what they've got.

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And you fail to grasp the point that without the United States and our massive GDP, NATO couldn't afford to buy eggs, much less defend their countries.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Cuts to social spending don't magically make ones GDP rise up. You're not even making a logical arguement anymore. As per how large their GDPs are, several nations are giving more than the USA to Ukraine.

Cuts in social spending means more money to be put towards defense. I don't know how much more simple I can make it without insulting you. Most of the European countries are not even honoring their defense spending obligations. Although it is better, it got better because Trump was threatening to cut off the American teat. Maybe your country could benefit from their own DOGE.

 

[wing2000]

Keeping China in check so the US can maintain its status as the sole global superpower.

Does "keeping China in check" include defending Taiwan?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Does "keeping China in check" include defending Taiwan?

According to Trump, if Taiwan gives us their computer chips. Face it, with Trump in charge, the world can forget about the United States wasting blood and treasure purely out of the goodness of our hearts. Again, that is why Europe sits at the kiddy table while Trump and Putin negotiates. Otherwise, explain why Europe isn't going over Trump's head and setting up a meeting with Ukraine and Russia?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

What does that tell you. The United States IS NATO and NATO is nothing without the United States. But it doesn't have to be like that. It may require Europe making cuts to their social spending to refugees and invest in their militaries.

You are correct. Without the United States, NATO would not be as strong, given that the United States is significantly stronger economically and militarily than all other NATO countries combined.

That being said, the rest of NATO, particularly Europe as a collective, is the second most powerful bloc economically and militarily in the world. The United States is fortunate that Europe is our ally.

Here is GDP of the world

BRICE

Russia 1.8+ China 18.4 +India 3.7 + Brazil 2.1+ Iran 368b + South Africa - 405 b + Egypt -387b + Ethiopia 156b + UAE -499b + Saudi Arab 1.1t + Argentina 641 =29.5 trillion

Vs NATO and US allies

USA 25.1 + Japan 4.9 + UK 2.8 + Canada 1.7 + South Korea 1.9 + Australia 1.8 + EU 17 = 55.2 trillion total GDP.

Instead of antagonizing Europe and NATO, America should support the alliance. One day, America might find Europe as an adversary rather than an ally. On that day, Europe, which ruled much of the world for five hundred plus of years, could become a greater threat to America than China or Russia.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Instead of antagonizing Europe and NATO, America should support the alliance.

I still don't think you see the point. Trump wants NATO to become stronger and more self-sufficient. Going back to the analogy of the 35 year old millennial man living in his parent's basement, forcing him to pay rent or get a job is what I would call "tough love." The intent is to kick this oversized chick out of the nest and hope that it will become stronger and independent. That is what Trump is doing to NATO, and just like any snotty and entitled teenager, they are angry that Trump has the audacity to tell them to either start helping with the bills, or get out of my house. I pray that Europe chooses the former. If so, it would make for a much stronger NATO alliance that is not so heavily dependent on the United States. Wouldn't you agree that it would be nice for Europe to be able to tell the US where to stick it? Or would you prefer to remain at their mercy?

 

[durangodawood]

I am sure I would get into trouble if I gave you my views on that.

If you have to say that, then yes probably.

But it might help us understand the moral framework you bring to understanding things such as the invasion of Ukraine.

Ah forget it. I dont want to know.

 

[SimplyMe]

Cuts in social spending means more money to be put towards defense. I don't know how much more simple I can make it without insulting you. Most of the European countries are not even honoring their defense spending obligations. Although it is better, it got better because Trump was threatening to cut off the American teat. Maybe your country could benefit from their own DOGE.

This is false, almost all European countries are honoring their defense spending obligations under NATO. The only two I'm aware of that aren't (though I might have missed a couple) are Spain and Italy.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Trump wants paid, so it looks like he is in the protection business.

It would have been good if he understood that was not the role of the president *before* running for office. Sigh.

 

[stevil]

Yea, that was obvious.

In your transactional world, if a powerful nation wants territory or resources, it can just take it.

Well all of a sudden, this IS the thing they want. Ever since Trump has publicly declared he wants Canada, Panama, Gaza and now Ukraine.

Remember, the commie Russians used to be public enemy no 1, now the Russians are friends and it is the radical lefties and the media that are public enemy no 1.

 

[stevil]

It would have been good if he understood that was not the role of the president *before* running for office. Sigh.

Trump has been pretty transparent about what his idea of the presidency is.
He wants immunity from the law.
He wants to gain total control of the law, the justice system, and pretty much everything.
He openly said before the election that he would pardon people who illegally do violence for him, who attack the police, or the government for him.
He wants to put his wealthy elite buddies into the highest positions either to destroy the departments that he gives them or to enrich themselves and him. He wants to reduce taxes for the wealthy and put taxes onto the common consumers (such as tariffs). He wants to reduce costs for the wealthy by removing environmental protections. He wants to stop brown people entering the country and kick brown people out of the country. He wants to stop benefits and aid going to the poor, stop medicade, remove price limits on medication. He wants to remove USA from being an active participant in global initiatives such as the Paris accord, WHO, potentially NATO, he wants to stop USA from supporting poor nations, poor people, wants to stop USA helping on a global level to contain contagious outbreaks. He wants to destroy USA's ally relationships, he wants to cosy up to dictatorships and strong men.

People should stop complaining. This is what USA voted for. This is what you will get for the next 4 years. You willingly voted for this.
While I have sympathy for the world, like Ukraine and those nations that used to benefit from USAID, like many poor and impoverished African nations, and pretty much every country which is now more likely to experience another global pandemic. I do not have any sympathy for USA, you got to vote, this is what you get, this is what you deserve.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I still don't think you see the point. Trump wants NATO to become stronger and more self-sufficient. Going back to the analogy of the 35 year old millennial man living in his parent's basement, forcing him to pay rent or get a job is what I would call "tough love." The intent is to kick this oversized chick out of the nest and hope that it will become stronger and independent. That is what Trump is doing to NATO, and just like any snotty and entitled teenager, they are angry that Trump has the audacity to tell them to either start helping with the bills, or get out of my house. I pray that Europe chooses the former. If so, it would make for a much stronger NATO alliance that is not so heavily dependent on the United States. Wouldn't you agree that it would be nice for Europe to be able to tell the US where to stick it? Or would you prefer to remain at their mercy?

Comparing someone living in their parents' basement who may need some discipline to become independent to the Europe-USA alliance lack understanding of geopolitics. Europe is not a teenager needing motivation to gain independence; it is second most powerful regions globally. Therefore, it would be prudent to treat Europe with respect and not as if it were an unruly teenager deserving reprimand.

Do I want Europe “stick it” to the USA? Absolutely not. Anyone who loves America and wants American supremacy in the world would not consider such a scenario where the second most powerful region is America's adversary. America is fortunate that Europe is our ally and not our enemy. If Europe became an adversary, it would be a far greater threat to United States than China, Russia, and the rest of the world combined.

Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto famously remarked, "We have awakened a sleeping giant." In a similar vein, if President Trump and the American right persist in disparaging Europe and treating them as unequal partners, they may stir the formidable entity that is Europe. It is at this juncture that the United States might recognize that without NATO and European support, it cannot sustain its status as a global superpower.

Does Europe benefit from American power? Yes, they do. However, the USA also benefits. The mutual relationship between the two has created one of the most stable and powerful alliances in the world. Breaking this alliance would only benefit America's adversaries.

 

[Vambram]

Between President Putin and President Zelensky, only Putin is a dictator. Zelensky is a democratically elected leader.

Opinions may vary. However, Zelensky and the leaders of Ukraine have failed their people. Putin is a evil tyrannical dictator and the Ukrainian leaders are failures.

 

[Vambram]

Trump has been pretty transparent about what his idea of the presidency is.
He wants immunity from the law.
He wants to gain total control of the law, the justice system, and pretty much everything.
He openly said before the election that he would pardon people who illegally do violence for him, who attack the police, or the government for him.
He wants to put his wealthy elite buddies into the highest positions either to destroy the departments that he gives them or to enrich themselves and him. He wants to reduce taxes for the wealthy and put taxes onto the common consumers (such as tariffs). He wants to reduce costs for the wealthy by removing environmental protections. He wants to stop brown people entering the country and kick brown people out of the country. He wants to stop benefits and aid going to the poor, stop medicade, remove price limits on medication. He wants to remove USA from being an active participant in global initiatives such as the Paris accord, WHO, potentially NATO, he wants to stop USA from supporting poor nations, poor people, wants to stop USA helping on a global level to contain contagious outbreaks. He wants to destroy USA's ally relationships, he wants to cosy up to dictatorships and strong men.

People should stop complaining. This is what USA voted for. This is what you will get for the next 4 years. You willingly voted for this.
While I have sympathy for the world, like Ukraine and those nations that used to benefit from USAID, like many poor and impoverished African nations, and pretty much every country which is now more likely to experience another global pandemic. I do not have any sympathy for USA, you got to vote, this is what you get, this is what you deserve.

I absolutely and very strongly disagree with the majority of that post.

 

[Vambram]

You are correct. Without the United States, NATO would not be as strong, given that the United States is significantly stronger economically and militarily than all other NATO countries combined.

That being said, the rest of NATO, particularly Europe as a collective, is the second most powerful bloc economically and militarily in the world. The United States is fortunate that Europe is our ally.

Here is GDP of the world

BRICE

Russia 1.8+ China 18.4 +India 3.7 + Brazil 2.1+ Iran 368b + South Africa - 405 b + Egypt -387b + Ethiopia 156b + UAE -499b + Saudi Arab 1.1t + Argentina 641 =29.5 trillion

Vs NATO and US allies

USA 25.1 + Japan 4.9 + UK 2.8 + Canada 1.7 + South Korea 1.9 + Australia 1.8 + EU 17 = 55.2 trillion total GDP.

Instead of antagonizing Europe and NATO, America should support the alliance. One day, America might find Europe as an adversary rather than an ally. On that day, Europe, which ruled much of the world for five hundred plus of years, could become a greater threat to America than China or Russia.

IMO, there is too much infighting and not nearly enough unanimity amongst the European Union for them to coalesce into become one of the top military powers in the world.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Keeping China in check so the US can maintain its status as the sole global superpower.

Could you please explain the actions China is taking that may pose a threat to the global superpower status of the United States?