• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

The word "Church" is not in scripture.

JudaicChristian

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2009
1,820
35
✟2,215.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The word "Assembly and Congregation" are INTERPRETATED as Church. Now what do you think of that?

If you will take notice, the word Church is not used in the Old Testament. The word Ekklesia is used 114 times, and mostly as an INTERPRETATION for Church and a few times as Assembly or Congregation. The word Church is an INTERPRETATION were as Assembly or Congregation would be a TRANSLATION.

The ecclesia or ekklesia was the principal assembly of the democracy of ancient Athens during its Golden Age (480-404 BCE). It was a gathering place for politicians and voters. This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the New Testament's Greek word ekklesia. Ekklesia really means "a calling out", a meeting or a gathering. Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation. Neither ekklesia nor qahal means a building.

Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "'churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples! Where then did the word "church", come from?
Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However to accept this, one has to stretch your imagination in an attempt to see any resemblance. Also, because kuriakon means a building (the house of Kurios=Lords), and not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, even if it is true.

Our common dictionaries, however, are honest in revealing to us the true origin. They all trace the word back to its Old English or Anglo-Saxon root, namely circe. And what is the origin of circe? Any encyclopedia, or dictionary of mythology, will reveal who Circe was. She was the goddess daughter of Helios, the Sun deity! Again, another form of Sun worship, this time the daughter of the Sun deity had become mixed with the Christian Faith.

Some interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with circum". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse".
However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in Netherlands as kerk. These words show their direct derivation from the Greek Kirke even better than the English "church". However, even the Old English circe for "church", reveals its origin.
Let us rather use the Scriptural "Assembly" or "Congregation", and renounce the word that is derived from Circe, the daughter of the Sun deity which is worshiped even today on the day of the Sun, Sunday!

This is what the point of this subject is: Many Christians place the importance of a "Church" as the only means of salvation, when in fact it is the believers themselves that are The Body of Christ.

Salvation is obtained by your keeping of God's precepts and Commandments in addition to the testimony of Yahshua. And that is what scripture says. That is The New Covenant.
The True Church is the "congregation" of believers.
A Church is a building for public gatherings of various sorts. Where ever the true believers assemble, that is the congregation.

And again like I have said before, the word church is an interpretation for the words Assembly and Congregation. For example, the Catholic Church has said that salvation can only be found through the Catholic Church.
And that is why you see the interpretation church given in the bible.
 

Mixahl

alive
Feb 18, 2010
5
0
35
✟15,115.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
"Church" from the Oxford English Dictionary, definitions 4 and 5.
4. a. The community or whole body of Christ's faithful people collectively; all who are spiritually united to Christ as ‘Head of the Church’. More fully described as the Church Universal or Catholic.
(Sometimes its external organization, sometimes its spiritual nature, is chiefly considered.)
b.
Church militant: the Church on earth considered as warring against the powers of evil. (Sometimes used jocularly in reference to actual warfare or polemics.) Church triumphant: the portion of the church which has overcome the world, and entered into glory.
c. Visible Church: the church as visibly consisting of its professed members upon earth; contrasted with the Church Invisible, or Mystical.
d. The church as a spiritual society ‘separated from the world’ is often opposed to the world.

5. a. A particular organized Christian society, considered either as the only true representative, or as a distinct branch, of the Church universal, separated by peculiarities of doctrine, worship, or organization, or confined to limits territorial or historical: e.g. the primitive church, the Latin Ch., Greek Ch., Orthodox Ch., Gallican Ch., Nestorian Ch., Ancient British Ch., Anglo-Saxon Ch., Lutheran Ch., Reformed Ch., Waldensian Ch., Ch. of England (see b.), of Scotland, Free Ch. of Scotland, United Presbyterian Ch., American Episcopal Ch., Methodist Episcopal Ch., etc.
Which part of this are you objecting to?


This is what the OED has to say about the etymology of the word "church".
Church, earlier churche, cherche, is a phonetically-spelt normal representative of Middle English chirche, the regular representation of Old English circe; the fuller Old English cirice, cirice gave the early ME. variant chereche, chiriche... Old English cirice, circe, corresponds. to West Germanic kîrika, Old Saxon kirika, kerika (Middle Low German and Middle Dutch kerke, Dutch kerk, Low German kerke, karke, kark, with ar:-er:-ir); Old Frisian szereke, szurke, tzierka, tziurk; Old High German. chirihha...; also Old Norse kirkia, kyrkja, Swedish kyrka, Danish kirke (thence Finnish. kirkko, Esthonian. kirrik, kirk, kerk; also Old Prussian. kîrkis). Cf. also the Slavonic forms: Old Slavonic criky, 10th c., cruky fem., later crukuve, cirkovi...

The ulterior derivation has been keenly disputed. The Latin circus, and a Gothic word kêlikn ‘tower, upper chamber’ (app. originally Gaulish) have both been proposed (the latter suggested by the Alemannic chîlihha), but are set aside as untenable; and there is now a general agreement among scholars in referring it to the Greek word κυριακον, properly adj. ‘of the Lord, dominicum, dominical’ (from κυριος lord), which occurs, from the 3rd century at least, used substantively (sc. δωμα, or the like) = ‘house of the Lord’, as a name of the Christian house of worship. Of this the earliest cited instances are in the Apostolical Constitutions (II. 59)
The emphasis is mine. Would you mind producing your sources so I may look at them?
 
Upvote 0

Eucharisted

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2009
6,962
324
United States
✟8,761.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Acts 7:38

38 οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ γενόμενος ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ μετὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου τοῦ λαλοῦντος αὐτῷ ἐν τῷ ὄρει Σινᾶ καὶ τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν, ὃς ἐδέξατο λόγια ζῶντα δοῦναι ὑμῖν,

38 Hic est qui fuit in ecclesia in solitudine cum angelo, qui loquebatur ei in monte Sina, et cum patribus nostris : qui accepit verba vitæ dare nobis.

38 This is he that was in the church in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sina and with our fathers. Who received the words of life to give unto us.

Considering that the the Jews knew Greek, I'd imagine they know the word "church".
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,589
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Jnwaco

Regular Member
Jan 26, 2010
1,376
49
✟16,803.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Neither is Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious what's your point.


Actually, that's in the Secret Gospel of Mary Poppins, Chapter 3 and verse 32.

I was thinking that the "church" was the collection of all Christians, wherever they met.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Willtor
Upvote 0

Eucharisted

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2009
6,962
324
United States
✟8,761.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Besides the Jewish Christians, you know who else knew Greek? Jesus. He used the word "church":

Matthe 16:18


18 κἀγὼ δέ σοι λέγω ὅτι σὺ εἶ Πέτρος, καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, καὶ πύλαι ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς.

18 Et ego dico tibi, quia tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram ædificabo Ecclesiam meam, et portæ inferi non prævalebunt adversus eam.

18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
Upvote 0

wayseer

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2008
8,226
504
Maryborough, QLD, Australia
✟11,131.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Many Christians place the importance of a "Church" as the only means of salvation, when in fact it is the believers themselves that are The Body of Christ.

I hope you realize the irony of your post.
 
Upvote 0

Tyndale

Veteran
Feb 3, 2007
1,920
127
United kingdom
✟17,561.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Conservative
Acts 7:38

38 This is he that was in the church in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sina and with our fathers. Who received the words of life to give unto us.

Considering that the the Jews knew Greek, I'd imagine they know the word "church".

This is maybe slightly off topic but you highlighted an important verse. The church in the wilderness is in the time of Moses, so the church excisted even before the time of Christ.

In Psalms 22:22, the hebrew word 'qahal' is used to describe the church. The church in the OT can be described as Israel, the people.

In Romans 9:4, Paul asks the question " Who are Israelites". Paul is asking who belongs in Gods congregation.
 
Upvote 0

Tyndale

Veteran
Feb 3, 2007
1,920
127
United kingdom
✟17,561.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Conservative
Many Christians place the importance of a "Church" as the only means of salvation, when in fact it is the believers themselves that are The Body of Christ.

Good point, but to be part of the body of Christ, you must have hope and charity (love). 1 Cor 13:13
 
Upvote 0

Anglian

let us love one another, for love is of God
Oct 21, 2007
8,092
1,246
Held
✟28,241.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Well, the Greek and the Coptic Orthodox Churches, who both received the Gospel in the Greek use the word 'Church', but I guess Judaic Christians see it otherwise; but I can't quite see why. The word 'Trinity' is not in the Bible either, but all orthodox Christians believe in it; same with 'Church', even on the Judaic Christian view.

A storm in a chalice perhaps?

peace,

Anglian
 
Upvote 0

CreedIsChrist

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2008
3,303
193
✟4,612.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "'churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples!
lol, how quite convenient for Tyndale.

Nah, he wasn't trying to make any hidden comparisons... was he? NAH! lol



Personally what I think St. Thomas More said about Tyndale was quite correct...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "a hell-hound of the kennel of the devil who discharged blasphemies of his brutish, bestely mouth."[/FONT]
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,589
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "'churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples!
lol, how quite convenient for Tyndale.

Nah, he wasn't trying to make any hidden comparisons... was he? NAH! lol

Personally what I think St. Thomas More said about Tyndale was quite correct...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"a hell-hound of the kennel of the devil who discharged blasphemies of his brutish, bestely mouth."[/FONT]
Where did you get that quote [that I have in quotes] from CIC?

And I really don't care much about your opinion on Tyndale. I am sure we can dredge up a few things said by others in the past about your past Popes ;)

Anywho, here is how a few translations render it Acts 19:37, and it is beyond me how Tyndale came up with "churches" in this verse :confused:

Young) Acts 19:37 `For ye brought these men, who are neither temple-robbers nor speaking evil of your goddess;

Rotherham) Acts 19:37 For ye have brought these men, neither as temple-robbers, nor as defaming our goddess.

Textus Rec.) Acts 19:37 hgagete gar touV andraV toutouV oute ierosulouV oute blasfhmountaV thn qean umwn
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0