The Role of God in Evolutionary Processes

[FireDragon76]

He was up there with Martin Luther when it came to the Catholic Church.

Not really an apt comparison.

Some other Jesuits didn't like his ideas at the time he wrote them, but today there are alot of Catholics familiar with his works, and he had significant influences on theologians like Henri de Lubac. His ideas were far ahead of their time.

 

[Ace777]

Not really an apt comparison.

This is the information I was looking at: "In 1922, he wrote an essay which treated Original Sin in a way contrary to Church teaching. By mistake it went to the Vatican, and Teilhard was nearly excommunicated. He was forbidden to teach or preach; but he wrote secretly, and his pamphlets were passed from hand to hand."

Chardin and the New Religion

 

[FireDragon76]

This is the information I was looking at: "In 1922, he wrote an essay which treated Original Sin in a way contrary to Church teaching. By mistake it went to the Vatican, and Teilhard was nearly excommunicated. He was forbidden to teach or preach; but he wrote secretly, and his pamphlets were passed from hand to hand."

Chardin and the New Religion

That was nearly a century ago. Opinions change. The author of that webpage is a polemicist, and doesn't care to treat Teillhard's fairly. In fact his stance seems opposed to the reforms of Vatican II, as he decries "Modernism".

There is no scientific evidence that humanity descended from a single man and woman, as a literal reading of Genesis would suggests. Therefore, Teillhard refused to interpret Genesis literally, including the belief in original sin.

 

[The Barbarian]

Actually that was a cut and paste from AI. I am glad that you are smarter then the Algorithm. But my son has a degree in computer engineering and they taught him in school that random does not exist. So I assume you must have an engineering degree also.

Physics shows that some things are irreducibly random. Engineering, not so much.

It's just an observed fact.

Aldo Solis et al 2015 Phys. Scr. 90 074034

How random are random numbers generated using photons?​

Abstract​

Randomness is fundamental in quantum theory, with many philosophical and practical implications. In this paper we discuss the concept of algorithmic randomness, which provides a quantitative method to assess the Borel normality of a given sequence of numbers, a necessary condition for it to be considered random. We use Borel normality as a tool to investigate the randomness of ten sequences of bits generated from the differences between detection times of photon pairs generated by spontaneous parametric downconversion. These sequences are shown to fulfil the randomness criteria without difficulties. As deviations from Borel normality for photon-generated random number sequences have been reported in previous work, a strategy to understand these diverging findings is outlined.

 

[stevevw]

I think Gods involvement in evolution began from the very instant He spoke existence into being. From that time everything that has happened including the creation of our earth in its place at the right time to exist in a way that sustained intelligent conscious life that could know Him was set from the beginning.

It was no accident or random chance to end up with what we have today. The universe had to be as big as it is, not to expanding or too little to produce carbon based stars which produce life. The right atoms, chemicals, building blocks and conditions for life were already within the initial creation big bang.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I think Gods involvement in evolution began from the very instant He spoke existence into being. From that time everything that has happened including the creation of our earth in its place at the right time to exist in a way that sustained intelligent conscious life that could know Him was set from the beginning.

It was no accident or random chance to end up with what we have today. The universe had to be as big as it is, not to expanding or too little to produce carbon based stars which produce life. The right atoms, chemicals, building blocks and conditions for life were already within the initial creation big bang.

Very good. I cannot see how the process of evolution could progress by chance. The genetic and biological processes are so involved and complicated that it is impossible to occur by chance. It is an intelligent design, an intelligent process.

 

[stevevw]

Very good. I cannot see how the process of evolution could progress by chance. The genetic and biological processes are so involved and complicated that it is impossible to occur by chance. It is an intelligent design, an intelligent process.

Thats because I don't think it happens by chance. Lets go back before evolution or the creation of life. For life to even occur there had to be many things happen. Even the big band had to happen in a way that would produce a universe for life. Let alone the many factors that go into allowing life on earth to happen.

I think all those parameters had to have been there at the beginning, it had to have had that potential and in fact it was programmed you could say into the mix.

So just like the universe being the result of laws of nature instilled by God so is life. In the In the elements, the chemicals, the atom and the genetic code are Gods laws, His essence if you could call it that which permeates life.

New discoveries in evolution are becoming more teleological in nature to help explain what we are finding as the traditional theory lacks explanatory power. Basically genetics or rather the cell itself are not so programmed and random but are geared towards certain outcomes (certain phenotypes).

The body through cells and tissues organisation and regeneration has a remarkable ability to sense environments and other creatures and have a degree of plasticity in their makeups that allows them to adapt to environments.

Creatures also have an ability to share genetic info and construct their own environments that are suitable and beneficial for them and future generations. Cultural influences and behaviour actually can change the physical reality making living creatures participators in their own evolution rather than being passive players acted upon by some outside force of nature like natural selection.

In fact some of these additional forces that self organise and adapt actually direct what NS can and cannot do thus relgating NS to a less prominant role.

This makes sense if as part of Gods initial creation was that he also installed His laws of nature that are not random or blind but that install into all life and nature itself some self organisation and direction that enables creatures to adapt to the earth God created.

So in some ways inherent in the very beginning were these natural laws of evolution. Spoken by Gods Word for which what we see, what we call existence and life right down to the sub atomic particles and the laws that direct them has be created from.

Physical reality is just the outward expression of Gods Word. Which is amazing that such complexity and vastness can be packed into something so non physical but rather supernatural and spiritual.

 

[Diamond72]

The actual process took hundreds of millions of years.

The first day in Genesis was around 9 billion years.

 

[Diamond72]

I cannot see how the process of evolution could progress by chance.

Probability theory is a branch of mathematics that deals with the analysis of random phenomena. It provides a framework for quantifying the likelihood of different outcomes in uncertain situations.

In probability theory, an event with a probability of 0 is considered impossible, meaning it will never happen. Conversely, an event with a probability of 1 is certain to occur.

 

[Diamond72]

Creatures also have an ability to share genetic info and construct their own environments

If we study the ice core samples we see that the atmosphere during the time of the dinosaurs was very different from what we see today. The sky would have been pink back then instead of blue today. The only species to survive are crocodiles and turtles. They still live a very long life and grow very big in size. Today they still like very wet conditions. It is amazing how big they get when they start off so small.

 

[Panthers]

There is no such thing as evolution in terms of gains.
There is only Devol-ution, in terms of breaking down.
Hence, is why there are no beneficial mutation centers.
The apes were lost tribes from the flood, but devolved rapidly.
(likely because of diet and incest)

 

[stevevw]

If we study the ice core samples we see that the atmosphere during the time of the dinosaurs was very different from what we see today. The sky would have been pink back then instead of blue today. The only species to survive are crocodiles and turtles. They still live a very long life and grow very big in size. Today they still like very wet conditions. It is amazing how big they get when they start off so small.

I read somewhere how due to the extra oxygen in the atmosphere this allowed creatures to grow super sized. The weird thing is most were the exact replicas of todays smaller versions. Especially insects and anthropods. Dragon flies had 20 inch wing spans and millipeds were as long as 5 feet. There were also giant mammals and sea life. But they were very much the same as today just bigger.

 

[stevevw]

There is no such thing as evolution in terms of gains.
There is only Devol-ution, in terms of breaking down.
Hence, is why there are no beneficial mutation centers.
The apes were lost tribes from the flood, but devolved rapidly.
(likely because of diet and incest)
View attachment 354058

What do you mean the apes were lost tribes from the flood.