The Secret Rapture and 7 year Tribulation is Not In The Bible

[tharkun73]

The Day of the Lord has segments. On my chart are those segments....

This doesn't resolve the contradiction you have for yourself; it's simply a restatment of what you believe. Either the LORD alone is exalted during that day or He isn't. Which is it?

 

[tharkun73]

The resurrection/rapture event will be before the Day of the Lord begins and also Jesus' return.

Again, this is just a statement of what you believe and not a rebuttal to the point I made.

 

[Douggg]

Can you show me where it says that the Last Day is made up of segments?

I did not write that the Last Day is made up of segments. But the Day of the Lord.

Here is kjv search for "day of the Lord"....

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/search.php?q=day+of+the+Lord&bsec=&order=0&s=1

 

[Douggg]

This doesn't resolve the contradiction you have for yourself; it's simply a restatment of what you believe. Either the LORD alone is exalted during that day or He isn't. Which is it?

I don't have a contradiction. During the great tribulation segment, the unsaved world will exalt the Antichrist person. During the millennium segment, the world will exalt the Lord.

 

[tharkun73]

I don't have a contradiction. During the great tribulation segment, the unsaved world will exalt the Antichrist person. During the millennium segment, the world will exalt the Lord.

The context of Is 2:11-22 is of His judgment, not the Millenium. By the time the MIllenium starts, the judgment will be over. But your chart has the AoD and GT as part of the DotL. The AC can't be exalted and the LORD alone be exalted during the GT if the GT is truly part of the DotL.

 

[Douggg]

The context of Is 2:11-22 is of His judgment, not the Millenium. By the time the MIllenium starts, the judgment will be over. But your chart has the AoD and GT as part of the DotL. The AC can't be exalted and the LORD alone be exalted during the GT if the GT is truly part of the DotL.

The great tribulation is not all of the Day of the Lord, it is one segment. Jesus returns at the end of that segment and executes judgment and the beast-king (the Antichrist person) will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[tharkun73]

The great tribulation is not all of the Day of the Lord, it one segment. Jesus returns at the end of that segment and executes judgment and the beast-king (the Antichrist person) will be cast into the lake of fire.

The GT isn't any part of the DotL. Your belief contradicts what is revealed in Matt 24 and Joel 2. Per Joel, the DotL doesn't begin until after the triple sign in the sky; Jesus places this sign after the GT. The order is GT -> triple sign -> DotL as given by a comparison of those two passages.

 

[1Tonne]

I did not write that the Last Day is made up of segments. But the Day of the Lord.

Here is kjv search for "day of the Lord"....

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/search.php?q=day+of+the+Lord&bsec=&order=0&s=1

When speaking of the Day of the Lord, you say that it is a time period divided up into segments. This is separate from the Last Day.
I believe that the Day of the Lord and the Last Day, are the same thing.

The Last Day is When the Resurrection and Judgment Occur
Jesus repeatedly refers to the last day as the time when the dead will be raised:
-John 6:39-40, 44, 54 – Jesus says He will raise believers on the last day.
-John 11:24 – Martha expects the resurrection to happen on the last day.
-John 12:48 – Jesus says judgment happens on the last day.

Since resurrection and judgment happen on the last day, any event that includes final judgment must be the same as the last day.

The Day of the Lord is When Christ Returns in Judgment
The Day of the Lord is consistently described as a day of divine intervention, judgment, and destruction of the wicked:
-2 Peter 3:10 – "The Day of the Lord will come like a thief… the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed."
-1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 – "The Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night... sudden destruction will come upon them."
Conclusion: If the Day of the Lord is when judgment happens, and judgment happens on the last day (John 12:48), then they must be the same event.

Both "The last day" & "The day of the Lord" Mark the End of History and the Beginning of Eternity
-The last day marks the resurrection and final judgment (John 6:39-40, Revelation 20:11-15).
-The Day of the Lord marks the destruction of the wicked and renewal of creation (2 Peter 3:10-13).
-Both result in the eternal state—new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1).
If both events bring about the same ultimate outcome, they must be referring to the same day.

• The last day is when resurrection and judgment happen (John 6:40, 12:48).
• The Day of the Lord is when final judgment happens (2 Peter 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 5:2).
• Both describe the same climactic moment—Christ’s return, the destruction of the wicked, the resurrection, and the beginning of eternity.

Thus, the last day and the Day of the Lord are the same event.

 

[Douggg]

The GT isn't any part of the DotL. Your belief contradicts what is revealed in Matt 24 and Joel 2. Per Joel, the DotL doesn't begin until after the triple sign in the sky; Jesus places this sign after the GT. The order is GT -> triple sign -> DotL as given by a comparison of those two passages.

In 2Thessalonians2:1-4, the day of Christ, i.e. the day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood in 2Thesslaonians2:4.

 

[tharkun73]

In 2Thessalonians2:1-4, the day of Christ, i.e. the day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood in 2Thesslaonians2:4.

No, it doesn't. The AoD occurs at the beginning of the last 3.5 yrs (Dan 12:11, Matt 24:15). Then, the GT takes place (Matt 24:21). Those days (not the 3.5 yr period - but the length of the GT within that period) are cut short (Matt 24:22). Then the triple sign occurs in the sky (Matt 24:29, Joel 2:31), per Joel 2:31 this explicitly takes BEFORE the DotL and signals the immediate onset of the DotL (Rev. 6:17). Then appears the sign of the Son of Man with the blowing of a great trumpet (Matt 24:30, Is 27:13, Zech 9:14, I Cor 15:52). Then the gathering of His people to the skies (Matt 24:31, I Thess 4:17).

The order, per the scriptures above is:

-Mdpt--|----------------GT----------------- | ------------------------------SIgns in the sky---------------------------------- | -----DotL--------->
AoD --> GT begins --> GT is cut short --> Triple sign in the sky -->SIgn of the Son of Man (lightning & trumpet) -->Gathering in the sky

2 Thess 2: 1-4 doesn't say that the DotL begins when the AC goes into the temple, it only says that it won't begin until the apostasy and the AoD happen - not the same thing. JUst becasue one thing must happen before another, it doesn't logically follow or mean that the second thing occurs as soon as the first does. I got engaged before I got married, but I didn't get married on the same day.

 

[Douggg]

2 Thess 2: 1-4 doesn't say that the DotL begins when the AC goes into the temple, it only says that it won't begin until the apostasy and the AoD happen - not the same thing. JUst becasue one thing must happen before another, it doesn't logically follow or mean that the second thing occurs as soon as the first does. I got engaged before I got married, but I didn't get married on the same day.

The act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonains2:4 is not the abomination of desolation. But the transgression of desolation of Daniel 8:13. It will end the peace and safety of 1Thessalonians5:3, and the Day of the Lord begun.

The abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11 is "setup'. It will be a statue image.

First, the ToD act. Then a little later, the AoD setup, placed on the tempel mount.

 

[tharkun73]

Where is the DotL in all that?

 

[Douggg]

Where is the DotL in all that?

I updated my chart to show the "Day of the Lord begins" and the "great tribulation begins".

If you will notice, the great tribulation begins on day 1185 of the 7 years. That is 1335 days before the day that Jesus returns on, day 2520. Based on the time frames given in Daniel 12:11-12.

We aren't informed when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation on the timeline. So there is no day indication for that.

 

[tharkun73]

This still disagrees with Jesus and Job: AoD, then GT, then triple sign, then DotL.

 

[Douggg]

This still disagrees with Jesus and Job: AoD, then GT, then triple sign, then DotL.

In 1Thessalonians5:1-3, the Day of the Lord begins like a thief in the night - at a time when the world will be saying peace and safety.

The signs in heaven will be near the end of the great tribulation - the world will be in great tribulation at that time - not saying "peace and safety".

Instead, the Day of the Lord will begin before the AoD/great tribulation begins.... as shown on my chart. Notice on the chart, the white horse rider and the red horse rider.

The rider of the white horse, the Antichrist, Israel's though to-be-messiah, is when peace and safety is being said. Then when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation, war will break out in reaction, the rider on the red horse. That's when the revealed man of sin will be assassinated.

 

[Douggg]

@tharkun73

Understanding the stages that the little horn person goes through on his way to becoming the beast-king is critical to putting things together regarding peace and safety, then later the great tribulation. Notice the timing of the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39.

Another key is the understanding of Ezekiel 39, because that chapter provides the framework for the 7 years and the Antichrist's activities during those 7 years.

 

[Douggg]

@tharkun73

Here is my chart that goes through the path of events of the 7 years, start to finish. Just follow the red line from upper left to lower right. I show the 4 riders on the horses at different points on the chart.