When I read scripture, I clearly see that the gifts are for today. I believe that Jesus taught healing by faith although I disagree with what kind of faith most charismatic churches teach.
I don't want to discuss whether or not the gifts are for today. I know where I stand on that point. My issue is finding teachers thar I can trust. As of now, I do not trust most of the teachers that agree with my doctrine stance. In my opinion, they are charlatans squeezing money out of their congregation. People like Andrew Wommack, Todd White etc align themselves with Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn. I just can't. Thry have turned the gospel in a merchandise empire and I've seen enough of their conferences to make me sick. The fake tongues and false healings followed with a guilt trip to give money are just too much.
The other option is teachers that go against what I find I'm scripture. Those who call out these charlatans are part of the other extreme. They tend to be cessacionist or calvinist. I wholeheartedly disagree with these beliefs.
As you can see, this leaves me all alone. I understand that we are to study on our own. I agree. Sometimes it's nice to listen and to glean off of others. I just can't find anyone. The ones who agree with what I see look like charlatans and the other side reminds me of the Pharisees.
Anyone here that beliefs in the gifts, healing etc and agree that most of gift teachers are frauds? If so, who do you go to? Also, what are your thoughts on all this? Why has the continuisism side of the church fallen into such a money hungry spectacle with barely any real signs of the gifts?
I hope I made some sense on where I'm struggling.
Faith is faith, it does not change on God's end, At any given time you either have it or not. It can grow from hearing God and the word though. The problem with faith teaching is that many are too superficial thinking they have it and instead they are just presuming to have it. Also just because you had faith for X, does not mean you also have faith for Y. Even if both are healings you need, your going to need confidence in God for each situation.
Some try to mimic the gifts by stirring things up in the flesh. They take a pattern that worked once before and try to copy that. That is not stirring it up spiritually as what Paul meant to Timothy. With that said, most word of faith teachers go to the hospital if they need it.
There is a merchandising problem in the church. I try not to to judge in this area, God handled the sons of Eli and he has handled some of those ministers who focused on riches. I don't say that every preacher has to remain poor either. If someone has a 1000 member church they should get a salary that affords them quite a bit. I do share much of your frustration though with so much wasted effort on raising money for ministry income that is excessive.
Some of my comments are not for gifts of healing either, but rather for healing through personal faith. But in looking at the gifts of healings are many frauds? Some yes, but I think there are some who have genuine healings. God is not going to turn away real faith to an unsuspecting visitor. Even a fraud preaching the gospel can get someone saved, so I think too they can get someone healed. (In both instances God has to be involved and His compassion for the lost and sick is amazing but He could also do it some other way, so of course that issue is His will. The gifts though are given without repentance and we know the word of God can work through an imperfect vessel. I have seen many think they are healed, speaking it as true but in the end it is just hope and they have to continue on Let's be clear too that prophetic frauds seem more prolific in the church. They are easier to carry out in the flesh especially when there is little accountability.
So where do you turn if you believe the gifts are for real. Yes, you can do much on your own. For me, I stay with the earlier generation of charismatics that got much of this going in the first place. I do this because they were all rapture believers something that many of the new charismatics are not. They also had lasting fruit, that is visible in some cases lasting even after their death. In the prophetic, end times may matter greatly, because if you have the wrong end times belief there is the potential for errors,. This is especially true of any doctrine that is contrary to God but if your including any foretelling of future events the wrong end time scenario certainly could take you off course. I do not trust those ministries either that always can order up healings for any service. It is always as the spirit wills, not as we will.
1 Corinthians 14:26 "What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together,
everyone has a psalm or
a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church."
This is the church I look for. One with a diffusion of power, because everyone has a chance to share and participate in the flow of the Holy Spirit. The one-man-band days should be over, the only exception might be evangelism, but even the most successful evangelists carried teams of ministers with them and often allowed the local church pastors a role in their great meetings.
Back to your questions of who you can trust? I think you just trust God and glean what the Holy Spirit gives you from whatever ministry you feel is feeding you in the area you are looking. I think the starting point though is how the handle the faith message and what you believe there, the other beliefs too matter and whether they are at least flexible in their outlook. I would look to those that were successful though.
For miracles and healings I like T.L. Osborn and Reinhard Bonnke. I think too you can go back to Smith Wigglesworth, and maybe someone like Kathryn Kuhlman or K.E. Hagin. Of course no one is perfect, and yes all of these have their critics. But did they impress the body of Christ to launch out in the gifts and blaze a trail that can be followed even closer? I believe yes. I would just look at what they say and teach about the gifts but I would expect that if a church really were open in a service and taught all members to be ready to participate that we could see more healings and the gifts operate in the church. Some old school preachers like Dave Roberson taught that you have to pay the price in prayer. Desire earnestly the gifts is more than just a longing, but Roberson taught the access and continued success comes through prayer, including praying in tongues and through the resulting revelation that one gets from listening to God and gaining a true understanding of the word. Since everyone's path is somewhat unique in God, this is the foundation regardless whether one believes in any specific ministers or not.
So I guess to sum up, build on what you can receive from others, and push through with your own efforts in the word and prayer. Desire the gifts to manifest God's glory for Himself and you should end up successful in what God has for you. God bless.
