The most undesirable thing about Christianity is the requirement to die to self

[Bob8102]

In recent times, I have mostly thought that I am a Christian. But then, certain things come to mind which make me wonder. Therefore, I am posting this in “Struggles by Non-Christians.”

I suppose that the single most undesirable thing about Christianity and the Gospel of Christ is the claim that I have to die to myself. That I am sinful and evil by nature is a concept that can be readily realized; the Bible asserts this and the evidence backs that up. But that I have to die to myself in order to be truly alive is really, very hard to take. The whole Christian deal is off if I do not die to myself.

That we are sinful and can do nothing to save ourselves may be very hard for many people to be willing to agree with. But, especially, that combined with the claim that we must each, as individuals, die to ourselves is what makes Christianity so unpalatable. This is the reason that the Christian message is disbelieved and hated. This is the reason why Christians are persecuted.

I have been trying to give my life to Christ, to be saved, to be converted, to be born again, to have passed from death to life, for well over ten years. But each time I have a supposed salvation experience, doubt quickly follows.

JD Greear, in his book Stop Asking Jesus Into Your Heart: How to Know For Sure You Are Saved, says, of his first year in college:

“But no matter what I did, what promises I made, or how many times I asked Jesus into my heart, I could not shake the fear that I was headed for hell.

“That might sound strange, almost delusional, to some people. But if you really believe in heaven and hell, how can you not be desperate to know which one you are headed to? Toward the end of that year, I began to conclude I could never really know. I wasn’t sure what to do. I felt despair, like a dark storm cloud, coming over my heart.”

In recent days, I have mostly thought I am a Christian. But yesterday, when I read Ephesians chapter three, I was so blown away, considering the realities of the kingdom of God, that I thought, ‘I really do not connect with this kingdom like one should.’ That got me to doubting my salvation. On a number of occasions, when I have just thought I had just given my life to Christ, I would think, ‘OK, Ephesians 1:13-14. If I doubt again after this, I’ll just remember to repeat, “Ephesians 1:13-4.”’ It got to where I started repeating that again, this time around. That passage states that when one trusts Christ, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

I believe in salvation-in-a-moment. This is very biblical. The astonishing thing is that your whole eternal destiny can be changed from hell to heaven in a moment. So, I have long sought that moment of salvation. But if I get saved in a moment, but only FOR a moment, then am I really saved?

I have thought, if I am headed for hell, that I should be aware of that fact, so that maybe, someday, something will change and I will then be headed for heaven.

My struggle with seeking an elusive salvation has kept me dysfunctional for over a decade. Sometimes, I think I am saved and try to begin to return to normal functioning. But then the doubt hits again and I go dysfunctional again. This morning, when I woke up, I was thinking positive thoughts about attempts at a career ahead. Then I thought, to turn my back on what the first three chapters of Ephesians say about the kingdom of God, and to get excited about career possibilities, is to be making a typically human, evil decision.

So, more recently this morning, I have returned to thinking about the possibility that maybe the eternal destiny I am headed for is hell. Not to get depressed or anxious about it, but just to realize it. I have thought, ‘If what is causing these doubts is the possibility that I do not want to die to self, then I’ll extricate myself from this struggle emotionally, and just intellectually realize that unless I am willing to die to self, I am not going to heaven.’ No depression, no anxiety. Just the mental acknowledgement of the fact. If I, in my mind, realize that unless I become willing to die to self, I am headed for hell, then, maybe, realizing that fact will eventually lead to something changing in me.

Until I face up to this most undesirable fact of Christianity, I may need to realize that I am not a Christian.

 

[trophy33]

I suppose that the single most undesirable thing about Christianity and the Gospel of Christ is the claim that I have to die to myself.

The gospel of Christ was: "The kingdom of God has come/is coming - believe in it and repent".

Paul's theology is complicated, broad and you do not have to take everything from his wording literally, IMO. Dying to self can just mean that you do not prefer your original, evil desires anymore and that you try to not act on them. Which is not that different from any other ethics system.

It is best to keep things simple and minimalistic. It is frequently the most effective way. Complicating things or diving into details too much makes you frozen, dysfunctional, doubting and anxious.

 

[Bob8102]

The gospel of Christ was: "The kingdom of God has come/is coming - believe in it and repent".

Paul's theology is complicated, broad and you do not have to take everything from his wording literally, IMO. Dying to self can just mean that you do not prefer your original, evil desires anymore and that you try to not act on them. Which is not that different from any other ethics system.

It is best to keep things simple and minimalistic. It is frequently the most effective way. Complicating things or diving into details too much makes you frozen, dysfunctional, doubting and anxious.

What about, 'you must love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your MIND, all of your soul and with all of your strength?' Or whatever the actual wording of that command is.

 

[d taylor]

In recent times, I have mostly thought that I am a Christian. But then, certain things come to mind which make me wonder. Therefore, I am posting this in “Struggles by Non-Christians.”

I suppose that the single most undesirable thing about Christianity and the Gospel of Christ is the claim that I have to die to myself. That I am sinful and evil by nature is a concept that can be readily realized; the Bible asserts this and the evidence backs that up. But that I have to die to myself in order to be truly alive is really, very hard to take. The whole Christian deal is off if I do not die to myself.

That we are sinful and can do nothing to save ourselves may be very hard for many people to be willing to agree with. But, especially, that combined with the claim that we must each, as individuals, die to ourselves is what makes Christianity so unpalatable. This is the reason that the Christian message is disbelieved and hated. This is the reason why Christians are persecuted.

I have been trying to give my life to Christ, to be saved, to be converted, to be born again, to have passed from death to life, for well over ten years. But each time I have a supposed salvation experience, doubt quickly follows.

JD Greear, in his book Stop Asking Jesus Into Your Heart: How to Know For Sure You Are Saved, says, of his first year in college:

“But no matter what I did, what promises I made, or how many times I asked Jesus into my heart, I could not shake the fear that I was headed for hell.

“That might sound strange, almost delusional, to some people. But if you really believe in heaven and hell, how can you not be desperate to know which one you are headed to? Toward the end of that year, I began to conclude I could never really know. I wasn’t sure what to do. I felt despair, like a dark storm cloud, coming over my heart.”

In recent days, I have mostly thought I am a Christian. But yesterday, when I read Ephesians chapter three, I was so blown away, considering the realities of the kingdom of God, that I thought, ‘I really do not connect with this kingdom like one should.’ That got me to doubting my salvation. On a number of occasions, when I have just thought I had just given my life to Christ, I would think, ‘OK, Ephesians 1:13-14. If I doubt again after this, I’ll just remember to repeat, “Ephesians 1:13-4.”’ It got to where I started repeating that again, this time around. That passage states that when one trusts Christ, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

I believe in salvation-in-a-moment. This is very biblical. The astonishing thing is that your whole eternal destiny can be changed from hell to heaven in a moment. So, I have long sought that moment of salvation. But if I get saved in a moment, but only FOR a moment, then am I really saved?

I have thought, if I am headed for hell, that I should be aware of that fact, so that maybe, someday, something will change and I will then be headed for heaven.

My struggle with seeking an elusive salvation has kept me dysfunctional for over a decade. Sometimes, I think I am saved and try to begin to return to normal functioning. But then the doubt hits again and I go dysfunctional again. This morning, when I woke up, I was thinking positive thoughts about attempts at a career ahead. Then I thought, to turn my back on what the first three chapters of Ephesians say about the kingdom of God, and to get excited about career possibilities, is to be making a typically human, evil decision.

So, more recently this morning, I have returned to thinking about the possibility that maybe the eternal destiny I am headed for is hell. Not to get depressed or anxious about it, but just to realize it. I have thought, ‘If what is causing these doubts is the possibility that I do not want to die to self, then I’ll extricate myself from this struggle emotionally, and just intellectually realize that unless I am willing to die to self, I am not going to heaven.’ No depression, no anxiety. Just the mental acknowledgement of the fact. If I, in my mind, realize that unless I become willing to die to self, I am headed for hell, then, maybe, realizing that fact will eventually lead to something changing in me.

Until I face up to this most undesirable fact of Christianity, I may need to realize that I am not a Christian.

-
​

You do not have a salvation experience.

You either believe in God's promise or you do not. What is God's promise, that all who believe in Jesus receive at the very moment of belief God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. At the very moment of belief in Jesus the person who believes becomes a pernamnet born again child of God.

Now what does it mean to believe in Jesus. It is believing Jesus is who He says He is, The Son of God/The promised Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
------------------------------
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life is not a prize to be won by doing something. But a gift to be received by believing in Jesus.

 

[d taylor]

In recent times, I have mostly thought that I am a Christian. But then, certain things come to mind which make me wonder. Therefore, I am posting this in “Struggles by Non-Christians.”

I suppose that the single most undesirable thing about Christianity and the Gospel of Christ is the claim that I have to die to myself. That I am sinful and evil by nature is a concept that can be readily realized; the Bible asserts this and the evidence backs that up. But that I have to die to myself in order to be truly alive is really, very hard to take. The whole Christian deal is off if I do not die to myself.

That we are sinful and can do nothing to save ourselves may be very hard for many people to be willing to agree with. But, especially, that combined with the claim that we must each, as individuals, die to ourselves is what makes Christianity so unpalatable. This is the reason that the Christian message is disbelieved and hated. This is the reason why Christians are persecuted.

I have been trying to give my life to Christ, to be saved, to be converted, to be born again, to have passed from death to life, for well over ten years. But each time I have a supposed salvation experience, doubt quickly follows.

JD Greear, in his book Stop Asking Jesus Into Your Heart: How to Know For Sure You Are Saved, says, of his first year in college:

“But no matter what I did, what promises I made, or how many times I asked Jesus into my heart, I could not shake the fear that I was headed for hell.

“That might sound strange, almost delusional, to some people. But if you really believe in heaven and hell, how can you not be desperate to know which one you are headed to? Toward the end of that year, I began to conclude I could never really know. I wasn’t sure what to do. I felt despair, like a dark storm cloud, coming over my heart.”

In recent days, I have mostly thought I am a Christian. But yesterday, when I read Ephesians chapter three, I was so blown away, considering the realities of the kingdom of God, that I thought, ‘I really do not connect with this kingdom like one should.’ That got me to doubting my salvation. On a number of occasions, when I have just thought I had just given my life to Christ, I would think, ‘OK, Ephesians 1:13-14. If I doubt again after this, I’ll just remember to repeat, “Ephesians 1:13-4.”’ It got to where I started repeating that again, this time around. That passage states that when one trusts Christ, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

I believe in salvation-in-a-moment. This is very biblical. The astonishing thing is that your whole eternal destiny can be changed from hell to heaven in a moment. So, I have long sought that moment of salvation. But if I get saved in a moment, but only FOR a moment, then am I really saved?

I have thought, if I am headed for hell, that I should be aware of that fact, so that maybe, someday, something will change and I will then be headed for heaven.

My struggle with seeking an elusive salvation has kept me dysfunctional for over a decade. Sometimes, I think I am saved and try to begin to return to normal functioning. But then the doubt hits again and I go dysfunctional again. This morning, when I woke up, I was thinking positive thoughts about attempts at a career ahead. Then I thought, to turn my back on what the first three chapters of Ephesians say about the kingdom of God, and to get excited about career possibilities, is to be making a typically human, evil decision.

So, more recently this morning, I have returned to thinking about the possibility that maybe the eternal destiny I am headed for is hell. Not to get depressed or anxious about it, but just to realize it. I have thought, ‘If what is causing these doubts is the possibility that I do not want to die to self, then I’ll extricate myself from this struggle emotionally, and just intellectually realize that unless I am willing to die to self, I am not going to heaven.’ No depression, no anxiety. Just the mental acknowledgement of the fact. If I, in my mind, realize that unless I become willing to die to self, I am headed for hell, then, maybe, realizing that fact will eventually lead to something changing in me.

Until I face up to this most undesirable fact of Christianity, I may need to realize that I am not a Christian.

-
​

J. Wilbur Chapman tells the following true story of how D.L. Moody used John 5:24 to help him gain assurance of salvation:
I was studying for the ministry, and I heard that D.L. Moody was to preach in Chicago. I went to hear him. Finally I got into his after meeting. I shall never forget the thrill that went through me when he came and sat down beside me as an inquirer. He asked me if I was a Christian. I said, “Mr. Moody, I am not sure whether I am a Christian or not.’
He very kindly took his Bible and opened it to the fifth chapter of John, and the twenty-fourth verse, which reads as follows: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and beleiveth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”
Suppose you had read it through for the first time, wouldn’t you think it was wonderful? I read it through, and he said, “Do you believe it?” I said, “Yes.” “Do you accept it?” I said, “Yes.” “Well, are you a Christian?”
“Mr. Moody, I sometimes think I am, and sometimes I am afraid I am not.”
He very kindly said, “Read it again.”
So I read it again, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and beleiveth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”Then he said, “Do you believe it?” I said, “Yes.” “Do you receive Him?” I said, “Yes.” “Well,” he said, “are you a Christian?”
I just started to say over again that sometimes I was afraid I was not, when the only time in all the years I knew him and loved him, he was sharp with me. He turned on me with his eyes flashing and said, “See here, whom are you doubting?”
Then I saw it for the first time, that when I was afraid I was not a Christian I was doubting God’s Word. I read it again with my eyes overflowing with tears.
Since that day I have had many sorrows and many joys, but never have I doubted for a moment that I was a Christian, because God said it.

 

[trophy33]

What about, 'you must love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your MIND, all of your soul and with all of your strength?' Or whatever the actual wording of that command is.

Loving God and living according to it is liberating. But we are not under the Law to be crushed by it or judged by it as by a commandment. Therefore, you do not need to fall into anxiety and stress just because you also need to invest your time or strength elsewhere.

The commandment is basically impossible to be taken literally, anyway.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

In recent times, I have mostly thought that I am a Christian. But then, certain things come to mind which make me wonder. Therefore, I am posting this in “Struggles by Non-Christians.”

I suppose that the single most undesirable thing about Christianity and the Gospel of Christ is the claim that I have to die to myself. That I am sinful and evil by nature is a concept that can be readily realized; the Bible asserts this and the evidence backs that up. But that I have to die to myself in order to be truly alive is really, very hard to take. The whole Christian deal is off if I do not die to myself.

That we are sinful and can do nothing to save ourselves may be very hard for many people to be willing to agree with. But, especially, that combined with the claim that we must each, as individuals, die to ourselves is what makes Christianity so unpalatable. This is the reason that the Christian message is disbelieved and hated. This is the reason why Christians are persecuted.

I have been trying to give my life to Christ, to be saved, to be converted, to be born again, to have passed from death to life, for well over ten years. But each time I have a supposed salvation experience, doubt quickly follows.

JD Greear, in his book Stop Asking Jesus Into Your Heart: How to Know For Sure You Are Saved, says, of his first year in college:

“But no matter what I did, what promises I made, or how many times I asked Jesus into my heart, I could not shake the fear that I was headed for hell.

“That might sound strange, almost delusional, to some people. But if you really believe in heaven and hell, how can you not be desperate to know which one you are headed to? Toward the end of that year, I began to conclude I could never really know. I wasn’t sure what to do. I felt despair, like a dark storm cloud, coming over my heart.”

In recent days, I have mostly thought I am a Christian. But yesterday, when I read Ephesians chapter three, I was so blown away, considering the realities of the kingdom of God, that I thought, ‘I really do not connect with this kingdom like one should.’ That got me to doubting my salvation. On a number of occasions, when I have just thought I had just given my life to Christ, I would think, ‘OK, Ephesians 1:13-14. If I doubt again after this, I’ll just remember to repeat, “Ephesians 1:13-4.”’ It got to where I started repeating that again, this time around. That passage states that when one trusts Christ, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

I believe in salvation-in-a-moment. This is very biblical. The astonishing thing is that your whole eternal destiny can be changed from hell to heaven in a moment. So, I have long sought that moment of salvation. But if I get saved in a moment, but only FOR a moment, then am I really saved?

I have thought, if I am headed for hell, that I should be aware of that fact, so that maybe, someday, something will change and I will then be headed for heaven.

My struggle with seeking an elusive salvation has kept me dysfunctional for over a decade. Sometimes, I think I am saved and try to begin to return to normal functioning. But then the doubt hits again and I go dysfunctional again. This morning, when I woke up, I was thinking positive thoughts about attempts at a career ahead. Then I thought, to turn my back on what the first three chapters of Ephesians say about the kingdom of God, and to get excited about career possibilities, is to be making a typically human, evil decision.

So, more recently this morning, I have returned to thinking about the possibility that maybe the eternal destiny I am headed for is hell. Not to get depressed or anxious about it, but just to realize it. I have thought, ‘If what is causing these doubts is the possibility that I do not want to die to self, then I’ll extricate myself from this struggle emotionally, and just intellectually realize that unless I am willing to die to self, I am not going to heaven.’ No depression, no anxiety. Just the mental acknowledgement of the fact. If I, in my mind, realize that unless I become willing to die to self, I am headed for hell, then, maybe, realizing that fact will eventually lead to something changing in me.

Until I face up to this most undesirable fact of Christianity, I may need to realize that I am not a Christian.

Well.......................... there is a basic reason I think it's obvious that it's "not good that (a) man should be alone."

The problem is that our Modern, Capitalized, Commercial society has learned how to cash in on this obvious fact and make life a psychological, living hell for people, especially for those who are single and struggling to provide even for themselves.

The real problem isn't that Christ asks us to "die to ourselves"; no, it's that the Devil has us thinking there's no other way out from the social "arrangements" we find ourselves in today.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Christianity is based on a spiritual transformation, with a body that keeps breathing.

If one does not die to self, they miss out on the spiritual blessings due to interference from the body.

 

[Bob8102]

Thank you all for your responses. I especially want to respond to D Taylor's post about J Wilbur Chapman, because it is very hope-generating. Jesus said what He said in John 5:24, but he also said - and I just read this again in my regular reading today - 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it produces much grain. He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.' (That's in John 12:24-25.)

To me, there is the possibility that God is reminding me that I must (yet) die to self.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thank you all for your responses. I especially want to respond to D Taylor's post about J Wilbur Chapman, because it is very hope-generating. Jesus said what He said in John 5:24, but he also said - and I just read this again in my regular reading today - 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it produces much grain. He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.' (That's in John 12:24-25.)

To me, there is the possibility that God is reminding me that I must (yet) die to self.

I think you're placing too much emphasis on just one thing Jesus may have said. Sure, we need to turn from the world and do our best to repent of sin, but that doesn't mean we have to expect to utterly and completely go without and expect every decision in life, every goal or every relationship to be riddled by a final spiritual ultimatum.

Maybe concentrate on the portion of in the quote above where Jesus says that "... if it dies, it produces much grain." I think this goes along with what Matthew reports Jesus also said in Matthew 6:25-34, especially verse 33.

But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.​

​

Do you need a companion (i.e. a wife)? Then seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness ..................... which just happens to require turning away from the world in order to follow through each day we live.

 

[timf]

I suppose that the single most undesirable thing about Christianity and the Gospel of Christ is the claim that I have to die to myself.

There is that in human nature that is ultimately self-destructive (selfishness). Buddhists consider the solution is to eliminate desire. However, this is not as easy as one might think. Christians offer the replacement of our own selfish nature with a new nature that sadly too few Christians actually take advantage of.

The design of nature provides an example of the transition away from the selfishness of childhood. When two people marry and have children they have to give up some of their own selfishness for their children.

 

[RDKirk]

First, I believe there is such a thing as a "salvation experience," but it probably doesn't come in a moment. Rather, for me I understand it as a faith experience. Even though I was raised in a Christian household and have always professed Christianity, I do know the point at which I became solidly aware of the pull of faith in a way I know I had not felt before.

As far as "dying to self," that's a philosophically simple concept to me, even if often difficult to perform on a minute-by-minute. It's a matter of willingly and intentionally accepting Jesus as my authority above my own desires and intentions. It's letting Jesus say "No" when my flesh or my mind is saying, "Yes." It's letting Jesus say, "Get up" when my flesh and my mind say, "Give me a good reason, first."

Having been military for a career--that means willingly accepting the concept of someone with command over me, and to a great extent, even preferring it.

I remember when I first began working with Marines (as an Air Force senior NCO). I had been in the unit for a week, had an idea of the workflow. My second Friday, just before lunch, I was looking at the room and thinking about changies I'd want to make. My Marine staff sergeant (who had apparently been watching me) said, "Whatcha looking at, Top?" I explained my thoughts about how the room could be re-arranged for a better workflow. His eyes followed my hand as I pointed and spoke.

Then I want to lunch.

When I came back from lunch...the room had been rearranged according to what I'd said--pretty much nonchalantly--to my staff sergeant. I learned very quickly that you don't tell a Marine a job needs doing...unless you mean it (which was just as true of my Marine colonel). It was kind of like when David was in war with the Philistines who currently held Jerusalem. David wistfully wished he could have a drink of water from the spring in Jerusalem...and was surprised the next morning by his men who had run a midnight secret raid into the enemy-held town to bring him that drink of water. It's like when David had given his men a command not to engage in sexual intercourse while at war, but when David suggested that Uriah should sleep with Bathsheba during a war, Uriah (knowing David's rule) said, "Absolutely not!" He probably thought David was testing him.

But "dying to self" is a simple concept. It means I have willingly submitted myself to the authority of Jesus, and I'm willing to obey even His slightest command. That doesn't mean I'm perfect at it, or even particularly good. Eh, maybe I'm all right. But I try.

 

[Bob8102]

First, I believe there is such a thing as a "salvation experience," but it probably doesn't come in a moment. Rather, for me I understand it as a faith experience. Even though I was raised in a Christian household and have always professed Christianity, I do know the point at which I became solidly aware of the pull of faith in a way I know I had not felt before.

As far as "dying to self," that's a philosophically simple concept to me, even if often difficult to perform on a minute-by-minute. It's a matter of willingly and intentionally accepting Jesus as my authority above my own desires and intentions. It's letting Jesus say "No" when my flesh or my mind is saying, "Yes." It's letting Jesus say, "Get up" when my flesh and my mind say, "Give me a good reason, first."

Having been military for a career--that means willingly accepting the concept of someone with command over me, and to a great extent, even preferring it.

I remember when I first began working with Marines (as an Air Force senior NCO). I had been in the unit for a week, had an idea of the workflow. My second Friday, just before lunch, I was looking at the room and thinking about changies I'd want to make. My Marine staff sergeant (who had apparently been watching me) said, "Whatcha looking at, Top?" I explained my thoughts about how the room could be re-arranged for a better workflow. His eyes followed my hand as I pointed and spoke.

Then I want to lunch.

When I came back from lunch...the room had been rearranged according to what I'd said--pretty much nonchalantly--to my staff sergeant. I learned very quickly that you don't tell a Marine a job needs doing...unless you mean it (which was just as true of my Marine colonel). It was kind of like when David was in war with the Philistines who currently held Jerusalem. David wistfully wished he could have a drink of water from the spring in Jerusalem...and was surprised the next morning by his men who had run a midnight secret raid into the enemy-held town to bring him that drink of water. It's like when David had given his men a command not to engage in sexual intercourse while at war, but when David suggested that Uriah should sleep with Bathsheba during a war, Uriah (knowing David's rule) said, "Absolutely not!" He probably thought David was testing him.

But "dying to self" is a simple concept. It means I have willingly submitted myself to the authority of Jesus, and I'm willing to obey even His slightest command. That doesn't mean I'm perfect at it, or even particularly good. Eh, maybe I'm all right. But I try.

Excellent! Thank you! I just spent the last two hours contemplating the verse I quoted. Maybe I'm beginning to get it. Now it's my bedtime. Good night and God bless you all.