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The Unbalanced View Of Christ

Gregory Thompson

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What I said was in Scripture according to Scripture.

I am used to talking to atheists who hate being told what I am writing is in the Bible or Christians who already know Scripture and scriptural principles.

So I don't reference chapter and verses as if I'm a teacher. But I almost always talk about Biblical principles and Bible verses... It's fairly rare I don't..

In order to know whether something is unjust, you have to know what is actually just in the end. So yes, we judge. And nothing in the Bible says not to, we have to or we will fall into deception.

We just can't do so when we sit blinded by our own sins and we don't hold in our hand what is God's.

But if there's a way that is right and just for a man to walk in, then that is the way we must uphold before men. Not wrongly or hypocritically, but justly and rightly.
I recognized the arguments and understand there is scripture behind them, but I disengage from discussions when it becomes a scripture vs scripture discussion, then it is no longer edifying.

The underlying issue that came to me recently, is "scripture is used, but the thought process is not developed according to scripture" so I just end up needing to acknowledge: Yes, that is in the bible, and that's it.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I recognized the arguments and understand there is scripture behind them, but I disengage from discussions when it becomes a scripture vs scripture discussion, then it is no longer edifying.

The underlying issue that came to me recently, is "scripture is used, but the thought process is not developed according to scripture" so I just end up needing to acknowledge: Yes, that is in the bible, and that's it.

Okay, how is it not developed according to Scripture to tell people, for example, that murder is a sin against God and man, and as such shouldn't be engaged in for the good of the society we live in?

How is that not Scriptural to say - even to say to the murderer?
 
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ozso

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The translation of don't judge through liberalism means keeping your mouth shut about abortion, sexual immorality, narcotics use, illegal border crossings, worldliness, particular forms of depravity etc.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Okay, how is it not developed according to Scripture to tell people, for example, that murder is a sin against God and man, and as such shouldn't be engaged in for the good of the society we live in?

How is that not Scriptural to say - even to say to the murderer?
From Galatians, the only thing that matter is faith that works its way through love. In general, if you look at a post and see the fruit of the spirit in the process, that's what is desired.

In terms of murder, using the societal argument doesn't work since police murder people, and military people murder people. Thus creating a double standard, causing all attention to tune out said words.

However, from a spiritual perspective, a murderer has no eternal life in them. Thus murder occurring in various places creates a zone of "no eternal life" making the work of God through the redeemed all that more difficult.

When the courts integrate "victim impact statements" that's going in the right direction. Instead of stating "it is wrong" .. Stating how it caused harm to others, and how this act impacted society as a whole. Some people don't care about this, but if they do later on, they might have a reason to re-think how they live going forward. God can work with repentance to change the heart.

After writing the above, I think my main objection was the putting the burden on the christian to convince people of things. However, Paul spoke of this, to not use eloquent words to convince people lest the cross be emptied of its power.

God bless.
 
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Hazelelponi

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From Galatians, the only thing that matter is faith that works its way through love. In general, if you look at a post and see the fruit of the spirit in the process, that's what is desired.
Okay two points on this. First you said "post" - so you mean what you see in writing?

I don't believe you can properly judge a person based on writing. Writing doesn't take into consideration body language, facial expressions, tone, education level because that might not be as readily obvious, cultural differences and so forth.

Writing is such a small part that I don't believe you can say Oh, I don't think this person is Christian.

Writing doesn't show you how much physical pain I might be in, whether I'm tired and missing your point etc.

Online I do try very hard to give everyone the benefit of the doubt even if it seems crazy to me - though granted imperfectly and it has been getting much more difficult lately... Lol. (Politics has truly gotten particularly nasty)

As to the second point, love is not always giving people whatever they want - in my opinion. It's looking at the whole of a matter and considering what is actually best or right.

So sometimes it will say and do the hard things. Even God says (Revelation 3:19) those whom I love I rebuke and discipline so be earnest and repent.

But we should first seek to not have anything to repent of, as children of the living God.

In terms of murder, using the societal argument doesn't work since police murder people, and military people murder people. Thus creating a double standard, causing all attention to tune out said words.

Murder is the unjust killing or unjustifiable killing of a person.

The government actually bears the sword under God's authority so they have a responsibility before God on punishing the evildoer and such. Romans 13:4-7

Granted, sometimes governments cross the line into becoming evildoers and when that happens we see time and again in Scripture that God uses nations (national government's and their military) to punish other nations who don't repent.

We do have to consider that police are armed and we should be respectful of both their authority as well as the fact they do have the authority to use force if they are in a position they might need to in any of our own interactions with them.

However, from a spiritual perspective, a murderer has no eternal life in them. Thus murder occurring in various places creates a zone of "no eternal life" making the work of God through the redeemed all that more difficult.

Okay .

When the courts integrate "victim impact statements" that's going in the right direction. Instead of stating "it is wrong" .. Stating how it caused harm to others, and how this act impacted society as a whole. Some people don't care about this, but if they do later on, they might have a reason to re-think how they live going forward. God can work with repentance to change the heart.

God always works with the repentant I agree

After writing the above, I think my main objection was the putting the burden on the christian to convince people of things. However, Paul spoke of this, to not use eloquent words to convince people lest the cross be emptied of its power.

God bless.

Christians are the ones with the Truth, and the responsibility to share our faith with the lost as a Church.

Therefore, it is God who has placed the burden upon us.

It's not about using eloquent words, it's about loving both God and neighbor.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Murder is the unjust killing or unjustifiable killing of a person.
Agreed. However, police and military still commit murder, so arguing on a societal level is still problematic.
Okay two points on this. First you said "post" - so you mean what you see in writing?
The main deal when reading a post is the question "how will this be applied"

Certain recursive patterns in the writing style indicate an obsession, addiction, or need to control others - which is a sin. This is a very common sin amongst church goers, it is behavior people just pick up from one another and the pastor.

However, covetousness is a sin, so seeing the evidence of sins within the thinking process, I must contemplate the matter further.
 
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rjs330

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I'm curious what you want Christ to be "balanced" with? Is God not unbalanced light, with no shadow of variance? Balance implies that there are two competing forces that are pulling against each other. So do you want to balance Jesus' goodness with a bit of evil? Or how exactly do you mean that our image of Jesus must be "balanced"?
Is that what you really think? Balance only deals with opposites of good and evil?
 
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rjs330

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In general, we should treat others the way God has treated us. Since God regards some of the least of humanity as His proxy: the way we treat them, God will deem this our treatment of Him.
What you do to the least of these you do unto me?

Of course. I'll be honest I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. Let's clear that up shall we?

I think we agree rhat we ought to give to the poor, give to the thirsty, help those in need, forgive those who have wronged us etc.

Do we agree that proving what is well-pleasing unto the Lord; and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove them?

Do we agree that we should also.preach repentance?
 
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Fervent

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Is that what you really think? Balance only deals with opposites of good and evil?
No, which is why I asked what exactly it is you think we need to balance the image of a loving and merciful Christ with. Do you want to be treated according to your sins?
 
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rjs330

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As to the second point, love is not always giving people whatever they want - in my opinion. It's looking at the whole of a matter and considering what is actually best or right.

So sometimes it will say and do the hard things. Even God says (Revelation 3:19) those whom I love I rebuke and discipline so be earnest and repent.

But we should first seek to not have anything to repent of, as children of the living God.
I absolutely love this. This is spot on and takes i to consideration the whole of scripture and not just a part. To me that is the Crux of the matter. Too often we only accept the parts that make us feel good or the parts that we like and reject anything else. Or, as we have seen in the past we will OVEREMPHASIZE o e part over another. That's where we end up in legalism.

Too often what I see in some discussions, and we see it in this thread a bit, an overemphasis on the "nice Jesus", and a rejection of the judgmental Jesus. Which then translates into the "we can only be loving and that it's not loving to show someone that they are fallen creatures and the acts they are committing are separating them from the loving God who wishes to bring them into his kingdom.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Do we agree that we should also.preach repentance?
Yeah, preaching, being an example of repentance. Speak or let your actions speak for you.

(could probably start another thread on the unbalanced view on repentance)
 
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FireDragon76

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I am.postimg this here rather than theology, because we are seeing today how an unbalanced view of Christ is affecting Christians philosophy and ethics. Including entire churches. These philosophies are driving people on how they vote and what they support in society. It also drives them to consider themselves the "better Christians".

This unbalanced understanding of Christ is usually presented as things like:
1. Jesus taught us to love our neighbors
2. Jesus taught forgiveness
3. Jesus taught mercy
5. Jesus taught kindness
6. Jesus didn't tell people how they had to live
7. Jesus taught us to give

This unbalanced approach leads people to come to false conclusions about other believers, mainly conservative or more fundamental believers. These falsities lead them to conclude that more conservative believers

1. Hate people
2. Don't want to help people
3. They are misogynistic
4. They are bigots
5. They are mean
6. They just don't care about people
7. They want to.control everyone

You say it's unbalanced, but give no evidence to persuade us to the contrary, just protestations of alleged unfairness.


How to we know that the unbalanced believers are actually unbalanced and not correct? I mean didn't Christ preach and show us
1. How to live
2. How to forgive
3. How to have mercy
4. How to be kind
5. How to live non-judgmentally
6. How to give?

Don't play coy... that's not what this is about. Progressive and liberal Christians accept all those things as true. However, we don't necessarily understand the Bible in a fundamentalist manner. We believe it has to be read in its historical context, in light of reason, modern science, and lived experience. We also take Christian ethics alot more seriously, whereas it seems like many conservative Evangelicals are not particularly morally serious in their religion.
 
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FireDragon76

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Maybe when Christians on the whole can show they understand that mental illness is an actual phenomenon and that people really do need care and compassion because life is so stressful and at times debilitating, then we can all get on a similar hermeneutical page when reading and applying the Bible.

Amen. There was a well known Scottish Presbyterian pastor, Ian MacLaren, who wrote almost two centuries ago, "Be pitiful to everyone, because everyone you meet is fighting a great battle". Life is hard, don't heap up crosses on other people they can't carry.

It often feels like the Christian Right believes living their vision of a godly life is salubrious, straightforward, and simple., oblivious to the privilege and cultural context that makes that possible.
 
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