The Secret Rapture and 7 year Tribulation is Not In The Bible

[1Tonne]

The passages you are referring to, speak of a general resurrection. That general resurrection will be for the Great White Throne judgment.

It does not say a generational resurrection. Where does it say that?

 

[Douggg]

It does not say a generational resurrection. Where does it say that?

"general" not generational. "general" in the sense that both saved persons and unsaved persons are resurrected. For the Great White Throne judgement.

Differently, only saved persons are resurrected in....

1. the resurrected/rapture event which will be before the great tribulation begins.

2. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints which will be after the great tribulation is over.

 

[1Tonne]

"general" not generational. "general" in the sense that both saved persons and unsaved persons are resurrected. For the Great White Throne judgement.

Yes. It is a general resurrection of all people. Both saved and unsaved for the Great White Throne judgement. This we agree on.

Differently, only saved persons are resurrected in....

1. the resurrected/rapture event which will be before the great tribulation begins.

2. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints which will be after the great tribulation is over.

The point we differ on is point 1. I do not see evidence that we will be raptured out. I have seen verses that could be implied if taken out of context. But no evidence.
For instance, you used 1 Thes 5:9-11 as evidence that we will not go through the tribulation. But if you read the verses before to keep it in context, especially verse 2, you will see that these verses are actually for the Day of the Lord. So, the last day, Judgement Day. The general resurrection at the end of time. Not the rapture.
"For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night." 1 Thes 5:2

 

[Douggg]

For instance, you used 1 Thes 5:9-11 as evidence that we will not go through the tribulation. But if you read the verses before to keep it in context, especially verse 2, you will see that these verses are actually for the Day of the Lord. So, the last day, Judgement Day. The general resurrection at the end of time. Not the rapture.
"For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night." 1 Thes 5:2

Allow me to set the scene for you of how 1Thessalonains5 is going to take place.

Sometime in the next 5 or 6 years, Russia and the muslim nations in the middle east are going to try and invade Israel. That invasion will be the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39. Their armies will be supernaturally destroyed by God.

Then in Ezekiel 39:9, there will be 7 years that will follow. Those 7 years are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27, that the prince that shall come confirms the covenant for 7 years.

The prince that shall come will be the little horn person of Daniel 7-8. He will come from north and west of Israel, Daniel 8:9, accompanied with a strong army. That army will be that of the EU.

The premise of his coming will be to act as a peace keeper in the region, in the aftermath of Gog/Magog. He will be a Jew.

The Jews (Judaism), many of them, expect their messiah to arrive right after Gog/Magog. And they also expect a return of Elijah, the prophet, who will tell them who the messiah is.

The false prophet of Revelation will at first be thought to be Elijah by the Jews, and he will tell them that the little horn, prince that shall come, is the messiah. The Jews will buy into it. And the false prophet will anoint the little horn person as the king of Israel, thought-to-be messiah. And the (false) messianic age begins.

That's how the world will be saying peace and safety, when it will be shattered, when the Day of the Lord begins like a thief in the night.

The thief in the night act will be when about 3 years into the 7 years of the false messiah's (the Antichrist's) reign, the Antichrist goes into the temple (to be built), sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. In Daniel 8:13, that act is called the "transgression of desolation".

God in reaction to the Antichrist's act that reveals him as the man of sin, in Ezekiel 28:1-10 has him assassinated (the mortal wound of Revelation 13). Then in Isaiah 14:18-20, in total disdain for the person, because of his act and also that he is Jew who in doing so betrays his own people - God does not allow him the honor of being buried in an fancy tomb, and returns his soul back to his lifeless body... also as part of God's divine plan to end Satan's impact over the nations.

Brought back to life, the revealed man of sin becomes the beast of Revelation 13, a king that the unsaved world will wonder over his coming back to life. And will worship him, thinking his claim of being God is true.

The false prophet will have a statue image of him made and placed on the temple mount - the abomination of desolation - that begins the great tribulation - a time when people of the world will be required to take the mark of the beast, or the number of his name, or his name itself in order to buy or sell,.

During the great tribulation, God's wrath in the form of the trumpet plagues and vials of God's wrath plagues will take place.

But what it says in 1Thesslaonians5:9-11 is that we Christians are not appointed to that time of wrath. Hence the resurrection/rapture event will take place before the Antichrist's commits the transgression of desolation act.

Do you see that on my rapture timing chart ? And if you look closely, you will see annotated the 3 different resurrections. That of the resurrection/rapture. That of the great tribulation martyred saints resurrection. That of the resurrection of the rest of the dead for the Great White Throne judgment.

 

[Douggg]

@1Tonne

Who is that little horn person and the false prophet ? We don't know for certain right now, a little too early. But I am keeping my eye on Zelensky of Ukraine as maybe being the little horn, and maybe the Yanuka, Rav Shlomo Yehuda as the false prophet. Both Jews.

The parable of the fig tree given by Jesus sets the generation that will see His return and all that happen right before.

1967 + 70 years = 2037, no later than the end of 2037. So minus the 7 years, Gog/Magog should take place before the end of 2030.

 

[tharkun73]

The problem I see with the chart is that it makes the AoD and GT part of the DotL. Scripturally, this cannot be the case. Jesus specifically describes the triple sign in the sky that cuts short the GT. Joel also describes this triple sign and explicitly says that the sign is BEFORE the DoTL. Further, Isaiah says the LORD alone will be exalted during that Day (the DoTL). During the AoD & GT, the AC will be exalted by the world. Given this, the rapture will occur when He returns at the triple sign which will be at an unknown point in the 2nd half of the 70th week.

 

[Douggg]

The problem I see with the chart is that it makes the AoD and GT part of the DotL. Scripturally, this cannot be the case. Jesus specifically describes the triple sign in the sky that cuts short the GT. Joel also describes this triple sign and explicitly says that the sign is BEFORE the DoTL. Further, Isaiah says the LORD alone will be exalted during that Day (the DoTL). During the AoD & GT, the AC will be exalted by the world. Given this, the rapture will occur when He returns at the triple sign which will be at an unknown point in the 2nd half of the 70th week.

First, thanks for taking time to read my post and go over my chart.

I don't disagree with that during the great tribulation that the world will exalt the Antichrist person.

The Day of the Lord will have segments to it. Joel, in Joel 2:30-31 is describing one of the segments that precede Jesus's return. Those signs in the sky are in the sixth seal Revelation 6:12-17.

The resurrection/rapture though is sign less. And at a time when the world is at ease, like in the days of Noah right before the flood.

 

[1Tonne]

During the great tribulation, God's wrath in the form of the trumpet plagues and vials of God's wrath plagues will take place.

But what it says in 1Thesslaonians5:9-11 is that we Christians are not appointed to that time of wrath. Hence the resurrection/rapture event will take place before the Antichrist's commits the transgression of desolation act.

You are adding your own interpretation to the text so that it will fit your theory by taking 1 Thes 5:9-11 out of context. Keep it in context. Read verse 2.
"For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night."

 

[1Tonne]

@1Tonne

Who is that little horn person and the false prophet ? We don't know for certain right now, a little too early. But I am keeping my eye on Zelensky of Ukraine as maybe being the little horn, and maybe the Yanuka, Rav Shlomo Yehuda as the false prophet. Both Jews.

The parable of the fig tree given by Jesus sets the generation that will see His return and all that happen right before.

1967 + 70 years = 2037, no later than the end of 2037. So minus the 7 years, Gog/Magog should take place before the end of 2030.

I have a different opinion. I believe the Mahdi will be the antichrist, and their false Jesus, will be the false prophet. There are many things that point to this being correct.

But this does not matter. This discussion is about the rapture and how verses are taken out of context to make a false theory.

That's how the world will be saying peace and safety, when it will be shattered, when the Day of the Lord begins like a thief in the night.

Are you saying the the Day of the Lord is not the final day?

 

[Douggg]

You are adding your own interpretation to the text so that it will fit your theory by taking 1 Thes 5:9-11 out of context. Keep it in context. Read verse 2.
"For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night."

The context includes verse 3. The world will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

So, why will the world be saying "peace and safety" ? It will be because it will be thinking it has entered the messianic age.

 

[Douggg]

I have a different opinion. I believe the Mahdi will be the antichrist, and their false Jesus, will be the false prophet. There are many things that point to this being correct.

Yes, I acknowledge that some Christian hold that opinion. But would the Muslim worship the Mahdi as the beast of Revelation will be? I think that alone eliminates the Mahdi, Isa scenario.

 

[Douggg]

I have a different opinion. I believe the Mahdi will be the antichrist, and their false Jesus, will be the false prophet. There are many things that point to this being correct.

But this does not matter. This discussion is about the rapture and how verses are taken out of context to make a false theory.

Are you saying the the Day of the Lord is not the final day?

I am saying that the Day of the Lord encompasses the last day, when the Great White Throne judgment takes place.

The Day of the Lord begins with the transgression of desolation act and continues for eternity. There will be segments to it, once it begins.

 

[1Tonne]

I am saying that the Day of the Lord encompasses the last day, when the Great White Throne judgment takes place.

The Day of the Lord begins with the transgression of desolation act and continues for eternity. There will segments to it, once it begins

I do see where you are coming from but I believe it is wrong.

For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night. 1 Thes 5:2

Another verse speaks of how the last day is like a thief in the night and it shows how the last day is the very end. It is in 2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be discovered. 2 Peter 3:10
This verse, which is about the Day of the Lord is also mentioned in Revelation right at the very, very end of the bible. It says,
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea." Rev 21:1

So, 1 Thes 5:9-10 are speaking of the literal last day. Not before.

 

[Dan Perez]

The last day event is in Revelation 20:11-15, when the Great White Throne Judgment takes place.

Here are the three events involving the resurrection of the dead.

1. the resurrection/rapture event - before the great tribulation begins. Taken to heaven, to return with Jesus.
1Thessalonians4:14-18, 1Thessalonians5:9-11

2. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints - right after the great tribulation, and Jesus has returned.
Revelation 20:4-6

3. the resurrection of the last day - for the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:11-15

What is AMAZING , is that no one has not seen that there is not a Greek word called RAPTURE in the Greek text

AND some quote 1 Thess 4:13 when all should BE examining 1 Thess 4:17 , CAUGHT AWAY // HARPAZO , is in

the FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the Plural .

Then in 2 Thess 2:1 says , Now we ask you , brethren , on account of the COMING //PAROUSIA of our Lord Jesus Christ

even our gathering together unto Him


Then in 2 Thess 2:3 No one should thoroughly BECEIVE you in NOT // ME , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE

NEVERRRRRRRRRRR ever in because EXCEPT the DEPARTURE // APOSTASIA ,( means the departure of the Body of Christ )

should come first and the man of SIN should be REVEALED , the son of Destruction .

The DEPAPTURE of the Body of Christ comes FIRST !!

Then 2 Thess 2:4 , The opposing and Exalting himself over all things being called of God or OBJECT of Worship so that

he as god is to sit down into the Temple ( they are in the Great Tribulation here ) exhibiting himself that ne is god .

# 1 First CHRIST , COMING //PAROUSIA for the Body /

# 2 Then the ANTI-CHRIST

# 3 And missed one more verse kin Gal 1:4 , so that He // meaning Christ might TESCUE // EXAIREO all Grace believers

# 4 And here is another one in 1 Thess 3:13 called COMING // PAROUSSIA .

That is why I am DISPENSARKIONAL , PRE-TRI and PER- MILL

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

The last day event is in Revelation 20:11-15, when the Great White Throne Judgment takes place.

Here are the three events involving the resurrection of the dead.

1. the resurrection/rapture event - before the great tribulation begins. Taken to heaven, to return with Jesus.
1Thessalonians4:14-18, 1Thessalonians5:9-11

2. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints - right after the great tribulation, and Jesus has returned.
Revelation 20:4-6

3. the resurrection of the last day - for the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:11-15

What is AMAZING , is that no one has not seen that there is not a Greek word called RAPTURE in the Greek text

AND some quote 1 Thess 4:13 when all should examining 1 Thess 4:17 , CAUGHT AWAY // HARPAZO , in the FIUTURE TENSE

dan p

 

[1Tonne]

Jesus also speaks of the Last Day being the day or Judgement
"The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day. John 12:48

So, let's once again go through the bible verses that show the last day as the day of Judgement.
-In Daniel 12:1-2 it says that people, including the believers, will be raised when the book of life is opened. Some to life and some to death. This corresponds with Revelation 20:12 at the GWT judgement when the book is opened.
-Knowing that Jesus judges everyone at the GWT judgement, Jesus says in John 12:48 that it is the last day.
-Jesus and the disciples all believed that the dead believer would be raised up on the last day. John 6:39 and John 11:23-24. These verses correspond with Daniel 12:1-2 when the book is opened at the GWT judgement.
-2 Peter 3:10 says that the last day is like a thief in the night. It is when the heavens and the earth are destroyed. This corresponds with Revelation 20:11 where the heavens and earth fled away.
- 1 Thes 5:2 corresponds directly with 2 Peter 3:10 when the last day is like a thief in the night. Thus, it is when the heavens and the earth are destroyed as in Revelation 20:11.

So, this clearly shows that the last day is the Day of Judgement. And so therefore 1 Thes 5:9-10 are not saying that we will be taken out of the tribulation, but that we are not under God's condemnation.

It is pretty clear that the last day is when the book of life is opened at the GWT judgement, and the believers are raised and the heavens and the earth are destroyed.

 

[tharkun73]

I don't disagree with that during the great tribulation that the world will exalt the Antichrist person.

Then I don't see how you can have it both ways. If the LORD alone will be exalted during that day, the GT cannot be part of the DotL. Is. 2:11 -
The proud look of man will be abased And the loftiness of man will be humbled, And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.

The Day of the Lord will have segments to it. Joel, in Joel 2:30-31 is describing one of the segments that precede Jesus's return. Those signs in the sky are in the sixth seal Revelation 6:12-17.

I agree with this. But per Jesus these signs occur at the cutting short (i.e. at an unknown time) of the GT when He returns. Matt 24 & Mark 13

The resurrection/rapture though is sign less. And at a time when the world is at ease, like in the days of Noah right before the flood.

This disagrees with Zech 9:14, Matt 24:27 & Luke 17:24 where the DotL and His return are described like lightning.

 

[Douggg]

Then I don't see how you can have it both ways. If the LORD alone will be exalted during that day, the GT cannot be part of the DotL. Is. 2:11 -
The proud look of man will be abased And the loftiness of man will be humbled, And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.

The Day of the Lord has segments. On my chart are those segments.

The beginning segment, when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.

Then the AoD made and setup, the next segment.

Then, the great tribulation segment.

Then, the Jesus's second coming segment.

Then, the millennium segment.

Then, the Great White Throne Judgement segment.

Then, the Eternity segment.

 

[Douggg]

This disagrees with Zech 9:14, Matt 24:27 & Luke 17:24 where the DotL and His return are described like lightning

The resurrection/rapture event will be before the Day of the Lord begins and also Jesus' return.

 

[1Tonne]

The Day of the Lord has segments. On my chart are those segments.

The beginning segment, when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.

Then the AoD made and setup, the next segment.

Then, the great tribulation segment.

Then, the Jesus's second coming segment.

Then, the millennium segment.

Then, the Great White Throne Judgement segment.

Then, the Eternity segment.


View attachment 361981

Can you show me where it says that the Last Day is made up of segments?