The city on seven hills.

[GingerBeer]

I could argue it is Jerusalem... as Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount of Olives and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built. But there are other cities that can make the same claim. Personally, I don't care. If we spend all our time trying to discern prophetic imagery, we spend less time learning what God desires for each of us in terms of our daily walk AND we are distracted from doing what we all (to one degree or another) have been called to do... learn and then teach others.

What happened to Mount Moriah? It was the temple mount if I remember my bible correctly.

 

[GingerBeer]

Jerusalem is !
She is the Mother of Harlots.

I would have thought that in Jesus' day that would have been Corinth. It was a city famed for its prostitutes.

 

[JIMINZ]

I would have thought that in Jesus' day that would have been Corinth. It was a city famed for its prostitutes.

.
You only need to go back in history, the Old and new Testaments were written to the Jews, and the Christians, Jerusalem is the City of God, why would you even consider this city to be anyplace other than Jerusalem.

Everything culminates in Jerusalem, and the area around it.

 

[GingerBeer]

.
You only need to go back in history, the Old and new Testaments were written to the Jews, and the Christians, Jerusalem is the City of God, why would you even consider this city to be anyplace other than Jerusalem.

Everything culminates in Jerusalem, and the area around it.

Well, the map says it has seven hills so you may be right.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Moscow yet. It is also said to be built on 7 hills - part and parcel of it being the "third Rome" as the Tsars had it.

That is the thing though. 7 hills are a known feature of Rome, and other towns on 7 hills are usually said to be so in imitation thereof - hence Constantinople, the Second Rome, too.
This is also why Cincinnati is 'on 7 hills', as it is ultimately named for Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus, a Roman Dictator, via a military society named in his honour.

So whatever the 7 hills refer to, it is obviously a reference to Rome - whether directly or something that derives therefrom somehow.
I've heard it been said it is Washington DC too, which is also a 'New Rome' - which is why it has a Capitol and Senate, and an Eagle was chosen as US symbol, in Roman imitation.

You can really draw quite polysemous meaning from the phrase.

 

[GingerBeer]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Moscow yet. It is also said to be built on 7 hills - part and parcel of it being the "third Rome" as the Tsars had it.

That is the thing though. 7 hills are a known feature of Rome, and other towns on 7 hills are usually said to be so in imitation thereof - hence Constantinople, the Second Rome, too.
This is also why Cincinnati is 'on 7 hills', as it is ultimately named for Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus, a Roman Dictator, via a military society named in his honour.

So whatever the 7 hills refer to, it is obviously a reference to Rome - whether directly or something that derives therefrom somehow.
I've heard it been said it is Washington DC too, which is also a 'New Rome' - which is why it has a Capitol and Senate, and an Eagle was chosen as US symbol, in Roman imitation.

You can really draw quite polysemous meaning from the phrase.

But Jerusalem is older than Rome and it too is on seven hills and known for it.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

But Jerusalem is older than Rome and it too is on seven hills and known for it.

Jerusalem is not known for seven hills. Upon what are you basing this? It is known for 2 mountains, Zion and Moriah. When reference is made to Jerusalem, that is what is referred to, and 'seven hills' here is dubious at best. What are its seven hills? Do you include Temple Mount or other groups called mountains in this?

The city of the Seven Hills is a known metaphor to refer to Rome though. It is the equivalent of calling New York the Five Burroughs or the Big Apple.
The only reason to apply it to Jerusalem is attempted eisegesis. That the meaning somehow applies to Rome is fairly plain, as it is using a well-known nickname of the place.

 

[GingerBeer]

Jerusalem is not known for seven hills. Upon what are you basing this? It is known for 2 mountains, Zion and Moriah. When reference is made to Jerusalem, that is what is referred to, and 'seven hills' here is dubious at best. What are its seven hills? Do you include Temple Mount or other groups called mountains in this?

The city of the Seven Hills is a known metaphor to refer to Rome though. It is the equivalent of calling New York the Five Burroughs or the Big Apple.

Take a look at post #44 and the map showing the seven hills of Jerusalem. Very famous hills they are too. Zion, Moriah, The Rock (on which stood the fortress Antonia) etcetera.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Take a look at post #44 and the map showing the seven hills of Jerusalem. Very famous hills they are too. Zion, Moriah, The Rock (on which stood the fortress Antonia) etcetera.

Regardless, Jerusalem is not known for seven hills - Rome is. Nor are most of those even called hills. This is very, very weak in my opinion.

If I write about the Five Burroughs, I probably mean New York, not the English Midlands, though historically that had five burroughs too. This is especially true in context, when we are writing about a city of great temporal power - that is Rome in the period, and certainly not Jerusalem.

 

[GingerBeer]

Regardless, Jerusalem is not known for seven hills

Yes it is. Many have commented on it including the apostle John in the Revelation.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Yes it is. Many have commented on it including the apostle John in the Revelation.

Nonsense. First I heard of it.
The only that do so are those that read their own eisegetical meaning into Revelation. This reading makes little to no sense, I am sorry - outside of a particular way people want to interpret the Apocalypse. To be so sure that Jerusalem was what John meant is quite unsupportable. Please show me any other reference to Jerusalem as a city of seven hills, without any eschatological consideration - I doubt you'd find any.

 

[GingerBeer]

Nonsense. First I heard of it.

I am sure that many things are true that you may not yet have heard before but John lived in Jerusalem and knew the city well. He had no difficulty understanding that the city was sitting on seven hills. He walked them time and time again and the temple sat atop one, the Roman garrison lived in a fortress atop another, and David's palace once stood on a third. The other four are easily located. The map shows them. Learning something new ought to be a joy. Even if it challenges one's dearly loved theology.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

I am sure that many things are true that you may not yet have heard before but John lived in Jerusalem and knew the city well. He had no difficulty understanding that the city was sitting on seven hills. He walked them time and time again and the temple sat atop one, the Roman garrison lived in a fortress atop another, and David's palace once stood on a third. The other four are easily located. The map shows them. Learning something new ought to be a joy. Even if it challenges one's dearly loved theology.

It has not been established that Jerusalem IS built on 7 hills.

Firstly, they aren't usually called hills.

Secondly, the borders of 1st century Jerusalem aren't very clear. The city was substantially rebuilt by Hadrian, giving it its more modern shape. That is why the Church of the Holy Sepulcre is within the city, while Jesus was certainly crucified outside it, yet remains a plausible site for it. How many 'hills' it may or may not have had is difficult to determine, but it is mostly just known for its 2 mountains.

Thirdly, the nickname is well attested for another city that fits the description way better. No one else calls it the city of Seven hills, nor is it established that John has done so either. If he had, it is a bit silly - as if speaking of Havana, but metaphorically calling it The Big Apple.

As I said, the argument is exceedingly weak.

 

[GingerBeer]

It has not been established that Jerusalem IS built on 7 hills.

The map shows them and names them so it is in fact built on seven hills.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

The map shows them and names them so it is in fact built on seven hills.

Should I draw you a map that disagrees? Would that disprove yours? The way that map is framed is clearly meant to confirm Jerusalem as ''seven-hilled', it certainly is not a good source at all. Look at the various reconstructions of 1st century Jerusalem and you'll see. There is a thread about that recently posted in the Christian History forum.

Golgotha = Psephinus Tower on western hill ?

This is getting really silly though. We shall just have to disagree. I bid you good day.

 

[GingerBeer]

Should I draw you a map that disagrees?

You can fake a map if you want to. The fact will remain that there are seven named hills of ancient Jerusalem from the time of John's Apocalypse.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

You can fake a map if you want to. The fact will remain that there are seven named hills of ancient Jerusalem from the time of John's Apocalypse.

You and I have a very different idea of what constitutes a 'fact'. Please look at the topographical lines of that very map you posted. Where are these supposed 7 hills? Which again, aren't called hills.

To reiterate, we have not established the layout of 1st century Jerusalem perfectly, so this is a moot point. Your contention is unlikely though.

 

[GingerBeer]

Here's one of the maps you provided, it shows the seven hills

1. Bezetha
2. Church of the holy Sepulchre
3. Antonia (bira)
4. Temple (also called Moriah)
5. Ophel
6. City of David (old Zion)
7. Upper City (new Zion)

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Here's one of the maps you provided, it shows the seven hills

1. Bezetha
2. Church of the holy Sepulchre
3. Antonia (bira)
4. Temple (also called Moriah)
5. Ophel
6. City of David (old Zion)
7. Upper City (new Zion)

You are being silly my friend. The shaded area shows elevation. The previous map makes it even clearer than this one, that there simply isn't 7 separable elevated areas there. You really are clutching at straws.

It is a moot point though, as I said. We shall just have to disagree then. I bid you good day.

 

[Erik Nelson]

In Revelation there is a city on seven hills.

When I saw her I marvelled greatly. But the angel said to me, "Why marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition; and the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to perdition. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind and give over their power and authority to the beast; they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful." (Revelation 17:6-14)​

Some say the city is Rome which is and was famous for its seven hills and some say it is Constantinople which was also built on seven hills (in deliberate imitation of Rome) and some find other cities as the city described in Revelation. Is the passage about an Earthly city that people can find on a map?

Please note that there are two entities described, a "beast" and a "rider" atop.

The "beast" = 7 heads = 7 hills is probably Rome, capital of the pagan empire which persecuted Christians.

The "rider" = sinful woman of "Babylon" = Jerusalem were the Lord was crucified (Rev 11)