Since the heart is wicked, how can it turn to Christ?

[Phil W]

My theology which says a Christian cannot lose their salvation also says things like, if good works are not evident in one's life, then they have good reason to question their salvation. It says, faith without works is dead. I never wait for very long before questioning my salvation. The doubt comes up quickly. But I don't assume it's just OCD. It may be that I really have not yet become a Christian.

Your fruit will determine which seed you are of.
Grape vines cannot bear figs.
God's seed cannot bear the fruit of the devil.

 

[packermann]

You wrote:
But now we must work out our salvation that we received when we first turned to Christ, with fear and trembling because our eternity is at stake.

I'm not quite sure what the name for the theology that I go by is. Maybe "protestant, reformed, evangelical?" But it teaches that a true Christian cannot lose their salvation. The Jeremian Study Bible I keep mentioning has a section called something like, "Is working out your salvation the same as earning it?" It says that the language in the Bible means something similar to miners working out gold or other precious materials from mines. God put the material in there; the miners work it out. It says that a saved person has precious "gems" in him/her, which they are to work to bring to the surface. That is, work to live as Christ calls them to. But it indicates that working out one's salvation is not the same as working to earn salvation. And that one cannot lose their salvation. If your theology says a Christian can lose their salvation, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

Bob, I mean this as no offence, but unless you know NT Greek then I suggest you stick with what the English text says. For instance, the Jehovah Witnesses argue that their "experts" say that that John 1:1 in the original Greek has John 1:1 has "the Word was a god". After just a few classes of NT Greek, I saw exactly how they were completely wrong.

I am sure that you would be against the Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility. Because of this, I have not used any of a pope's teachings to support my argument. But you seem to support expert infallibility. Experts are often wrong. And since I do not accept the the viewpoint of "protestant, reformed, evangelical?" experts, why should I believe what this expert says just because he says so?

One other thing that I also learned from my NT Greek classes: our translations are amazingly accurate. And they are not translated by just one "expert" from one denomination or theology, but from many. So if this Jeremian Bible "expert" says it means something entirely different than what the English text says, then why did not any of the translators translate that way? Philippians 2:12 says "work out your SALVATION with fear and trembling". No translation has "bring your salvation to the surface with fear and trembling". If that is what it actually says then why was it never translated that way?

As to the moment that one becomes a Christian, as talked about in my study Bible, that also is in line with my theology. (No, it's not a verse in the Bible, it's in study notes.)

Study notes? The study notes are not part of the infallible Word of God. I do not believe that study notes should be in the Bible. It gives Christians the wrong impression that it is part of the Word of God. It is not. It is only one person's opinion on what the text says.

A Christian friend of mine has been telling me to learn more of Christ from the Bible, and seems to indicate that becoming a believer is a process. What I don't like about a "process" is that one may not make it all the way through the process. A momentary conversion that is permanent not only is more to my liking, but is in line with the "standard" protestant theology I have.

Italics mine.

So you determine what is true by what is to your liking?

I notice that you did not say what is true.

I have known the gospel for something like 45+ years. I have been actively seeking salvation for ten years. I have read the whole Bible 1+ times and the New Testament several times. I have been exposed to lots of preaching and teaching. I think I have enough info upon which basis to make a decision, whereas this friend of mine is telling me to learn more. But my problem is in whether or not my repeated "conversions to Christ" are real, any of them. My theology which says a Christian cannot lose their salvation also says things like, if good works are not evident in one's life, then they have good reason to question their salvation. It says, faith without works is dead. I never wait for very long before questioning my salvation. The doubt comes up quickly. But I don't assume it's just OCD. It may be that I really have not yet become a Christian.

Have not yet become a Christian? Now you sound like it is a process!

This is a serious problem with your position.

How do you know that your accepting Christ is genuine? Maybe it was just an intellectual assent or a feeling? Your works are the fruit that God elected you to become a Christian. But although you see some fruit in your life, you also see fruit lacking. So you question whether you really accepted Christ. So what do you do? Do you accept Christ again? If so, then you are seeking to become born again, again! This in itself goes against Protestant theology. You are supposed to accept Christ only once! You are condemned if you do and condemned if you don't. If you keep on accepting Christ, you are rejecting your version of the gospel that it only happens once. But if you do not accept Christ again, then it is possible that your past conversion was a fake conversion, and your relationship with God now is an illusion. So how can you ever be certain of your salvation?

According to my position, I am certain that if I die now I will go to heaven. I may fall out of grace tomorrow but now I under grace. I do not worry of living in an illusion now. I have present assurance. I take salvation one day at a time.

Also, I converted to Christ 45+ years ago, too. For the first 15 years, I was a Protestant evangelical. I have been Catholic for 20+ years. As a Protestant, I graduated from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and was a Protestant pastor for three years. Bob, you say you were exposed to lots of preaching and teaching. But I think you were exposed to the same preaching and teaching from only one viewpoint - the Protestant, Reformed, Evangelical viewpoint. What about the Arminian viewpoint? What about Methodist? What about Assemblies of God? What about Orthodox? What about Catholic?

 

[packermann]

I just now discovered this post of yours, after reading and replying to the one below. I appreciate this post, as well. The Christian friend I mention also stresses love. She sent me a piece about that. I do understand that love is supremely important. But one cannot love (in a godly way) until they have been born again. I have been concentrating on being born again, seemingly without successs.

For the sake of argument, I will accept your interpretation of Philippians 2:12, just to show that you do not concentrate on your past experience being born again over loving God and others in the present.

You wrote on this verse:

The Jeremian Study Bible I keep mentioning has a section called something like, "Is working out your salvation the same as earning it?" It says that the language in the Bible means something similar to miners working out gold or other precious materials from mines. God put the material in there; the miners work it out. It says that a saved person has precious "gems" in him/her, which they are to work to bring to the surface. That is, work to live as Christ calls them to.

So let's go with that right now: We are like miners working out what God has worked in us. It is our responsibility to bring it to the surface.

Loving God and loving others for His sake is bringing our salvation to the surface. It is the fruit of our salvation. Sure, God works within us, both to will and to do according to His pleasure. We must never forget that! Apart from Christ we can do nothing.

BUT this is not automatic! What He has worked in us we must work out! Augustine once said that when we pray we pray as if it all depends on God and when we work we work as if it all depends on us. WE have to bring our salvation to the surface! We cannot have the attitude of let go and let God.

Bob, as you wrote, you have been a Christian for 45+ years. If you are still not even sure you are a Christian, then something is wrong! I think you are concentrating on the wrong thing! I don't think you will find certainty by concentrating on whether or not you are a Christian. This leads to introspection, and introspection leads to concentration on self, and concentration on self leads away from loving God and others. And the less you love God and others, the more you question whether you are a Christian.

Jesus said that he who loses His life for His sake will gain it. So I would encourage you to stop focusing on yourself and your own salvation and focus on God and others. Lose yourself in love for God and others. Pray as a person who is madly in love with God would pray. Be faithful at going to church. Pray more for the salvation of others instead of worrying about your own. Volunteer at some charity. Share your faith. Be the best husband and father you can be. Strive to be humble. Pray for humility. And most of all, forgive those who have ever hurt you. Pray for them especially for their salvation. Maybe you are doing this. Do more of it. And the feelings of assurance will come to you.

Mother Theresa of Calcutta felt that God abandoned her. She felt that for 40 years! What did she do? Did she concentrate on making sure that her conversion was real? No, instead, she concentrated on love. She lost herself in God and others. When she was visited on her deathbed, she was giddy with joy. Her feeling of abandonment was a trial. She passed with flying colors.

We Catholics call this the "Dark Night of the Soul". Even Christ felt this on the Cross. He cried out "My God, my God! Why have You forsaken Me?" The Father never abandoned Jesus, but Jesus felt as if He was abandoned by the Father. If we are going to follow Jesus we will experience this. It does not mean that we are not Christians. Unless we have committed some serious sin, it does not mean that our conversion was not genuine. It does not mean that God does not love us. It means we are becoming more like Christ, for this is what He experienced.

 

[Bob8102]

Bob, I mean this as no offence, but unless you know NT Greek then I suggest you stick with what the English text says. For instance, the Jehovah Witnesses argue that their "experts" say that that John 1:1 in the original Greek has John 1:1 has "the Word was a god". After just a few classes of NT Greek, I saw exactly how they were completely wrong.

I am sure that you would be against the Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility. Because of this, I have not used any of a pope's teachings to support my argument. But you seem to support expert infallibility. Experts are often wrong. And since I do not accept the the viewpoint of "protestant, reformed, evangelical?" experts, why should I believe what this expert says just because he says so?

One other thing that I also learned from my NT Greek classes: our translations are amazingly accurate. And they are not translated by just one "expert" from one denomination or theology, but from many. So if this Jeremian Bible "expert" says it means something entirely different than what the English text says, then why did not any of the translators translate that way? Philippians 2:12 says "work out your SALVATION with fear and trembling". No translation has "bring your salvation to the surface with fear and trembling". If that is what it actually says then why was it never translated that way?



Study notes? The study notes are not part of the infallible Word of God. I do not believe that study notes should be in the Bible. It gives Christians the wrong impression that it is part of the Word of God. It is not. It is only one person's opinion on what the text says.


Italics mine.

So you determine what is true by what is to your liking?

I notice that you did not say what is true.




Have not yet become a Christian? Now you sound like it is a process!

This is a serious problem with your position.

How do you know that your accepting Christ is genuine? Maybe it was just an intellectual assent or a feeling? Your works are the fruit that God elected you to become a Christian. But although you see some fruit in your life, you also see fruit lacking. So you question whether you really accepted Christ. So what do you do? Do you accept Christ again? If so, then you are seeking to become born again, again! This in itself goes against Protestant theology. You are supposed to accept Christ only once! You are condemned if you do and condemned if you don't. If you keep on accepting Christ, you are rejecting your version of the gospel that it only happens once. But if you do not accept Christ again, then it is possible that your past conversion was a fake conversion, and your relationship with God now is an illusion. So how can you ever be certain of your salvation?

According to my position, I am certain that if I die now I will go to heaven. I may fall out of grace tomorrow but now I under grace. I do not worry of living in an illusion now. I have present assurance. I take salvation one day at a time.

Also, I converted to Christ 45+ years ago, too. For the first 15 years, I was a Protestant evangelical. I have been Catholic for 20+ years. As a Protestant, I graduated from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and was a Protestant pastor for three years. Bob, you say you were exposed to lots of preaching and teaching. But I think you were exposed to the same preaching and teaching from only one viewpoint - the Protestant, Reformed, Evangelical viewpoint. What about the Arminian viewpoint? What about Methodist? What about Assemblies of God? What about Orthodox? What about Catholic?

You have been a Christian for 45+ years. I have been one for 17+ hours (since 8 AM yesterday). You have a lot more experience at it than I.

You mention that Bible commentators do not write the word of God and are fallible. That is true. But they know a lot more than I do. Having a study Bible is like having an expert, such as yourself, available to help with Bible study. Because they are "experts," does not make them inerrant. But they can add valuable insight to the study. As to the passage on "working out your salvation," both Dr. Jeremiah and you know ancient Greek. I cannot be a referee for the debate between you two because I do not know ancient Greek.

As to my personal assurance of salvation: right now, I am sure I gave my life to Christ by 8 AM yesterday. But I have OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Grantley Morris, in his webpages for Christians with OCD who keep doubting their salvation, describes a repeated cycle of faith and doubt which is precisely what I experience. He says such a person may get an assurance of salvation, and be flooded with peace and joy. But within a few days, the anxiety caused by their OCD will cause that assurance to completely vanish. Morris says Satanic forces exploit weaknesses, such as anxiety disorders, in a person. On advice from Aussie Pete, who has commented on some of my posts, I have obtained a copy of the book "War on the Saints" and begun reading it. This is about spiritual warfare.

You wrote:

"But I think you were exposed to the same preaching and teaching from only one viewpoint - the Protestant, Reformed, Evangelical viewpoint. What about the Arminian viewpoint? What about Methodist? What about Assemblies of God? What about Orthodox? What about Catholic?"

As I understand it, a lot of Protestant denominations preach essentially the same Gospel. Denominational differences are on secondary issues. I used to go to mainly Presbyterian churches, but for several years now, I have been spottily attending an Assemblies of God church. It is the same Gospel, but there is no speaking in tongues in the Presbyterian churches I have attended.

I know there are saved Catholics, such as, quite apparently, yourself, and Packermann, who has been responding to this post. (There are even saved Protestants! []) In the men's Bible study I go to (nondenominational, but held at a Presbyterian Church), there is a Catholic. I have no doubt he's saved, from listening to him. He and I went to the same Catholic high school. He has his kids in Catholic school.

 

[Bob8102]

For the sake of argument, I will accept your interpretation of Philippians 2:12, just to show that you do not concentrate on your past experience being born again over loving God and others in the present.

You wrote on this verse:



So let's go with that right now: We are like miners working out what God has worked in us. It is our responsibility to bring it to the surface.

Loving God and loving others for His sake is bringing our salvation to the surface. It is the fruit of our salvation. Sure, God works within us, both to will and to do according to His pleasure. We must never forget that! Apart from Christ we can do nothing.

BUT this is not automatic! What He has worked in us we must work out! Augustine once said that when we pray we pray as if it all depends on God and when we work we work as if it all depends on us. WE have to bring our salvation to the surface! We cannot have the attitude of let go and let God.

Bob, as you wrote, you have been a Christian for 45+ years. If you are still not even sure you are a Christian, then something is wrong! I think you are concentrating on the wrong thing! I don't think you will find certainty by concentrating on whether or not you are a Christian. This leads to introspection, and introspection leads to concentration on self, and concentration on self leads away from loving God and others. And the less you love God and others, the more you question whether you are a Christian.

Jesus said that he who loses His life for His sake will gain it. So I would encourage you to stop focusing on yourself and your own salvation and focus on God and others. Lose yourself in love for God and others. Pray as a person who is madly in love with God would pray. Be faithful at going to church. Pray more for the salvation of others instead of worrying about your own. Volunteer at some charity. Share your faith. Be the best husband and father you can be. Strive to be humble. Pray for humility. And most of all, forgive those who have ever hurt you. Pray for them especially for their salvation. Maybe you are doing this. Do more of it. And the feelings of assurance will come to you.

Mother Theresa of Calcutta felt that God abandoned her. She felt that for 40 years! What did she do? Did she concentrate on making sure that her conversion was real? No, instead, she concentrated on love. She lost herself in God and others. When she was visited on her deathbed, she was giddy with joy. Her feeling of abandonment was a trial. She passed with flying colors.

We Catholics call this the "Dark Night of the Soul". Even Christ felt this on the Cross. He cried out "My God, my God! Why have You forsaken Me?" The Father never abandoned Jesus, but Jesus felt as if He was abandoned by the Father. If we are going to follow Jesus we will experience this. It does not mean that we are not Christians. Unless we have committed some serious sin, it does not mean that our conversion was not genuine. It does not mean that God does not love us. It means we are becoming more like Christ, for this is what He experienced.

Most of your response, which is very right on, looks like it came straight from a Presbyterian friend of mine. She has long been telling me I'm too focused on myself and not on Jesus and others.

You wrote:

"Bob, as you wrote, you have been a Christian for 45+ years. If you are still not even sure you are a Christian, then something is wrong!"

Something is definitely wrong. A lot of this wrong has to do with my OCD.

For most of those 45 years, I understood I was definitely NOT a Christian. With this understanding, I decided to concentrate on enjoying life, with worldly pleasures and goals. For the last ten years, however, I decided to seek salvation. I was initially enticed into seeking salvation by a counselor who expressed an "easy believism" viewpoint. So, I was initially seeking easy believism entrances into the kingdom of heaven. This failed. Realizing there is no easy entrance, I began to struggle with whether or not I was willing to do what it really takes to enter the kingdom.

I had to have some misconceptions cleared up. This has happened only recently, including one that cleared up only days ago. For most of those ten years, I concentrated on my lost condition and on trying to get saved, full time. Things reached a crescendo in 2019. Last year, I had numerous "conversions," which were always followed by severe/fatal doubt. My OCD pattern is exactly as described by Grantley Morris on his webpages about OCD. Yesterday morning, after some hours, I finally became convinced I am a Christian by 8 AM.

You and others say to concentrate on loving others to get assurance of salvation. The Bible says some kinds of things along those lines, saying things like we know we have eternal life if we love the brethren. But Protestants, at least, say that we cannot earn salvation by good works. In fact, the Bible says all of our "righteousnesses" are as filthy rags (and the reference is to menstruation). They say that good works are a result of, and a proof of, salvation, but not the cause of it. Good works are not the road to salvation, but are the result of salvation. To me, that begs the question: What is the road to salvation?

I believe my road led to salvation, finally, by 8 AM yesterday.

 

[packermann]

You have been a Christian for 45+ years. I have been one for 17+ hours (since 8 AM yesterday). You have a lot more experience at it than I.

You mention that Bible commentators do not write the word of God and are fallible. That is true. But they know a lot more than I do. Having a study Bible is like having an expert, such as yourself, available to help with Bible study. Because they are "experts," does not make them inerrant. But they can add valuable insight to the study. As to the passage on "working out your salvation," both Dr. Jeremiah and you know ancient Greek. I cannot be a referee for the debate between you two because I do not know ancient Greek.

That is why I object to anyone who appeals to the Greek when it is not in any of our translations. I have had three years of Greek. But I know that I am a novice compared to the translators of the Bibles we have. One of my teachers was Dr. Murray J Harris, who was on the committee of translators for the NIV New Testament. I could not compete with him in his knowledge of Greek. I am not trying to say that I know Greek better that Dr. Jeremiah. But I am saying that the Bible translators, such as Dr. Murray J Harris know a lot more than Dry. Jeremiah. You do not need to be a Greek expert to know that! It is just common sense. If Dr. Jeremiah knew as much as Dr. Murray J Harris, then Jeremiah would have been invited to be one of the Bible translators.But he was not. So when Jeremiah goes against what the translations say, I am sticking to the translations.

As to my personal assurance of salvation: right now, I am sure I gave my life to Christ by 8 AM yesterday. But I have OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Grantley Morris, in his webpages for Christians with OCD who keep doubting their salvation, describes a repeated cycle of faith and doubt which is precisely what I experience. He says such a person may get an assurance of salvation, and be flooded with peace and joy. But within a few days, the anxiety caused by their OCD will cause that assurance to completely vanish. Morris says Satanic forces exploit weaknesses, such as anxiety disorders, in a person. On advice from Aussie Pete, who has commented on some of my posts, I have obtained a copy of the book "War on the Saints" and begun reading it. This is about spiritual warfare.

I was once Reformed when I was Protestant. I found that the Reformed theology can be psychological harmful, especially to an OCD person. Eternal security becomes eternal insecurity. It is a vicious cycle.

1. One accepts Christ - his theology tells him he is eternally secure IF he genuinely accepted Christ. If he did really accept Christ, God will produce the fruit that proves he his saved.

2. But the person cannot be sure of the fruit in the future. Since it is a possibility that future fruit may be not happen, then his past acceptance of Christ would be all an illusion.

3. He starts to doubt his past acceptance of Christ. So he accepts Christ again. It is like being "born again" again!

Bob, if you remain a Protestant, it would be good to at least be something like a Wesleyan Methodist. John Wesley preached what he called "present assurance". Present assurance is that as long as he currently trusts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord, he is then saved. There is no introspection of what happened years ago. As long as he follows Jesus Christ now he knows that he is saved now.


You wrote:

"But I think you were exposed to the same preaching and teaching from only one viewpoint - the Protestant, Reformed, Evangelical viewpoint. What about the Arminian viewpoint? What about Methodist? What about Assemblies of God? What about Orthodox? What about Catholic?"

As I understand it, a lot of Protestant denominations preach essentially the same Gospel. Denominational differences are on secondary issues. I used to go to mainly Presbyterian churches, but for several years now, I have been spottily attending an Assemblies of God church. It is the same Gospel, but there is no speaking in tongues in the Presbyterian churches I have attended.

I was also in the Assemblies of God (I was quite a church hopper). In terms of salvation, they believe something similar to John Wesley's "present assurance". They believe that you can lose your salvation. If you presently no longer believe in Jesus as Savior and Lord then you are not saved. If you then start living for Christ again, then you are saved again.

What attracted me to the Assemblies of God was their worship. I was tired of three hymns and then a long sermon. But then the Pentecostal worship started bothering me. It seemed to be more about getting on a emotional/spiritual high than glorifying God.

I know there are saved Catholics, such as, quite apparently, yourself, and Packermann, who has been responding to this post. (There are even saved Protestants! []) In the men's Bible study I go to (nondenominational, but held at a Presbyterian Church), there is a Catholic. I have no doubt he's saved, from listening to him. He and I went to the same Catholic high school. He has his kids in Catholic school.

 

[Joey Arnold]

The heart is dead. So, you pray for a new one.

 

[Bob8102]

That is why I object to anyone who appeals to the Greek when it is not in any of our translations. I have had three years of Greek. But I know that I am a novice compared to the translators of the Bibles we have. One of my teachers was Dr. Murray J Harris, who was on the committee of translators for the NIV New Testament. I could not compete with him in his knowledge of Greek. I am not trying to say that I know Greek better that Dr. Jeremiah. But I am saying that the Bible translators, such as Dr. Murray J Harris know a lot more than Dry. Jeremiah. You do not need to be a Greek expert to know that! It is just common sense. If Dr. Jeremiah knew as much as Dr. Murray J Harris, then Jeremiah would have been invited to be one of the Bible translators.But he was not. So when Jeremiah goes against what the translations say, I am sticking to the translations.

You say what you say; Dr. Jeremiah says what he says. Here's what he says:

"Is working out our salvation the same as earning it?

"We must be careful when we interpret the words working out our salvation. The term does not mean we can earn our salvation. We have no part in the true reconciling work of forgiveness - only the blood of Jesus Christ can do that. But we are called to work out what God has worked in. This is called the divine cooperative.

"In the Greek, to work out describes those who worked in the mines. They mined out of the ground what the Creator had placed there and then brought those riches into the light. The work of God delivers the gift of salvation to us. We then take that gift and, by the power of the Holy Spirit, diligently work to perfect ourselves as followers of Christ (1 Cor. 12:6; 15:10; 2 Cor. 3:5; Eph. 2:8,10; 3:20; 1 Tim. 4:7; Titus 3:5, 8; 2:14; Heb. 13:20, 21; 1 Pet. 1:3-7, 10).

"Unless gifts are put to use, they are wasted. If someone gives us a shirt for Christmas, we wear it. If we receive a book, we read it. As recipients of God's salvation, we must put to use the gifts we have received if we are to become His light-bearers to the world. Thank God we have been given the indwelling of the Spirit to enable this work, as apart from that gift, such a 'working out' would be impossible."



I was once Reformed when I was Protestant. I found that the Reformed theology can be psychological harmful, especially to an OCD person. Eternal security becomes eternal insecurity. It is a vicious cycle.

1. One accepts Christ - his theology tells him he is eternally secure IF he genuinely accepted Christ. If he did really accept Christ, God will produce the fruit that proves he his saved.

2. But the person cannot be sure of the fruit in the future. Since it is a possibility that future fruit may be not happen, then his past acceptance of Christ would be all an illusion.

3. He starts to doubt his past acceptance of Christ. So he accepts Christ again. It is like being "born again" again!

Bob, if you remain a Protestant, it would be good to at least be something like a Wesleyan Methodist. John Wesley preached what he called "present assurance". Present assurance is that as long as he currently trusts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord, he is then saved. There is no introspection of what happened years ago. As long as he follows Jesus Christ now he knows that he is saved now.

Almost all Protestant Christians that I know not only believe in eternal security, they do NOT keep questioning their salvation, as I do. The vicious cycle you mention applies certainly to me and to some other OCD people, and maybe other people.

I have a book called Stop Asking Jesus Into Your Heart: How To Know You Are Saved, by JD Greear. He also says to concentrate on where your faith is resting in the present, not on a past prayer you prayed. He said that by the time he was eighteen, he had asked Jesus into his heart 5,000 times. He says he got permanent assurance one night in college, after reading Luther's commentary on Romans 10:9-10. He indicates that it is possible for doubts to come up for him now, but when they do, he does not look back to past experiences of his, not even to the night reading Luther's commentary. He says he looks back 2,000 years to what Christ accomplished on Calvary.

After being sure I was saved this past Monday, I came to severely doubt my salvation again today. That is why I logged on. I, again, certainly experience the vicious cycle you refer to. Then I saw your response and decided to respond to it before posting my thing about my current doubt.


You wrote:

"But I think you were exposed to the same preaching and teaching from only one viewpoint - the Protestant, Reformed, Evangelical viewpoint. What about the Arminian viewpoint? What about Methodist? What about Assemblies of God? What about Orthodox? What about Catholic?"



I was also in the Assemblies of God (I was quite a church hopper). In terms of salvation, they believe something similar to John Wesley's "present assurance". They believe that you can lose your salvation. If you presently no longer believe in Jesus as Savior and Lord then you are not saved. If you then start living for Christ again, then you are saved again.

What attracted me to the Assemblies of God was their worship. I was tired of three hymns and then a long sermon. But then the Pentecostal worship started bothering me. It seemed to be more about getting on a emotional/spiritual high than glorifying God.

In my exposure to Assemblies of God, I have never heard you can lose your salvation. Protestants who believe in eternal security say that there can be backsliding by real Christians, and there are people who believe they are saved but are not. If one spends long enough, no longer believing the gospel, then possibly one was never saved to begin with. I have an (ex?) friend whom I met at a Bible study shortly after he had given his life to Christ. This was in the period where I had no doubts that I was NOT a Christian, for decades. This was my best friend, for decades. More recently, he has come to deny the faith. But I can vouch for him, that when I knew him in the early years of our friendship, he was, no doubt, a Christian. My evaluation is that he is still a Christian, even though he has denied the faith. I believe, from what he said after he no longer believed, that all he needs is some intellectual re-convincing that the Truth is true, and he will come back to the fold.

Once one is born a human being, they are a human being forever. It's their very nature. Once one has been born again a child of God, one is a child of God forever. It's their very nature.

Assemblies of God churches apparently focus, to some extent, on emotional experiences. As an ex-Presbyterian, i do not tend to get caught up in this.

 

[Bob8102]

In my exposure to Assemblies of God, I have never heard you can lose your salvation. Protestants who believe in eternal security say that there can be backsliding by real Christians, and there are people who believe they are saved but are not. If one spends long enough, no longer believing the gospel, then possibly one was never saved to begin with. I have an (ex?) friend whom I met at a Bible study shortly after he had given his life to Christ. This was in the period where I had no doubts that I was NOT a Christian, for decades. This was my best friend, for decades. More recently, he has come to deny the faith. But I can vouch for him, that when I knew him in the early years of our friendship, he was, no doubt, a Christian. My evaluation is that he is still a Christian, even though he has denied the faith. I believe, from what he said after he no longer believed, that all he needs is some intellectual re-convincing that the Truth is true, and he will come back to the fold.

Once one is born a human being, they are a human being forever. It's their very nature. Once one has been born again a child of God, one is a child of God forever. It's their very nature.

Assemblies of God churches apparently focus, to some extent, on emotional experiences. As an ex-Presbyterian, i do not tend to get caught up in this.

Most of my post, above, can only be accessed by clicking on "expand" in the quote of original text at the top of the post previous to this one. Something went wrong and my responses are now part of that text that needs to be expanded. My response includes a quote from the Jeremiah Study Bible.

 

[Phil W]

Once one is born a human being, they are a human being forever. It's their very nature. Once one has been born again a child of God, one is a child of God forever. It's their very nature.

To be clear here, I hope you see that the start of a life as a child of God means the life of the child of the human has ended.
Our death with Christ at our "immersion" into His death, (Rom 6:3-6), is the end of "human" connotations on life.
Thanks be to God we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life"; walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

 

[renniks]

The Bible says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked above all else, who can know it? One of my questions is, if we are sinners, dead in trespasses, how can we do something good and selfless, like turn to Christ?

The human heart and psychology are tricky. This makes salvation tricky. One can think they have repented and belong to Jesus, when they don't. Jesus said He will say to many who thought they were His, "I never knew you..." One can say a sinner's prayer, and not be saved. One can say a sinner's prayer with all the sincerity they can muster, and, I guess, still not be saved.

My problem is the above facts, combined with OCD, which is described as "pathological doubt." Just today, i have numerous times tried to communicate with Jesus as follows: "You are able to save to the uttermost, those who come to God through You," and, "Jesus, help me to come to God through You." But then I wonder, am I saying one thing in my head with words, while my heart is still clinging to self?

Jesus looks on our heart, not on our words. But the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else!

Is the redeemed heart still deceitfully wicked? We are a new creation! If one says a sinner prayer and is not saved, they didn't truly mean what they said. God isn't trying to make it difficult to get into the kingdom, he isn't willing that any perish.

 

[packermann]

In my exposure to Assemblies of God, I have never heard you can lose your salvation. Protestants who believe in eternal security say that there can be backsliding by real Christians, and there are people who believe they are saved but are not. If one spends long enough, no longer believing the gospel, then possibly one was never saved to begin with.

I believed that a Christian could lose his or her salvation ever since I had entered seminary. It was then that I joined the Assemblies after investigating their official teachings. I would never have joined if they had believed in eternal security.


This is a quote from their official web site.

God, as a loving Heavenly Father, does not desire that any person fall away from the salvation He has graciously provided in Christ. “Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9).

But, the Bible also teaches that believers who have accepted Christ as Savior can be lost if they repeatedly disregard the teachings of Scripture, continue to resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and finally reach the point where they have turned away from their Savior. Jesus makes that point in the Parable of the Sower where, speaking of some who have become believers, He said, “They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away” (Luke 8:13). The writer of Hebrews wrote soberly of believers “who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away” (Hebrews 6:4–6).

The apostle Peter warned, “If they [new believers] have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them” (2 Peter 2:20–21).

The Bible surely warns against the possibility of forfeiting, or abandoning, salvation, but it never ceases to offer hope for anyone who will respond to the appeal of the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ invitation is without qualification. “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28). The apostle Paul, with great assurance, declared, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Romans 10:13). So Christians should never prematurely conclude that a struggling brother or sister is irredeemable. If the father did not give up on the lost son (Luke 15:11–31), neither should the Church of Jesus Christ.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assurance of Salvation (Official A/G Position Paper)

 

[Bob8102]

I believed that a Christian could lose his or her salvation ever since I had entered seminary. It was then that I joined the Assemblies after investigating their official teachings. I would never have joined if they had believed in eternal security.


This is a quote from their official web site.

God, as a loving Heavenly Father, does not desire that any person fall away from the salvation He has graciously provided in Christ. “Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9).

But, the Bible also teaches that believers who have accepted Christ as Savior can be lost if they repeatedly disregard the teachings of Scripture, continue to resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and finally reach the point where they have turned away from their Savior. Jesus makes that point in the Parable of the Sower where, speaking of some who have become believers, He said, “They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away” (Luke 8:13). The writer of Hebrews wrote soberly of believers “who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away” (Hebrews 6:4–6).

The apostle Peter warned, “If they [new believers] have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them” (2 Peter 2:20–21).

The Bible surely warns against the possibility of forfeiting, or abandoning, salvation, but it never ceases to offer hope for anyone who will respond to the appeal of the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ invitation is without qualification. “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28). The apostle Paul, with great assurance, declared, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Romans 10:13). So Christians should never prematurely conclude that a struggling brother or sister is irredeemable. If the father did not give up on the lost son (Luke 15:11–31), neither should the Church of Jesus Christ.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assurance of Salvation (Official A/G Position Paper)

You say that you would not have joined the Assemblies of God if they had believed in eternal security. While I have never specifically asked this question of my pastor at the Assemblies of God church I have attended, if he were to tell me he did NOT believe in eternal security, that would be a reason for me to stop going there permanently. That the Assemblies of God has eternal insecurity in their doctrine is a revelation to me. I disagree with this doctrine affirmatively.

All of the passages you quote are looked at by Protestant, Reformed, Evangelicals from the viewpoint of the eternal security doctrine. These passages, they say, are about people who were never really saved. This includes the warnings in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10.

This argument will never end. That is one reason I have not logged back on for some days. I am having a personal crisis as to whether or not I am a Christian, which I'll plan to be posting about in a new thread. Therefore I logged back on and decided to respond.

 

[packermann]

That the Assemblies of God has eternal insecurity in their doctrine is a revelation to me. I disagree with this doctrine affirmatively.

I disagree with your term "eternal insecurity". I prefer the term "present assurance" by the Protestant preacher John Wesley. As long as I am living for Christ now I am presently assured.

"Eternal security" is not any security at all. It only gives security hypothetically. Hypothetically, a real Christian is eternally secure. But no one knows that he or she is a real Christian until one is on the deathbed. If at the end one did not persevere then that person was not really a Christian to begin with. That person was living an illusion. And this is the problem that you seem to be experiencing. No matter how many times you have accepted Christ you are not sure that you really accepted Christ. So you accept Christ again, and again, and again. You say that this time you REALLY accepted Christ. But I think you will continue to accept Christ over and over again. This doctrine is especially harmful to one who has OCD. You will always live in the past, agonizing over whether you REALLY accepted Christ the last time, or was it just an illusion.

All of the passages you quote are looked at by Protestant, Reformed, Evangelicals from the viewpoint of the eternal security doctrine. These passages, they say, are about people who were never really saved. This includes the warnings in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10.

The problem is how we see the Bible. We look at the Bible with certain presuppositions. You are fitting the passages into your eternal security presupposition. No matter how strong the passage is going against your presupposition, you can still fit it into your presupposition.

Here is an illustration of what I mean. A man told a doctor that he believes that he is dead. "Doc, I cannot help but believe that I am a dead man.". The doctor asked him, "OK, do dead men bleed?" The man said "No, of course not! Every one knows that dead men do not bleed!". So the doctor then pricked his finger with a needle, and the finger bled". "Well, how about that!", said the patient "dead men DO bleed!"

This patient fits everything into his presupposition that he is a dead man. So since he bleeds, he fits this into his presupposition and comes to the conclusion that dead men do bleed.

Bob, I think you are doing this. You are fitting even difficult Bible passages into eternal security presupposition. The book of Hebrews have some VERY challenging verses against eternal security. But you do not see them because you are fitting them into your eternal security presupposition.
But you have to go deeper. How do you know that eternal security presupposition is true? It is not enough to come up with your own verses. That would be a circular argument. And people on the other side of the argument do the same thing.

This argument will never end.

This is why I have come to the conclusion that sola scriptura does not work. Arguments based on the Bible alone never end. There must be something else. We Catholics say it is tradition.

Actually, you yourself are doing that. You look at scripture based on a Protestant, Reform, Evangelical tradition. But the problem is this: How do you know that this Protestant, Reform, Evangelical tradition is right? You cannot say that this tradition is right because it is is supported in the Bible. This tradition helps you to interpret the Bible. It is a circular argument to use the Bible to determine what tradition is right.

I would say that the way to determine which tradition is right is by seeing which is the oldest tradition. The Protestant, Reform, Evangelical tradition is at most only 500 years old. But the Catholic tradition goes all the way to the Early Church. I would encourage you to read the Early Church Fathers along with the Bible. I am not saying that the Early Church Fathers were inspired as the biblical writers were. But many of them were personally discipled by the apostles, so they would know far better what the biblical writers meant than what someone 1,500 years later said they meant. And one thing I can say with confidence - none of the Early Church Fathers taught eternal security. In fact, they all taught that one could be a real Christian and yet can turn away from Christ.

That is one reason I have not logged back on for some days. I am having a personal crisis as to whether or not I am a Christian, which I'll plan to be posting about in a new thread. Therefore I logged back on and decided to respond.

It is what I thought would happen. "Eternal security" will never give you security. In your last post, you said that this time you really accepted Christ. Now you have doubts again. That is the dilemma of the eternal security doctrine.
Instead of worrying on whether you really accepted Christ the last time, just live for Christ now. Just live in the present, not in the past.

 

[Bob8102]

I disagree with your term "eternal insecurity". I prefer the term "present assurance" by the Protestant preacher John Wesley. As long as I am living for Christ now I am presently assured.

"Eternal security" is not any security at all. It only gives security hypothetically. Hypothetically, a real Christian is eternally secure. But no one knows that he or she is a real Christian until one is on the deathbed. If at the end one did not persevere then that person was not really a Christian to begin with. That person was living an illusion. And this is the problem that you seem to be experiencing. No matter how many times you have accepted Christ you are not sure that you really accepted Christ. So you accept Christ again, and again, and again. You say that this time you REALLY accepted Christ. But I think you will continue to accept Christ over and over again. This doctrine is especially harmful to one who has OCD. You will always live in the past, agonizing over whether you REALLY accepted Christ the last time, or was it just an illusion.


The problem is how we see the Bible. We look at the Bible with certain presuppositions. You are fitting the passages into your eternal security presupposition. No matter how strong the passage is going against your presupposition, you can still fit it into your presupposition.

Here is an illustration of what I mean. A man told a doctor that he believes that he is dead. "Doc, I cannot help but believe that I am a dead man.". The doctor asked him, "OK, do dead men bleed?" The man said "No, of course not! Every one knows that dead men do not bleed!". So the doctor then pricked his finger with a needle, and the finger bled". "Well, how about that!", said the patient "dead men DO bleed!"

This patient fits everything into his presupposition that he is a dead man. So since he bleeds, he fits this into his presupposition and comes to the conclusion that dead men do bleed.

Bob, I think you are doing this. You are fitting even difficult Bible passages into eternal security presupposition. The book of Hebrews have some VERY challenging verses against eternal security. But you do not see them because you are fitting them into your eternal security presupposition.
But you have to go deeper. How do you know that eternal security presupposition is true? It is not enough to come up with your own verses. That would be a circular argument. And people on the other side of the argument do the same thing.


This is why I have come to the conclusion that sola scriptura does not work. Arguments based on the Bible alone never end. There must be something else. We Catholics say it is tradition.

Actually, you yourself are doing that. You look at scripture based on a Protestant, Reform, Evangelical tradition. But the problem is this: How do you know that this Protestant, Reform, Evangelical tradition is right? You cannot say that this tradition is right because it is is supported in the Bible. This tradition helps you to interpret the Bible. It is a circular argument to use the Bible to determine what tradition is right.

I would say that the way to determine which tradition is right is by seeing which is the oldest tradition. The Protestant, Reform, Evangelical tradition is at most only 500 years old. But the Catholic tradition goes all the way to the Early Church. I would encourage you to read the Early Church Fathers along with the Bible. I am not saying that the Early Church Fathers were inspired as the biblical writers were. But many of them were personally discipled by the apostles, so they would know far better what the biblical writers meant than what someone 1,500 years later said they meant. And one thing I can say with confidence - none of the Early Church Fathers taught eternal security. In fact, they all taught that one could be a real Christian and yet can turn away from Christ.


It is what I thought would happen. "Eternal security" will never give you security. In your last post, you said that this time you really accepted Christ. Now you have doubts again. That is the dilemma of the eternal security doctrine.
Instead of worrying on whether you really accepted Christ the last time, just live for Christ now. Just live in the present, not in the past.

I and others with OCD have that problem of doubting. But those without this disorder or other anxiety disorders do not have the problem of being unsure of their salvation. I am now again sure of my salvation. Knowing I've been there before and always changed my mind, I am trying to learn to take the advice given in a website for Christians with OCD who keep doubting their salvation. It says OCD attacks whatever is most emotionally important to the sufferer, and with Christians, what is most emotionally important is their salvation. It says OCD is a like a faulty alarm system that keeps sounding false alarms. It says that OCD sufferers need, NOT something that can stop the false alarms (unless medication is actually able to do this), NOT repeated assurances, but to learn to live with the disorder and to recognize its false alarms as such.

You say I and others are going by a presupposition. The same could be said for you, especially as to your reference to church tradition. I am going by, among other things, Jesus' statement that "they shall never perish" and "no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." Included in my paradigm is the idea that a child of his father is permanently a child of his father, no matter what he does.

 

[Phil W]

I and others with OCD have that problem of doubting. But those without this disorder or other anxiety disorders do not have the problem of being unsure of their salvation. I am now again sure of my salvation. Knowing I've been there before and always changed my mind, I am trying to learn to take the advice given in a website for Christians with OCD who keep doubting their salvation. It says OCD attacks whatever is most emotionally important to the sufferer, and with Christians, what is most emotionally important is their salvation. It says OCD is a like a faulty alarm system that keeps sounding false alarms. It says that OCD sufferers need, NOT something that can stop the false alarms (unless medication is actually able to do this), NOT repeated assurances, but to learn to live with the disorder and to recognize its false alarms as such.

Most enlightening, thanx.

Included in my paradigm is the idea that a child of his father is permanently a child of his father, no matter what he does.

As it is a sure thing that God's children only do things the Father would approve of, you are correct. (1 John 3:9)
But if one is committing sin, something detested by God, they are not the children of God.
Manifest from whom you were reborn and you will do fine.

 

[packermann]

I and others with OCD have that problem of doubting. But those without this disorder or other anxiety disorders do not have the problem of being unsure of their salvation. I am now again sure of my salvation. Knowing I've been there before and always changed my mind, I am trying to learn to take the advice given in a website for Christians with OCD who keep doubting their salvation. It says OCD attacks whatever is most emotionally important to the sufferer, and with Christians, what is most emotionally important is their salvation. It says OCD is a like a faulty alarm system that keeps sounding false alarms. It says that OCD sufferers need, NOT something that can stop the false alarms (unless medication is actually able to do this), NOT repeated assurances, but to learn to live with the disorder and to recognize its false alarms as such.

My prayers are with you.

You say I and others are going by a presupposition. The same could be said for you, especially as to your reference to church tradition.

I thought I did include myself. Everyone bases their interpretations on their presuppositions - including we Catholics. And we all base our presuppositions on our traditions. The difference is that we Catholics have our tradition going all the way back to the apostles. Your tradition goes back only 500 years.

I am going by, among other things, Jesus' statement that "they shall never perish" and "no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

My 2,000 year-old Catholic viewpoint sees that the first verse means that they will not perish only if they continue in the faith (Colossians 1:23). And no one snatch them out of His hand does not mean that they themselves cannot voluntarily choose to leave.

For the first 1,500 years of Christianity no one, not even the heretics, thought that a Christian could never fall from grace. That is why Christians were willing to be fed to the lions in the first three years of Christianity for their faith - better to be lion food than to burn for all eternity.

1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins". Forgiveness of a grave sin is conditioned upon us confessing the sin. IF we confess THEN we He forgives!

Bob, according to the Protestant, Reformed, Evangelical tradition, you should accept Christ ONLY ONCE. To accept Christ multiple time means that you were never saved to begin with! You admit you have accepted Christ multiple times. So according your viewpoint you were never saved. How does that give you security?

But whenever I feel guilty of a sin I just confess, repent, and move on. I do not worry if I had confessed that sin already. I can confess it multiply times, and in my viewpoint the Lord is pleased whenever I confess it. Now that is freedom! I never introspect on whether I really accepted Christ. I do not introspect on whether I am a Christian. But you can and will never be sure. You say you are Reformed. The Reformed position is that God predestined some to be saved and some to go to hell before they do anything. So if that is true, then no matter how hard you want it and how hard you pray for it, you will never be a child of God if God decided before the foundation of the world that you are not one of the Elect.

Included in my paradigm is the idea that a child of his father is permanently a child of his father, no matter what he does.

But you are Reformed, you cannot be sure that God is YOUR Father! Your cannot know that this until the very end!

Anyway, according to Jewish thought at the time of Jesus, parents were to submit their rebellious children to be killed (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). So when Jesus said that God was their Father, they would not have assumed that they can do whatever they want and God would forgive them without the need for repentance. In Luke 15:32, the Prodigal Son was dead to the father and then after his repentance he is alive.

 

[Bob8102]

My prayers are with you.



I thought I did include myself. Everyone bases their interpretations on their presuppositions - including we Catholics. And we all base our presuppositions on our traditions. The difference is that we Catholics have our tradition going all the way back to the apostles. Your tradition goes back only 500 years.



My 2,000 year-old Catholic viewpoint sees that the first verse means that they will not perish only if they continue in the faith (Colossians 1:23). And no one snatch them out of His hand does not mean that they themselves cannot voluntarily choose to leave.

For the first 1,500 years of Christianity no one, not even the heretics, thought that a Christian could never fall from grace. That is why Christians were willing to be fed to the lions in the first three years of Christianity for their faith - better to be lion food than to burn for all eternity.

1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins". Forgiveness of a grave sin is conditioned upon us confessing the sin. IF we confess THEN we He forgives!

Bob, according to the Protestant, Reformed, Evangelical tradition, you should accept Christ ONLY ONCE. To accept Christ multiple time means that you were never saved to begin with! You admit you have accepted Christ multiple times. So according your viewpoint you were never saved. How does that give you security?

But whenever I feel guilty of a sin I just confess, repent, and move on. I do not worry if I had confessed that sin already. I can confess it multiply times, and in my viewpoint the Lord is pleased whenever I confess it. Now that is freedom! I never introspect on whether I really accepted Christ. I do not introspect on whether I am a Christian. But you can and will never be sure. You say you are Reformed. The Reformed position is that God predestined some to be saved and some to go to hell before they do anything. So if that is true, then no matter how hard you want it and how hard you pray for it, you will never be a child of God if God decided before the foundation of the world that you are not one of the Elect.



But you are Reformed, you cannot be sure that God is YOUR Father! Your cannot know that this until the very end!

Anyway, according to Jewish thought at the time of Jesus, parents were to submit their rebellious children to be killed (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). So when Jesus said that God was their Father, they would not have assumed that they can do whatever they want and God would forgive them without the need for repentance. In Luke 15:32, the Prodigal Son was dead to the father and then after his repentance he is alive.

You wrote:

"To accept Christ multiple time means that you were never saved to begin with! You admit you have accepted Christ multiple times. So according your viewpoint you were never saved. How does that give you security?"

To accept Christ multiple times means one was never sure of their salvation. I accepted Christ shortly before logging on, just now. Because of my OCD, I will likely continue to battle doubts. But one verse I am keeping in mind is: "Being confidant of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ."

If one could lose their salvation, that means Jesus Christ died for some of their sins, not all of them. He died for their sins committed up until the point that, after initial salvation, they walk away from Him. That Jesus died for some of a person's sins and not others goes against the sweep of biblical theology.

 

[Bob8102]

PS - and my prayers are also with you.

 

[packermann]

To accept Christ multiple times means one was never sure of their salvation. I accepted Christ shortly before logging on, just now. Because of my OCD, I will likely continue to battle doubts. But one verse I am keeping in mind is: "Being confidant of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ."

Please do not misunderstand me. I am voicing the Reformed position when I said that you are not saved at all if you continue to accept Christ. We Catholics accept Christ multiple times. We accept Him at Holy Communion. But we believe we can also receive Him as many times as we want through prayer. This is called Spiritual Communion. So if you want to receive Christ multiple times, your practice is more compatible with Catholic belief that with Reformed.

I encourage you to ask your pastor if it is OK that a person can accept Christ multiple times. I think he would say "no". I doubt that that he would even give an exception to one who has OCD.

As far as the verse you quoted, it was from a letter that Paul wrote to the church in Philippi. Now, according to the Reformed evangelical teaching, no one is a Christian just because he goes to a church. And yet Paul is writing that he is confident that God has started a good work in all who attend that church and will complete His work on every who attends that church! But if that is the case, then a person is saved just by going to church!

Instead, I think you are reading way too much in the word "confident". A doctor could say to his patient "I am confident you will be just fine!". This is just a word of encouragement, not a word of prophecy. In context of your quote, this is shown to be just a word of encouragement.

It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart and, whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God’s grace with me.
Philippians 1:7

He feels confident. He is not giving some infallible prophesy from God. He is just expressing a feeling he has for them. They have worked hard in their partnership with him in spreading the gospel. Because of this, he feels confident that God will complete His work in them.

If you go to next verses, Paul makes it even more clear that he is NOT predicting that they will automatically have God's work carried out in completion.

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,
Philippians 1:9-10

Why would Paul have to pray for them to be pure and blameless on the the day of Christ if God will absolutely complete His work in them?

Paul feels confident, but just to be sure, he prays that this happens.

So God's work being completed in them is conditional - dependent in two factors:

1. Their current spiritual condition of caring for souls (Philippians 1:7)

2. Paul's prayer for them (Philippians 1:9-10)

If one could lose their salvation, that means Jesus Christ died for some of their sins, not all of them.

The Bible says that Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Christ died not only for us Christians, but also the non-Christians. This does not mean that all go to heaven. By no means. Christ purchased our salvation, but we must receive that salvation purchased for us. If we choose not to receive that salvation for us, we are not saved. But that does not negate that Christ purchased our salvation. Christ does not go back in time and un-dies for them.

He died for all, even though all do not turn to Him. To deny this is to fall into a works-salvation. It is saying that Christ only died for those who first proved that that they were worthy of His death.

He died for their sins committed up until the point that, after initial salvation, they walk away from Him. That Jesus died for some of a person's sins and not others goes against the sweep of biblical theology.

That is only your interpretation of biblical theology.

Christ died for us when when we were still sinners (Romans 5:8). He died for us while we were yet sinners, when we were children of wrath. He died for the non-Christian who never turns to Him. And He died for the Christian who was once enlightened, who once tasted the heavenly gift, who once shared in the Holy Spirit, who had once tasted the goodness of the Word of God and then who has now turned away from Him (Hebrews 6:4).