Temporal Salvation?

[5thKingdom]

Now there’s 5 kingdoms? Allow me to expose what really happened here...
So you resorted to looking on the internet to find some way to twist this back in your favor and found some random website stating there are five kingdoms and decided to go with that.

That is MY website.
Mine and the other "wise virgins" still alive


Clearly you are WRONG again. You are wrong a lot.
I did not go looking for "some random site"


And you cannot find ONE VERSE in Scripture
to REFUTE a single word said (all you can do is live in denial)


That website information has already been sent to (literally)
hundreds of the most esteemed theologians in some of the
most prestigious seminaries in America and (literally) hundreds
of traditional orthodox or reformed pastors... and NONE OF THEM
could find even ONE VERSE of Scripture that contradicts
anything on the site.


I invite you (no I challenge you) to try to do better.
But realize, when you cannot REFUTE anything that only shows
my spiritual DOMINION over you - as foretold in Daniel 7:26-27


BTW... you can see the NAMES of who the information
was sent to on the "Recipients" page.


Also... the REASON you do not find the words
"Kingdoms" of Heaven" in the Bible is that JESUS was
always specifying one particular "Kingdom of Heaven",
so He said "the Kingdom" instead of "the Kingdoms"
It would be grammatically incorrect to call ONE particular
Kingdom as if it were plural.


The POINT is... Jesus specifically NAMED the
The Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
The Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, in 8 verses]
The Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
The Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 8:11 and other verses]


As I told you before, you should never ASSUME
that Biblical Truth is LIMITED to what YOU understand...
obviously it is not.


BTW... Daniel 12 PROMISES that only the Last Saints (wise virgins)
"shall understand" these Biblical mysteries that remained "sealed"
until this time. So you are not EXPECTED to understand the Truth
but you can never REFUTE the Truth (only deny it).


Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I,
O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said,
Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed
till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made
white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:
and none of the wicked shall understand;
but the wise shall understand.

.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That is MY website.
Mine and the other "wise virgins" still alive

That explains why there aren't ANY other websites that acknowledge your theory about 5 kingdoms. You is all alone.

Clearly you are WRONG again. You are wrong a lot.
I did not go looking for "some random site"

Disagreement with facts doesn't make a poster wrong. It makes YOU wrong.

And, you are right about not "go looking for some random site". You wrote that random site.

And you cannot find ONE VERSE in Scripture
to REFUTE a single word said (all you can do is live in denial)

Talk about denial. There are NO verses that speak of kingdomS in the plural.

What YOU yourself cannot find is even 1 verse that does speak of multiple kingdoms.

All you've done is place a "name" to verses where a "kingdom of heaven" is mentioned, and then you blame Jesus for "naming" the kingdom. That's rich.

That website information has already been sent to (literally)
hundreds of the most esteemed theologians in some of the
most prestigious seminaries in America and (literally) hundreds
of traditional orthodox or reformed pastors... and NONE OF THEM
could find even ONE VERSE of Scripture that contradicts
anything on the site.

I wonder how many of these guys even bothered responding to your "information".

BTW... you can see the NAMES of who the information
was sent to on the "Recipients" page.

Big deal. Do you have the names and responses of those who bothered to respond?

Also... the REASON you do not find the words
"Kingdoms" of Heaven" in the Bible is that JESUS was
always specifying one particular "Kingdom of Heaven",
so He said "the Kingdom" instead of "the Kingdoms"
It would be grammatically incorrect to call ONE particular
Kingdom as if it were plural.

Nice dodge.

The POINT is... Jesus specifically NAMED the
The Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
The Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, in 8 verses]
The Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
The Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 8:11 and other verses]

You can't even discern your own FALSE CLAIM when you say that Jesus "specifically named" various kingdoms.

I've seen your verses. All Jesus ever said was "kingdom (singular) of heaven" and He NEVER EVER placed a "name" to any kingdom.

 

[5thKingdom]

That explains why there aren't ANY other websites that acknowledge your theory about 5 kingdoms. You is all alone.

I guess you still cannot comprehend - or refuse to accept what
the BIBLE PROMISES.


The Bible PROMISES that only the Last Saints "shall understand"
the mysteries of Daniel's prophecies (about the five "Kingdoms")
that remain "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the previous Saints
until the "time-of-the-end"... also called the "Season and Time"
You do not know anything about the "Season and Time" do you?
Again that only PROVES what the Bible PROMISED is the Truth.


Therefore, for you to say that people OTHER than the Last Saints
(called the "wise virgins" in Scripture - Mat 25:1-13) would be able
to "understand" these mysteries - would be a direct contradiction
with what Scripture PROMISES.


You have made your BEST ARGUMENT that the Bible is WRONG.
That strikes me as a very foolish argument, at best.


I will say this another way to help you comprehend your position:


The Bible PROMISED only the Last Saints "shall understand"
[Dan 12:8-10] and Jesus PROMISED that only the Last Saints
"shall see ALL these things" [Mat 24:15 and 24:33] and the
Bible PROMISED only the Last Saints will "prophesy" about these
Biblical mysteries, as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound"
[Rev 10:7-11]


For you to argue that people who are NOT the "wise virgins"
should be able to "understand" contradicts Daniel 12. And for
you to argue that people who are NOT the "wise virgins" could
be able "to see ALL these things" contradicts the Words of Christ
in Matthew 24. And for you to argue that people who are NOT
the "wise virgins" would be preaching these mysteries (again) contradicts the Bible, in Revelation 10.


So... if your BEST ARGUMENT is to contradict the Bible...
then you have an argument - based on the Bible being WRONG.
That is NOT a very solid argument, in my opinion.


As I told you before, the good news is that you are actually PART
of Biblical end-time prophecies. The bad news is you are PART of
those who cannot "understand" and who cannot "see these things",
which the Bible PROMISES all of the Last Saints (the "wise virgins")
"shall understand" and "shall see all these things".


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

That explains why there aren't ANY other websites that acknowledge your theory about 5 kingdoms.

First, you are only pretending when you say this is "my theory"
because we are talking about the CONTEXT of the Words of Christ
and you REFUSE to say WHO the context of the passage represents
... because that Truth would immediately DESTROY your "gospel".
You are fooling nobody but yourself buddy.


Look, it would be VERY EASY for you to prove me incorrect.


(1) Just tell me the CONTEXT (who is Jesus talking about)
when He NAMES the (Jewish) "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 22:2?

If you cannot tell me the CONTEXT of the passage (who is in view)
you are neither qualified or capable of offering an "informed opinion".
You are essentially saying that you just cannot discern the meaning.

-----------------

(2) Tell me the CONTEXT (who is Jesus talking about) when
He NAMES the (Christian) "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 13?

If you cannot tell me the CONTEXT of the passage (who is in view)
you are not qualified or capable of offering and "informed opinion".
You are essentially saying that you just cannot discern the meaning.

-----------------

(3) Tell me the CONTEXT (who is Jesus talking about) when He
NAMES the (Great Tribulation) "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 25:1?

If you cannot tell me the CONTEXT of the passage (who is in view)
you are not qualified or capable of offering an "informed opinion".
You are essentially saying that you just cannot discern the meaning.

-------------------

This is very simple:

If your BEST ARGUMENT is that you cannot discern the CONTEXT
of these passages - then you only expose the reality that you are
neither qualified of capable of offering an "informed opinion"
on passages because you cannot discern the CONTEXT.

It is really as simple as that.
Each of those passages have a specific CONTEXT...
and YOU cannot discern or define WHO is in view in the passage.


Actually, I think you CAN say WHO is the CONTEXT of each passage
but that would instantly destroy your entire "gospel" so you REFUSE to name WHO is the CONTEXT (in order to protect your "gospel").
But you are only fooling yourself by PLAYING ignorant.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

Talk about denial. There are NO verses that speak of kingdomS
in the plural.

Do you even realize how nonsensical that statement is?


Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" before the Flood
Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" of Israel
Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" of Christians
Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" of the "ten virgins"
Jesus identifies an ETERNAL KINGDOM of ONLY the saved.


Jesus does not need to say "there are FIVE KINGDOMS on earth".
Because He NAMED five different Kingdoms and YOU should be able
to count to five. If you cannot count to five what is wrong with you?


The TRUTH is that you are PLAYING ignorant.
Everyone knows you can count to five.


You think using a logical fallacy PROVES something other than
your intentional ignorance. It does not. You are MOCKING GOD
when you DEMAND that He not identify each "Kingdom" separately
before you believe or accept His Word. But God does not WANT
you to believe or accept His "sealed" mysteries [Dan 12:8-10]


Jim

 

[JLB777]

More false statements, again, from you. I pointed out the truth. There was nothing derogatory. Being refuted and proven wrong isn't being derogatory.


OK, if that is true, then my question to you about whether you have stopped beating your wife YET is just as much "not loaded" or "not phony".

So, please answer my question.


Then answer my question.


Your question comes from a very twisted misunderstanding of these verses.


Your question is totally illegitimate (phony and loaded) because of what Scripture teaches and you have rejected.

Your question is based on the idea that a believer can be "separated from Christ" by lifestyle.

Well, that nonsense is refuted by what Paul wrote about believers.

First, he wrote that those who HAVE believED are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Then Paul said in multiple places that sealed believers are GUARANTEED an inheritance for the day of redemption.

Eph 1:14 - who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

See? I quote verses that specifically SAY what I believe and claim. Unlike yourself.

I've highlighted the key concepts in these verses that totally refutes your unbiblical views.

So, since you won't answer my question about whether you have stopped beating your wife yet, here's another one, based solely on the verses I just quoted.

Since Paul mentioned a "guarantee" in 3 verses, can you explain what this guarantee is?

If you continue to refuse to address my questions, much less answering either of them, there is no reason at all to answer any of your questions.

No where does Paul teach against the doctrine of Christ.


Those who are removed from Christ, no longer have eternal life.


All scriptures in this post are from the Apostle John and are of the same context.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Those who are in Christ must remain in Christ, or be cast into the fires of hell and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



Again I ask you a simple question.


Is it your position that a person who is in Christ, has no need of obeying His commandments to remain in Him?


If you continue to avoid this question, I will know that you are promoting a doctrine of lawlessness.





JLB

 

[JLB777]

I never said the unsaved "tares" in the Kingdom are saved..
I said the saved "wheat" in the Kingdom sown by God are
destined to eternal life and the unsaved "tares" in the Kingdom
are destined to the SAME FIRE prepared for Satan [Mat 25:41]

Tares are not part of the kingdom of God.




They are sown by the devil.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That explains why there aren't ANY other websites that acknowledge your theory about 5 kingdoms. You is all alone.

I guess you still cannot comprehend - or refuse to accept what
the BIBLE PROMISES.

Like I said; you is all alone in your fantasies.

The Bible PROMISES that only the Last Saints "shall understand"
the mysteries of Daniel's prophecies (about the five "Kingdoms")

Oh, and I do! It's you that is having serious problems understanding.

You have made your BEST ARGUMENT that the Bible is WRONG.
That strikes me as a very foolish argument, at best.

Oh really, now? That's what I've been arguing? Well, such a claim only proves how little you grasp about things. My argument is totally about what is WRONG with your view, not the Bible's.

So... if your BEST ARGUMENT is to contradict the Bible...

Yeah, go knock yourself out with that bit of nonsense.

then you have an argument - based on the Bible being WRONG.
That is NOT a very solid argument, in my opinion.

Actually, there's NOTHING solid about your arguments. Or views.

 

[FreeGrace2]

First, you are only pretending when you say this is "my theory" because we are talking about the CONTEXT of the Words of Christ and you REFUSE to say WHO the context of the passage represents ... because that Truth would immediately DESTROY your "gospel".
You are fooling nobody but yourself buddy.

Stop pretending.

Look, it would be VERY EASY for you to prove me incorrect.

Yes, it sure WAS easy. All I had to do was point out what YOU were claiming and then reading the verses YOU quoted, and seeing that Jesus gave NO NAME to any kingdom, as you falsely claimed. Bingo.

(1) Just tell me the CONTEXT (who is Jesus talking about)
when He NAMES the (Jewish) "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 22:2?

Context doesn't "name" anything. You are just so confused. And Jesus NEVER gave a name to any kingdom.

Apparently you don't even understand what you claim about what "Jesus named". It means to 'GIVE A NAME' to something. And Jesus NEVER did that.

If you cannot tell me the CONTEXT of the passage (who is in view)
you are neither qualified or capable of offering an "informed opinion".
You are essentially saying that you just cannot discern the meaning.

I never argued against who is in the context. And that doesn't even come close to your false claim about naming the kingdom. It's ALL God's kingdom. Everyone is in it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Talk about denial. There are NO verses that speak of kingdomS
in the plural."

Do you even realize how nonsensical that statement is?

I'll tell you what is nonsensical. You just proved MY claim.

Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" before the Flood
Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" of Israel
Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" of Christians
Jesus identifies a (temporal) "Kingdom" of the "ten virgins"
Jesus identifies an ETERNAL KINGDOM of ONLY the saved.

In each sentence you yourself use the SINGULAR "kingdom". There it is.

Jesus does not need to say "there are FIVE KINGDOMS on earth".

Of course not. Because there aren't 5.

Because He NAMED five different Kingdoms and YOU should be able
to count to five. If you cannot count to five what is wrong with you?

Well, there you go again with your FALSE claim that Jesus "named" kingdoms.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No where does Paul teach against the doctrine of Christ.

And, of course, I never suggested such a stupid idea. My posts are available for all to see and read. So your insinuation is phony.

Those who are removed from Christ, no longer have eternal life.

And, after all this time, you have STILL FALED to prove your case.

otoh, I have proven from Scripture that believers are sealed and guaranteed an inheritance for the day of redemption.

Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Notice the aorist tense regarding believing (in the red words).

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

All of the blue words refer to Eph 1:14 and the believer's guarantee. And the guarantee is for those who HAVE BELIEVED.

Again I ask you a simple question.

Is it your position that a person who is in Christ, has no need of obeying His commandments to remain in Him?

If you continue to avoid this question, I will know that you are promoting a doctrine of lawlessness.
JLB

What's wrong with you? I've addressed your phony loaded question every time you ask it.

And I've proven that your understanding of Scripture is lacking.

Those who HAVE BELIEVED ARE sealed with a guarantee of an inheritance for the day of redemption.

Bingo. Eternal security.

 

[5thKingdom]

Tares are not part of the kingdom of God. They are sown by the devil.

Yes, tares are sown by Satan... but WHERE are they sown?
You say they are NOT SOWN in the "Kingdom of God" and yet
the Lord Jesus Christ contradicts your "opinion" (I say "opinion"
since you offer no SCRIPTURE, just your "feelings" on the subject).
Let's see what the SCRIPTURE says about this issue:


Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The Kingdom of Heaven [that is WHERE the event occurs]
is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among
the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade [wheat]
was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.


So SCRIPTURE says the tares are sown "among the wheat"...
And, the "wheat" are sown in "The Kingdom of Heaven".
Now we understand the CONTEXT of the passage.


In the rest of this event Christ says the "wheat and tares" must
grow together, because they LOOK the same and He did not want
the "wheat" to be removed while the "tares" are gathered OUT of
"The Kingdom of Heaven" (the Christian churches - where the
wheat grow)


Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants
said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them [the tares in
the "Kingdom of Heaven"] up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye
gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest
I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them
in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


So, the Lord Jesus Christ refutes your "feelings" about WHERE
the "tares" are sown. They are sown in the SAME PLACE as the
saved "wheat"... the Christian churches, which Jesus NAMES as
"The Kingdom of Heaven"


When you have a theory about a Biblical event you must TEST
that theory to see if it harmonizes with ALL RELATED Scripture.
In this case, we see it takes less than 2 minutes to REFUTE your
theory because the "wheat and tares" are sown TOGETHER in the
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".


At least you LEARNED something today.
The churches consist of BOTH saved "wheat" sown by God
and destined to eternal life AND unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
and destined to the same fire prepared for Satan and his demons.


Your error is a very common one, because most people ASSUME
the unsaved "tares" are NON-CHRISTIANS. But the Lord Jesus says
(a) they are sown together with the saved wheat and (b) they LOOK
so similar to the wheat that they must be allowed to GROW together.


The way to avoid these kinds of simple errors is to carefully read
to discern the CONTEXT of the passage (who/what/when/where)
instead of just assuming your "feelings" determine Biblical Truth.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

In each sentence you yourself use the SINGULAR "kingdom".

As I already explained to you SEVERAL TIMES, the reason each
verse NAMING a "Kingdom of Heaven" is singular is because
Christ is only talking about ONE (1) "Kingdom" at a time.


Listen... I cannot believe you're so simple minded you
cannot understand that Jesus NAMING four (of the five)
SPECIFIC "Kingdoms of Heaven" means there were NOT
multiple "Kingdoms"


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Especially when each "Kingdom" consisted of DIFFERENT
time periods, DIFFERENT people and DIFFERENT Gospels.


I cannot believe that you (honestly) cannot comprehend that
the Jewish "Kingdom" and people and Gospel was DIFFERENT
than the Christian "Kingdom" and people and Gospel.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Therefore, I must conclude your cognitive dissonance is the result
of (a) you not WANTING the Bible to say what it says because it
would immediately destroy your entire "gospel" or (b) the Bible is
correct when it PROMISED none of the unsaved can understand
the Truth about Daniel's prophecies (of four temporal Kingdoms)
which remained "closed-up" and "sealed" to all previous Saints
and ONLY the Last Saints "shall understand" these mysteries at
the "time-of-the-end".


Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I,
O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said,
Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked
shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


In either case... whether you refuse to understand in order to
protect your current "gospel", or whether you are just not able
to understand - because you are not one of the Last Saints...
I am DONE with you pretending Christ NAMING four specific
and individual Kingdoms/people/gospels does NOT MEAN there
is more than ONE Kingdom/people/gospel.


You believe whatever you want.
I PROMISE you I could not care less what you believe.


In fact, you were never EXPECTED to believe [Dan 12:8-10]
But all of the "wise virgins" are COMMANDED to preach these
"sealed" mysteries at the "time-of-the-end" and that's exactly
what EACH of us are doing right now.


Jim

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
In each sentence you yourself use the SINGULAR "kingdom".

As I already explained to you SEVERAL TIMES, the reason each verse NAMING a "Kingdom of Heaven" is singular is because Christ is only talking about ONE (1) "Kingdom" at a time.

Here's your glaring problem, Jim. NONE of the verses you quoted "name" a kingdom.

That's what YOU have done. The Bible never "names" a kingdom.

Do you even understand what it means to "name a kingdom"? It means to put a NAME on the kingdom. The Bible hasn't done that. Only in your mind.

Listen... I cannot believe you're so simple minded you
cannot understand that Jesus NAMING four (of the five)
SPECIFIC "Kingdoms of Heaven" means there were NOT
multiple "Kingdoms"

Wow. You insult me by describing me as "simple minded", yet YOU YOURSELF seem incapable of grasping that Jesus NEVER "named" any kingdom.

Especially when each "Kingdom" consisted of DIFFERENT
time periods, DIFFERENT people and DIFFERENT Gospels.

Only you have given "names" to each occurrence of "kingdom of heaven".

I cannot believe that you (honestly) cannot comprehend that
the Jewish "Kingdom" and people and Gospel was DIFFERENT
than the Christian "Kingdom" and people and Gospel.

I cannot believe (maybe I can) that you cannot comprehend that I don't understand that different people are in the context of "kingdom of heaven". But that doesn't in any way "name" them by the people being referred to.

Therefore, I must conclude your cognitive dissonance is the result
of (a) you not WANTING the Bible to say what it says because it
would immediately destroy your entire "gospel" or (b) the Bible is
correct when it PROMISED none of the unsaved can understand
the Truth about Daniel's prophecies (of four temporal Kingdoms)
which remained "closed-up" and "sealed" to all previous Saints
and ONLY the Last Saints "shall understand" these mysteries at
the "time-of-the-end".

Yeah, "cognitive dissonance" is a good description of your ideas.

Your ideas are just outlandish. And quite unbiblical.

Jesus NEVER named any kingdom. But you keep claiming that He did. Don't you see the problem here?
Probably not. Cognitive dissonance.

 

[5thKingdom]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Your ideas are just outlandish. And quite unbiblical.
.

You believe whatever you want.
I PROMISE you I could not care less what you believe.


In fact, you were never EXPECTED to believe [Dan 12:8-10]
But all of the "wise virgins" are COMMANDED to preach these
"sealed" mysteries at the "time-of-the-end" and that's exactly
what EACH of us are doing right now.


Jim

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON

Due to the direction of the thread and how the thread has progressed, it is best the Staff feels to close the thread.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[ewq1938]