Since the heart is wicked, how can it turn to Christ?

[Bob8102]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

The human heart and psychology are tricky. This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

 

[HTacianas]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

The human heart and psychology are tricky. This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

It seems like your heart is in the right place else you wouldn't be trying.

But the human heart being deceitful is the reason many people commit evil acts. And then there are others who choose not to. They resist their evil nature and seek to do good. So there is in fact evil and deceit in everyone's heart, but some people choose not to act on it.

 

[Unsavable]

Hi Bob,

Great questions and very much on my mind as well as you may be able to tell by my screen name. This question is what brought me here. For the first time in my life I have revealed where my heart and head are at in the hopes that I will get a clue. It is a hail Mary. One thing I know, is I am not alone.

I am left wondering if my purpose in Gods great narrative is to simply to testify that He is good while I stand on the old earth as it burns away. In that way my brokenness serves Him and ultimately, after a lifetime of pain, does some good.

That is probably totally wrong but I've been kind of depressed over things lately so I have a bleak outlook.

Ultimately, as you articulated better than I could, the question comes down to this...

I pray in my brokenness for healing and forgiveness. If I remain unchanged does that also mean my name is not listed in the book of life? Can I eat scraps off my Masters table, in other words receive gifts and blessings, but ultimately not be destined for resurrection after death?

I honestly do not know the answer to that question.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It would be nice if we could get a certificate of receipt for our salvation, a little something that reassures us that we're saved. This is much like attending a theater where the tickets are being held at the box office: we wait in line and trust that the right of entry will be there when we get there.

Our salvation depends not on us but on Christ. We ask how we know we are saved, and the answer is that we know we are saved because Christ has the power to save all who put their trust in him. Yes, but how do I know I am saved? Because Christ has the power to save. Yes, but....we want to know our specific standing with Christ. The answer, though rationally unsatisfying, is that I know I am saved, because Christ saves. I know that I am saved, because I know that Christ saves. I would not know that if I were not saved. It's not about "the prayer," or mouthing words with the proper degree of certitude or sincerity. It's not about me or anything I do, at all. It's Christ who saves.

Keep your eyes on Jesus, and stop trusting in yourself.

 

[Tree of Life]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

The human heart and psychology are tricky. This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

Good question.

No one understands. No one seeks for God. Our hearts can only turn to the Lord if the Lord first seeks us out and regenerates us. God gives us new hearts that are interested in Him and able to turn to Him. He always makes this first move.

The fact that you care about whether or not you're saved is an indication that you have this new heart. You should be assured of the Father's love for you.

 

[BBAS 64]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

The human heart and psychology are tricky. This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

Good day, Bob

Remember Jesus in Jn 6 says no man can unless God does something, he said it twice.

So what does God do and what are the effects of what God does:


Eze 36 I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rule.

He takes out the stone heart, and gives us a new heart and puts his Spirit in us and causes us to walk and obey. That is His work and his purposes for what He does, we live out the effects according to his good pleasure.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Unsavable]

Good day, Bob

Remember Jesus in Jn 6 says no man can unless God does something, he said it twice.

So what does God do and what are the effects of what God does:


Eze 36 I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rule.

He takes out the stone heart, and gives us a new heart and puts his Spirit in us and causes us to walk and obey. That is His work and his purposes for what He does, we live out the effects according to his good pleasure.

In Him,

Bill

This is good news and bad news. Bad news for those of us who want to be right with God but find no escape from their fallen nature. If that is Gods plan then let His will be done. I do not object. I just wish things could be different.

 

[BBAS 64]

This is good news and bad news. Bad news for those of us who want to be right with God but find no escape from their fallen nature. If that is Gods plan then let His will be done. I do not object. I just wish things could be different.

Good Day,

Your escape is Christ.. if I set them free they will be free indeed.

The effects of the new heart is the desire to escape I will give them the desires of their heart.

The man whose heart is wicked loves the darkness and hates the light. It is only God that can cause a man to hate that which he had formally loved (darkess), and love that which he had formally hated (light).

How can it be any better Salvation is of the Lord!

Different how?

In Him,

Bill

 

[Unsavable]

Good Day,

Your escape is Christ.. if I set them free they will be free indeed.

The effects of the new heart is the desire to escape I will give them the desires of their heart.

The man whose heart is wicked loves the darkness and hates the light. It is only God that can cause a man to hate that which he had formally loved (darkess), and love that which he had formally hated (light).

How can it be any better Salvation is of the Lord!

Different how?

In Him,

Bill

I wish I was different, not God.

On the one hand I often feel like Salieri, I see how wrong the world is and am amazed that those of the world can't see it. On the other hand I see how wrong I am and for some reason, probably my fault, am unable to be free from it. I know it is wrong but can't change. Prayer has brought me many blessings in life but never a solution for my greatest problem. I remain unchanged.

Sorry, I don't mean to make everything about me but that's the contradiction that I face. I know others share in the same struggles. Plus it aligns with the OP's question.

 

[BBAS 64]

I wish I was different, not God.

On the one hand I often feel like Salieri, I see how wrong the world is and am amazed that those of the world can't see it. On the other hand I see how wrong I am and for some reason, probably my fault, am unable to be free from it. I know it is wrong but can't change. Prayer has brought me many blessings in life but never a solution for my greatest problem. I remain unchanged.

Sorry, I don't mean to make everything about me but that's the contradiction that I face. I know others share in the same struggles. Plus it aligns with the OP's question.

All I can say is... Not my words:

God allows us to struggle with sin our whole lives to convince us until our dying breath of our desperate need of the gospel." -John Newton

 

[Unsavable]

All I can say is... Not my words:

God allows us to struggle with sin our whole lives to convince us until our dying breath of our desperate need of the gospel." -John Newton

This is a good answer. It doesn't make me feel any better about myself but I accept the truth of these words.

So the fact that I am able to see what is wrong, as opposed to people of the world that see wrong things as being right is the defining difference? That's how Bob and I can know we are saved? Even though we, or at least I, have a wicked heart?

Actually I would use the word "broken" rather than wicked. Perhaps it is a minor difference of semantics. I think a wicked heart prefers evil where a broken heart doesn't want to be broken, but is.

 

[Phil W]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

The human heart and psychology are tricky. This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

The way to eliminate the prior heart, and in fact the whole prior man is to crucify it with Christ at our baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and be raised with Him to walk in newess of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Be done with the old man and become a new, reborn man.

 

[royal priest]

1 I sought the Lord, and afterward I knew
he moved my soul to seek him, seeking me;
it was not I that found, O Savior true;
no, I was found, was found of thee.
It was not I that found, O Savior true;
no, I was found, was found of thee.

2 Thou didst reach forth thy hand and mine enfold;
I walked and sank not on the storm-vexed sea;
'twas not so much that I on thee took hold,
as thou, dear Lord, on me, on me.
'Twas not so much that I on thee took hold,
as thou, dear Lord, on me, on me.

3 I find, I walk, I love; but O the whole
of love is but my answer, Lord, to thee!
For thou wert long beforehand with my soul;
always, always thou lovedst me.
For thou wert long beforehand with my soul;
always, always thou lovedst me.
--Anonymous

 

[Mountainmanbob]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

The human heart and psychology are tricky. This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

The Holy Spirit removes the blinders from our eyes.

Remember Saul -- Paul?
What did he do?

M-Bob

 

[packermann]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

I can sympathize with you. I think the verse you are mentioning is Jeremiah 17:9.

[The human heart and psychology are tricky.

I have an undergrad degree in Family Services, which is a counseling. One thing I got out of that was we often deceive ourselves. And the job of the counselor is to give the patient insight into what the patient does not want to admit. But the problem is that the counselor himself could deceive himself, so he is not always equipt to help the patient have insight on himself.

This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

There is no absolute certainty of our salvation. Absolute certainty presumes we are never wrong. But only God is never wrong. This is why we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. If we are wrong then we will suffer being wrong for all eternity.

Protestants and Catholics in modern day have this quick and easy salvation. But if you go back a couple of hundred years, this was not the case. I would encourage all Protestants to read Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan. This is a Protestant classic where the main character is fighting the good fight in order to get to heaven. Nothing quick and easy here. Or read Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoffer, another classic which says that grace is not cheap. It is costly, had cost the blood of Christ. It should also cost us with our lives. It cost the author his own life, literally. He was executed during Nazi Germany. These books are so much different than the modern Christian books.

And any Catholic book written by an author who lived before Vatican II would also write that we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. But now we have articles written by Archbishop Robert Barron saying that we have a reasonable hope that all will go to heaven.

I think that Protestantism and Catholicism today have been influenced by modernism. Today, we want things to be quick and easy. So we conform to the world and adapt a quick and easy salvation. I would encourage all to read the Bible, not someone's interpretation of the Bible, but the Bible itself. According to the Bible, salvation is not quick and easy.

 

[Bob8102]

Packerman, you say "quick and easy." Easy believism says salvation is quick and easy. But Jesus said few find the road to life and that the entrance-way is narrow and the road difficult. So it is not easy. But quick - Yes! The Bible fully supports salvation-in-a-moment. Jesus told the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven." He told the woman who poured a flask of fragrant oil on His feet, "Your faith has saved you." He told the repentant thief on the cross, "Assuredly, I say, today you will be with Me in paradise." As to the thief on the cross, my David Jeremiah Study Bible says (I am paraphrasing), 'This man had no time to join a church, be baptized, or do good works. He only had time to believe in Jesus. And he was saved!"

The David Jeremiah Bible says (paraphrasing again), 'The moment one puts their faith in Jesus Christ and submits to His lordship as savior, is the moment one becomes a Christian." Because I know salvation can occur in a moment, I have long taken numerous shots at easy believism entrances into the kingdom of God. Again, I have tended to mix up "quick" with "quick and easy." But long ago, I prayed to God that He would not let me believe I'm going to heaven if I'm not. Along those lines, I repeatedly reject all my supposed "salvations." I'm just not doing something right.

So I have problems with me being fake vs. me being real. Am I shallow soil or deep soil?

One can be saved in a moment. But that is one incredible moment. I have long sought that moment. Only to be turned back, over and over. I say "turned back," but I suppose it's more like me "drawing back into perdition."

I am continuing to seek to give my life to Christ for real. But I tend to look at myself, looking at Christ. That means I'm really looking at self, not Christ. Whenever i seek to look at Christ, I think I usually really see myself. And to see self is to see a lover of self and sin, not a lover of Christ.

I'm continuing to ask Christ to help me find Him. And am continuing to ask for prayer.

 

[packermann]

Packerman, you say "quick and easy." Easy believism says salvation is quick and easy. But Jesus said few find the road to life and that the entrance-way is narrow and the road difficult.

I think that you must misunderstood me. I meant to say that Christianity today is influenced by modernism. But the Christianity preached by the apostles was not quick and easy.

So it is not easy. But quick - Yes! The Bible fully supports salvation-in-a-moment. Jesus told the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven." He told the woman who poured a flask of fragrant oil on His feet, "Your faith has saved you." He told the repentant thief on the cross, "Assuredly, I say, today you will be with Me in paradise." As to the thief on the cross, my David Jeremiah Study Bible says (I am paraphrasing), 'This man had no time to join a church, be baptized, or do good works. He only had time to believe in Jesus. And he was saved!"

Sure, as soon as you turn to Christ, and if you die immediately afterwards, then you will go to heaven, as was the good thief on the cross. Here are some verses that show that the journey to heaven is a struggle until we die:

"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to."
Luke 13:24

Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
Philippians 2:12-13

For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
1 Timothy 4:7

But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard
Colossians 1:23

We have to strive throughout our lives to enter the narrow gate, we must continue in the faith that we first heard. We are saved when we first turned to Christ, but we must continue. You accept Christ as Savior and Lord? Great! But you must continue to have Him as your Savior and Lord until your dying day. Only then will receive the crown of righteousness. But now we must work out our salvation that we received when we first turned to Christ, with fear and trembling because our eternity is at stake. Yes, it is impossible for us to do this with our wicked hearts. But God is at work in us - but to will and to do according to His pleasing. Sure we will still sin on our journey. But if confess our sins, which includes repentance, He will forgive our sins.

The David Jeremiah Bible says (paraphrasing again), 'The moment one puts their faith in Jesus Christ and submits to His lordship as savior, is the moment one becomes a Christian."

I think I know my Bible pretty well. This is not in the Bible. So either this is a loose paraphrase of a verse or is a commentary embedded in that Bible (and a comment on a verse is not infallible).

But long ago, I prayed to God that He would not let me believe I'm going to heaven if I'm not.

If this is the way God operates, then there would be no need of teachers of the Bible. God will not let you believe something wrong as long as you pray for it. Not only that, but there would be no need of the Bible! We could just pray that God will not let us fall into heresy if we just pray. Nothing else would be needed.

But it does not work that. The heart is deceitful. We can convince ourselves that God has give us some inner light. The devil can masquerade as an angel of light. Do not turn your inner light.

That is why God has given the Bible and qualified teachers to help us understand it. Do not rely on God mystically not letting you believe that you are going to heaven if you are not. Many will be deceived into thinking that they are going to heaven.

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Galatians 6:7-8

Do not be deceived, brother. God has already revealed in this verse how you can know you will to heaven! If you are living to please your flesh then you will reap destruction. If you live to please the Holy Spirit you will reap eternal life. You do not have pray for some inner guidance. God has already spoken!

 

[packermann]

So I have problems with me being fake vs. me being real. Am I shallow soil or deep soil?

I think you are deep soil. You are being honest, and you are revealing the paradox of the Christian life. You have this treasure in your earthen vessel. The treasure is Christ. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body.(2 Corinthians 4:7-11)

In this world we will experience trials, and the greatest trial is doubt. Christ experienced this on the cross. He cried out "My God, my God! Why have you you forsaken Me?"(Matthew 27:46). Jesus experienced the greatest pains that we ever experienced. On the cross He experienced doubt. He experienced atheism, which is being with God. He felt forsaken by the Father and the Holy Spirit. They never left Him. They were always there. And yet He felt that they abandoned Him. But He never gave into the feelings of being abandoned by God. He fought against those feelings. At the end, He prayed "Father, into Your hands I commend My Spirit". He went from calling Him God to Father. He went from thinking that the Father had abandoned Him to entrusting His death into His Father's hands.

He calls each one of us to follow His to the cross. We are going to experience doubts. But paradoxically we will have faith. True faith will still have doubts. A father said to Jesus, "I believe, help Thou my unbelief"(Mark 9:24). And that was enough for Jesus to heal his child.

Jesus is not looking for us to have perfect faith. It will be filled with doubt. Our faith can be as small as a mustard seed (Luke 17:6). So I would suggest not to be obsessed about how much faith you have. Concentrate, instead, on love. Although faith can be as small as a mustard seed, the Bible never says that we should be content with our love being as small as a mustard seed. Of the virtues of faith, hope, and love the greatest is love. Love covers a multitude of sins (1 Corinthians 13:13). Love Jesus with your whole heart, mind, and soul and love others as Christ has loved you. Everything else will flow from that.

 

[Bob8102]

I think that you must misunderstood me. I meant to say that Christianity today is influenced by modernism. But the Christianity preached by the apostles was not quick and easy.



Sure, as soon as you turn to Christ, and if you die immediately afterwards, then you will go to heaven, as was the good thief on the cross. Here are some verses that show that the journey to heaven is a struggle until we die:

"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to."
Luke 13:24

Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
Philippians 2:12-13

For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
1 Timothy 4:7

But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard
Colossians 1:23

We have to strive throughout our lives to enter the narrow gate, we must continue in the faith that we first heard. We are saved when we first turned to Christ, but we must continue. You accept Christ as Savior and Lord? Great! But you must continue to have Him as your Savior and Lord until your dying day. Only then will receive the crown of righteousness. But now we must work out our salvation that we received when we first turned to Christ, with fear and trembling because our eternity is at stake. Yes, it is impossible for us to do this with our wicked hearts. But God is at work in us - but to will and to do according to His pleasing. Sure we will still sin on our journey. But if confess our sins, which includes repentance, He will forgive our sins.



I think I know my Bible pretty well. This is not in the Bible. So either this is a loose paraphrase of a verse or is a commentary embedded in that Bible (and a comment on a verse is not infallible).



If this is the way God operates, then there would be no need of teachers of the Bible. God will not let you believe something wrong as long as you pray for it. Not only that, but there would be no need of the Bible! We could just pray that God will not let us fall into heresy if we just pray. Nothing else would be needed.

But it does not work that. The heart is deceitful. We can convince ourselves that God has give us some inner light. The devil can masquerade as an angel of light. Do not turn your inner light.

That is why God has given the Bible and qualified teachers to help us understand it. Do not rely on God mystically not letting you believe that you are going to heaven if you are not. Many will be deceived into thinking that they are going to heaven.

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Galatians 6:7-8

Do not be deceived, brother. God has already revealed in this verse how you can know you will to heaven! If you are living to please your flesh then you will reap destruction. If you live to please the Holy Spirit you will reap eternal life. You do not have pray for some inner guidance. God has already spoken!

You wrote:
But now we must work out our salvation that we received when we first turned to Christ, with fear and trembling because our eternity is at stake.

I'm not quite sure what the name for the theology that I go by is. Maybe "protestant, reformed, evangelical?" But it teaches that a true Christian cannot lose their salvation. The Jeremian Study Bible I keep mentioning has a section called something like, "Is working out your salvation the same as earning it?" It says that the language in the Bible means something similar to miners working out gold or other precious materials from mines. God put the material in there; the miners work it out. It says that a saved person has precious "gems" in him/her, which they are to work to bring to the surface. That is, work to live as Christ calls them to. But it indicates that working out one's salvation is not the same as working to earn salvation. And that one cannot lose their salvation. If your theology says a Christian can lose their salvation, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

As to the moment that one becomes a Christian, as talked about in my study Bible, that also is in line with my theology. (No, it's not a verse in the Bible, it's in study notes.) Also, that section of the Bible says that what brings one to accept Christ may be a process, but becoming a Christian is not a process. It says everyone who becomes a Christian does so in a moment, like Saul on the Damascus road. (No, it does not mean that everyone has an experience as dramatic as Saul's. But their moment of conversion is just as instantaneous.)

A Christian friend of mine has been telling me to learn more of Christ from the Bible, and seems to indicate that becoming a believer is a process. What I don't like about a "process" is that one may not make it all the way through the process. A momentary conversion that is permanent not only is more to my liking, but is in line with the "standard" protestant theology I have.

I have known the gospel for something like 45+ years. I have been actively seeking salvation for ten years. I have read the whole Bible 1+ times and the New Testament several times. I have been exposed to lots of preaching and teaching. I think I have enough info upon which basis to make a decision, whereas this friend of mine is telling me to learn more. But my problem is in whether or not my repeated "conversions to Christ" are real, any of them. My theology which says a Christian cannot lose their salvation also says things like, if good works are not evident in one's life, then they have good reason to question their salvation. It says, faith without works is dead. I never wait for very long before questioning my salvation. The doubt comes up quickly. But I don't assume it's just OCD. It may be that I really have not yet become a Christian.

 

[Bob8102]

You wrote:
But now we must work out our salvation that we received when we first turned to Christ, with fear and trembling because our eternity is at stake.

I'm not quite sure what the name for the theology that I go by is. Maybe "protestant, reformed, evangelical?" But it teaches that a true Christian cannot lose their salvation. The Jeremian Study Bible I keep mentioning has a section called something like, "Is working out your salvation the same as earning it?" It says that the language in the Bible means something similar to miners working out gold or other precious materials from mines. God put the material in there; the miners work it out. It says that a saved person has precious "gems" in him/her, which they are to work to bring to the surface. That is, work to live as Christ calls them to. But it indicates that working out one's salvation is not the same as working to earn salvation. And that one cannot lose their salvation. If your theology says a Christian can lose their salvation, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

As to the moment that one becomes a Christian, as talked about in my study Bible, that also is in line with my theology. (No, it's not a verse in the Bible, it's in study notes.) Also, that section of the Bible says that what brings one to accept Christ may be a process, but becoming a Christian is not a process. It says everyone who becomes a Christian does so in a moment, like Saul on the Damascus road. (No, it does not mean that everyone has an experience as dramatic as Saul's. But their moment of conversion is just as instantaneous.)

A Christian friend of mine has been telling me to learn more of Christ from the Bible, and seems to indicate that becoming a believer is a process. What I don't like about a "process" is that one may not make it all the way through the process. A momentary conversion that is permanent not only is more to my liking, but is in line with the "standard" protestant theology I have.

I have known the gospel for something like 45+ years. I have been actively seeking salvation for ten years. I have read the whole Bible 1+ times and the New Testament several times. I have been exposed to lots of preaching and teaching. I think I have enough info upon which basis to make a decision, whereas this friend of mine is telling me to learn more. But my problem is in whether or not my repeated "conversions to Christ" are real, any of them. My theology which says a Christian cannot lose their salvation also says things like, if good works are not evident in one's life, then they have good reason to question their salvation. It says, faith without works is dead. I never wait for very long before questioning my salvation. The doubt comes up quickly. But I don't assume it's just OCD. It may be that I really have not yet become a Christian.

I think you are deep soil. You are being honest, and you are revealing the paradox of the Christian life. You have this treasure in your earthen vessel. The treasure is Christ. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body.(2 Corinthians 4:7-11)

In this world we will experience trials, and the greatest trial is doubt. Christ experienced this on the cross. He cried out "My God, my God! Why have you you forsaken Me?"(Matthew 27:46). Jesus experienced the greatest pains that we ever experienced. On the cross He experienced doubt. He experienced atheism, which is being with God. He felt forsaken by the Father and the Holy Spirit. They never left Him. They were always there. And yet He felt that they abandoned Him. But He never gave into the feelings of being abandoned by God. He fought against those feelings. At the end, He prayed "Father, into Your hands I commend My Spirit". He went from calling Him God to Father. He went from thinking that the Father had abandoned Him to entrusting His death into His Father's hands.

He calls each one of us to follow His to the cross. We are going to experience doubts. But paradoxically we will have faith. True faith will still have doubts. A father said to Jesus, "I believe, help Thou my unbelief"(Mark 9:24). And that was enough for Jesus to heal his child.

Jesus is not looking for us to have perfect faith. It will be filled with doubt. Our faith can be as small as a mustard seed (Luke 17:6). So I would suggest not to be obsessed about how much faith you have. Concentrate, instead, on love. Although faith can be as small as a mustard seed, the Bible never says that we should be content with our love being as small as a mustard seed. Of the virtues of faith, hope, and love the greatest is love. Love covers a multitude of sins (1 Corinthians 13:13). Love Jesus with your whole heart, mind, and soul and love others as Christ has loved you. Everything else will flow from that.

I just now discovered this post of yours, after reading and replying to the one below. I appreciate this post, as well. The Christian friend I mention also stresses love. She sent me a piece about that. I do understand that love is supremely important. But one cannot love (in a godly way) until they have been born again. I have been concentrating on being born again, seemingly without successs.