Texas Removes 1 Million Registered Voters

[Ana the Ist]

...as I stated earlier, the Governor's claims need further examination. It seems Texas has a history...

".... the governor stressed that more than 6,500 “noncitizens” who shouldn’t have been registered were removed, and approximately 1,930 of those had a voting history.

Ok.

Voter watchdogs such as Alice Clapman, senior counsel at the Brennan Center’s Voting Rights Program, said they want to know more about those voters, because Texas has wrongly flagged people as noncitizens before.

Texas could be wrong....that's definitely a possibility.....

Just assuming they are is pointless though. I don't think an attorney at the Brennan Center Voting Rights Program is going to have the same amount of resources as the state of Texas. I'm sure she can file a freedom of information act request to get access to names and addresses of some people in that group....but I don't think she can get birth certificates and SS numbers.

Erroneously flagging legal voters as noncitizens can occur when outdated information is obtained from naturalized citizens or if someone mistakenly checks the wrong box at the DMV, Clapman said....

Outdated information is likely here....as it's a border state dealing with a vast amount of new information

In 2019, Texas officials flagged 95,000 voters whom they identified as “noncitizens” and accused broadly of voter fraud. After review, it turned out that many of the people identified on the rolls were naturalized citizens. The scandal resulted in the secretary of state resigning. The state abandoned the effort after numerous lawsuits, which resulted in the state setting new guidelines for future voter roll clean-ups.

Texas cleanup of voter rolls raises some questions

The governor said a million people have been dropped since 2021, including thousands of noncitizens. Experts caution against assuming that this is a sign of illegal voting.

www.votebeat.org

So they made mistakes in the past....and some of the people flagged as noncitizens were newly naturalized....and Texas made changes to ensure these mistakes don't happen again?

If anything they're less likely to have made those same mistakes.

This is also a great example of why it should be the voter's obligation to provide the proper evidence of citizenship.

 

[wing2000]

So they made mistakes in the past....and some of the people flagged as noncitizens were newly naturalized....and Texas made changes to ensure these mistakes don't happen again?

One would hope....
However, Gov Abbot is certainly capable of releasing half-baked data to support his political talking point.

 

[Ana the Ist]

One would hope....

Well your article does claim that changes were made to avoid the same mistakes in the future. I certainly prefer that sort of honesty...."Hey we made a mistake when we did this. Here is how we are going to correct it when we do this in the future." That's good governance.

Imagine how much better California would be doing if they had a governor willing to do the same?

Imagine if Gavin Newsome could just come out and say their justice system reforms were a bad idea and they were going to fix them so they worked properly or just outright get rid of the reforms.

They wouldn't need to threaten businesses with fines for simply calling the police to report thefts.

Sacramento City Attorney Threatens Target it Will Face Fines for Reporting Retail Theft ‘Nuisance Calls’ – California Globe

californiaglobe.com

That's bad governance....that's trying to hide your mistakes and pretend they didn't happen. I see Texas fixing their mistakes that they admitted to as a good thing.

However, Gov Abbot is certainly capable of releasing half-baked data to support his political talking point.

I don't think election integrity is just a talking point. It's pretty clear that most people in this nation aren't good with statistics....regardless of what side of the aisle they're on. It wouldn't be difficult to use this example as a reason to assume hundreds of thousands of illegals are voting in elections....if someone were unscrupulous. That would be wrong of course for many reasons....one being that Texas has more illegals than other states....but Democrats wouldn't be able to prove it because it appears they don't really want to know the real number and most people aren't good enough with statistics to understand why such a claim is disingenuous even as an estimate.

That sort of thing causes people to doubt election results.

 

[stevil]

All these efforts that the Republicans are doing to make it more difficult for people to vote. It's a lot of effort, for something that isn't even a problem. After all the recounts, and checks and court cases in 2020 it was proven that the USA election system is pretty secure and robust and reliable. Sure there are always some fraud going on, but nowhere near the levels needed to change the outcome.

What USA really needs is:
Efforts to increase voter turnout - including voting on weekends, more booths, more polling stations, early voting, mail-in voting, lots of advertising.

The efforts the Republicans are going to reeks of voter suppression.
Plus, we know they are going to have hundred or thousands of poorly trained poll watchers all submitting bogus anomalies which is then going to fuel the circus of Republicans and their lawyers hitting the media, holding up lots of papers claiming to be evidence of fraud.
Lots of frivilous court cases just like in 2020. But maybe this time you will have some Republican election officials refusing to certify the results. Like last time Trump and his enablers will leave no stone unturned in their attempt to sway their base into thinking the Democrats stole the election, all the while trying to steal it themselves.

 

[wing2000]

I don't think election integrity is just a talking point. It's pretty clear that most people in this nation aren't good with statistics....regardless of what side of the aisle they're on. It wouldn't be difficult to use this example as a reason to assume hundreds of thousands of illegals are voting in elections....if someone were unscrupulous. That would be wrong of course for many reasons....one being that Texas has more illegals than other states....but Democrats wouldn't be able to prove it because it appears they don't really want to know the real number and most people aren't good enough with statistics to understand why such a claim is disingenuous even as an estimate.

That sort of thing causes people to doubt election results.

The talking point being illegal immigrants are voting in our elections. There is no evidence of that....and if you think about, why would an illegal immigrant risk deportation to cast a vote?

 

[DaisyDay]

I would imagine the sheer numbers of illegals entering Texas. We also saw Texas sending these illegals to destinations like Chicago and NYC....and for all the complaints about how this was done, it's difficult to argue it wasn't effective.

So why did he allow so many of them to be enfranchised?

 

[Ana the Ist]

The talking point being illegal immigrants are voting in our elections.

Well non-citizens at least. Their legal status is unclear.

There is no evidence of that....

Both this article and yours provided evidence of that.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So why did he allow so many of them to be enfranchised?

I'm not sure what you're asking me...

Why did Governor Abbot not do Joe Biden's job for him? Do you not recall the legal battle they had once he did start doing Biden's job?

 

[Ana the Ist]

All these efforts that the Republicans are doing to make it more difficult for people to vote.

Yeah....they're discriminating against people who can't legally vote lol.

The uncomplicated way to think of would be called "law enforcement". I know you're on the left so maybe it's an unfamiliar concept. Ever heard of law enforcement?

It's a lot of effort, for something that isn't even a problem.

Thousands of people who can't legally vote were registered to vote.

I used to think the same thing....then I found out that much like immigration laws, Democrats are real selective about which election laws they want to enforce.

After all the recounts, and checks and court cases in 2020 it was proven that the USA election system is pretty secure and robust and reliable.

How many of those checks verified citizenship?

Because we're finding out that people who can't legally vote were registered to vote and in many cases....voting.

What USA really needs is:
Efforts to increase voter turnout

Strongly disagree. If people dumb enough to be afraid of Putin interfering with our elections aren't even checking the citizenship of voters....we don't really need their input on much of anything.

The efforts the Republicans are going to reeks of voter suppression.

In what way? You don't seem to understand the concept of requiring voters to be US citizens, it's doubtful you can understand "voter suppression".

But maybe this time you will have some Republican election officials refusing to certify the results.

Can you pretend for a moment to be a real person with their own opinions and explain why we wouldn't want to make sure the people voting for president are US citizens?

Just give me one reason why you're so against it.

Drop the propaganda, quit repeating junk rhetoric, and just explain why you think we shouldn't check to make sure people are actually citizens before they vote for president?

 

[Ana the Ist]

why would an illegal immigrant risk deportation to cast a vote?

Risk deportation?

You make it sound like there's been consequences under Biden. He's not deporting people who get denied asylum. He ordered the agency that deports people to ignore the laws.

Oh noooooo! Deportation! I guess that means they'd have to cross again without any ID, give a new name and birthday, and request asylum lol. What a hassle!

 

[stevil]

Well non-citizens at least. Their legal status is unclear.


Both this article and yours provided evidence of that.

It's a fabricated issue, probably to be used to insight paranoia and fear in Republican voters and to help the Republicans contest the next election.

https://apnews.com/article/voting-immigrants-noncitizen-trump-republicans-2024-1c65429c152c2a10514b5156eacf9ca7

Voting by people who are not U.S. citizens already is illegal in federal elections and there is no indication it’s happening anywhere in significant numbers.

One political party is holding urgent news conferences and congressional hearings over the topic. The other says it’s a dangerous distraction meant to seed doubts before this year’s presidential election.

The Myths and Truths of Noncitizen Voting in the United States

Noncitizens have been barred from voting in federal elections in the United States for at least a century. And since 1996, noncitizen voting in federal elections has been a crime punishable with fines and imprisonment. While a handful of municipalities lawfully permit noncitizens to vote...

immigrationforum.org

On April 12, 2024, former President Donald Trump and House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-Louisiana) announced that House Republicans would soon introduce a bill to ban noncitizens from voting in federal elections.

The truth, however, is that noncitizens have been barred from voting in federal elections since 1924. In addition, in 1996, Congress made noncitizen voting in federal elections a crime punishable by fines and imprisonment.

There is no valid reason for the Republicans to be rushing around "creating" laws to stop non citizens voting, because it is already illegal. What they are doing is purely political theatre. Childish games, to be used to contest and try to steal the next presidential election

The Trump-Johnson proposal to ban noncitizen voting seeks to solve a problem that does not exist.

 

[stevil]

Yeah....they're discriminating against people who can't legally vote lol.

Overly simplistic and naive thinking.

The uncomplicated way to think of would be called "law enforcement". I know you're on the left so maybe it's an unfamiliar concept. Ever heard of law enforcement?

I'm not on the left. I'm not part of the USA sphere, and I would be best considered a pragmatic swing voter. I have no affiliation with either left or right wing ideals.

Because we're finding out that people who can't legally vote were registered to vote and in many cases....voting.

Wow, that would be a real scandle. Did Trump's team investigate this and take this to the courts after the 2020 election? How did that turn out? What about his own AG and DOJ, did they investigate this? What was the determination by the AG in regards to the allegation of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Overly simplistic and naive thinking.

That's a criticism of me. Address the point. If you can do that...I might actually begin to care what you think of me.

I'm not on the left. I'm not part of the USA sphere,

The USA sphere? Why does that sound like you aren't even from the US?

and I would be best considered a pragmatic swing voter.

Ok....use your pragmatic cap and explain why we shouldn't verify that voters are US citizens?

Wow, that would be a real scandle.

It should be....but apparently there's a pile of idiots who have no idea we've been using an honor system for citizenship in some states.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's a fabricated issue,

It's real or it's fabricated. I guess we'd have to consider evidence, right?

Read the article in the OP....Texas found thousands on noncitizens registered to vote in federal elections.

They also found that many of them previously had.

Arizona tried to remove people who haven't proven citizenship from their registry....but the Democrats in the state fought against it in court.

The same thing is playing out in North Carolina.

Voting by people who are not U.S. citizens already is illegal in federal elections and there is no indication it’s happening anywhere in significant numbers.

Well if multiple states don't require evidence of citizenship.....how could we possibly know how many non-citizens are voting?

Did you have a stroke or something?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Overly simplistic and naive thinking.


I'm not on the left. I'm not part of the USA sphere, and I would be best considered a pragmatic swing voter. I have no affiliation with either left or right wing ideals.

Wow, that would be a real scandle. Did Trump's team investigate this and take this to the courts after the 2020 election? How did that turn out? What about his own AG and DOJ, did they investigate this? What was the determination by the AG in regards to the allegation of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election?

It's as if you don't understand the words I'm writing so I'm going to try and dumb this down as much as possible for you....

1. Do they require proof of citizenship before someone can vote in elections wherever you're from?

2. If so...how do you know? If not....why not?

 

[stevil]

It's as if you don't understand the words I'm writing so I'm going to try and dumb this down as much as possible for you....

You are a disgusting person. I have no further interest in talking to you.

 

[wing2000]

Risk deportation?

You make it sound like there's been consequences under Biden. He's not deporting people who get denied asylum. He ordered the agency that deports people to ignore the laws.

Oh noooooo! Deportation! I guess that means they'd have to cross again without any ID, give a new name and birthday, and request asylum lol. What a hassle!

Would you attempt to vote if you were here illegally, have a good job and supporting a family - either here or back in the home country?

 

[DaisyDay]

I'm not sure what you're asking me...

I'll try to put it as simply and clearly - although I know you understand what "enfranchise" means. Is it Joe Biden's job to oversee voter registration in Texas for the last 20 years?

Why did Governor Abbot not do Joe Biden's job for him? Do you not recall the legal battle they had once he did start doing Biden's job?

Are you saying that Abbott has utterly failed to properly oversee voter registration for the length of his governance? Wasn't Texas the state that the Republicans did a study to find out which id were minorities less likely than good ole boys to have and make those the required ones?

 

[Ana the Ist]

You are a disgusting person. I have no further interest in talking to you.

Can't answer....you've been completely dishonest in pretending to want to discuss the issue.

 

[SimplyMe]

Well your article does claim that changes were made to avoid the same mistakes in the future. I certainly prefer that sort of honesty...."Hey we made a mistake when we did this. Here is how we are going to correct it when we do this in the future." That's good governance.

Imagine how much better California would be doing if they had a governor willing to do the same?

Imagine if Gavin Newsome could just come out and say their justice system reforms were a bad idea and they were going to fix them so they worked properly or just outright get rid of the reforms.

They wouldn't need to threaten businesses with fines for simply calling the police to report thefts.

Sacramento City Attorney Threatens Target it Will Face Fines for Reporting Retail Theft ‘Nuisance Calls’ – California Globe

californiaglobe.com

That's bad governance....that's trying to hide your mistakes and pretend they didn't happen. I see Texas fixing their mistakes that they admitted to as a good thing.



I don't think election integrity is just a talking point. It's pretty clear that most people in this nation aren't good with statistics....regardless of what side of the aisle they're on. It wouldn't be difficult to use this example as a reason to assume hundreds of thousands of illegals are voting in elections....if someone were unscrupulous. That would be wrong of course for many reasons....one being that Texas has more illegals than other states....but Democrats wouldn't be able to prove it because it appears they don't really want to know the real number and most people aren't good enough with statistics to understand why such a claim is disingenuous even as an estimate.

That sort of thing causes people to doubt election results.

But Texas has a history of "fixes" and then having the same problem occur, all over again. A great example was the 2021 Winter loss of power, when the power grid "froze," causing people to freeze because most of the population went days without power. Of course, this shouldn't have occurred as Texas had allegedly "fixed" this problem after a similar issue (though not as severe) in 2011. And even since 2021, they are still having power production issues, not being able to provide enough power to homes in Texas when there is high power demand.

There was also an issue with Texas voting machines, for over a decade, that they kept "fixing" but then having it crop up, all over again. Typically, if you tried to vote "straight ticket," there were times it wouldn't vote a straight ticket. They did finally fix that for the 2020 election, at least in most areas, because they finally updated voting machines; to newer machines that print a paper ballot you can verify and then the paper ballot is counted.

I'll also point out that the AG of Texas is not known for his integrity -- he's been under a federal indictment for fraud for the last decade but keeps getting the trial pushed back and should have been impeached last year. He was saved, at the last minute, last year after a lot of politics "was played" to get Senators to refuse to remove him from office. And, since he is the one in charge of elections, he isn't the most reliable of people to have "fixed" those previous issues.

This is one where I'll need to wait for more evidence. Not to mention, even if these were all illegal voters they had zero effect on Democrats winning Presidential elections (and appear not to have hurt Republicans winning office in Texas) -- since all the Texas Electoral College votes have gone to the Republican candidate since 1980. Now, it may be these voters have helped Republicans win those elections, but again, I'll be waiting for more evidence that these were actually "illegals."