Russia is ready to “swallow” Europe whole?

[Nithavela]

To correct your understanding of the start of WW2, the United Kingdom declared war on Germany on 3rd September 1939, which was two days after Germany invaded Poland. On the same day, France also declared war on Germany. As for the Soviet Union, they invaded Poland from the east on 17th September 1939, which was 16 days after Nazi Germany’s invasion from the west.

During the late 1700’s, Poland faced a series of partitions orchestrated by Russia, Prussia, and Austria. These partitions progressively reduced Poland’s size until, after the final partition, the state of Poland ceased to exist. Russia played a significant role in this process, annexing substantial portions of Polish territory. The partitions lasted until Poland’s restoration as an independent nation in 1918.

Without excusing Soviet Russia’s decision to annex Poland at the start of WW2, as Russia had only lost Poland 20 years earlier, having owned much of modern day Poland from 1793 – 1918, this made the decision to keep parts of Poland out of German hands and easy decision to make.

It probably made their decision even easier that they had already partitioned up Poland in a pact with germany.

 

[Biblicist]

It probably made their decision even easier that they had already partitioned up Poland in a pact with germany.

The Pact with Germany was made about 140 years after Catherine II the Great annexed Poland, at least I think that it was during her rule.
It should be pointed out that before Soviet Russia annexed the eastern portion of Poland, both Poland and Hungary joined Germany in attacking and annexing portions of Czechoslovakia; so depending on ones point of view, WW2 had its beginning about 12 months earlier with the attack upon Czechoslovakia by Germany, Poland and Hungary.

 

[Hans Blaster]

To correct your understanding of the start of WW2, the United Kingdom declared war on Germany on 3rd September 1939, which was two days after Germany invaded Poland. On the same day, France also declared war on Germany. As for the Soviet Union, they invaded Poland from the east on 17th September 1939, which was 16 days after Nazi Germany’s invasion from the west.

During the late 1700’s, Poland faced a series of partitions orchestrated by Russia, Prussia, and Austria. These partitions progressively reduced Poland’s size until, after the final partition, the state of Poland ceased to exist. Russia played a significant role in this process, annexing substantial portions of Polish territory. The partitions lasted until Poland’s restoration as an independent nation in 1918.

Without excusing Soviet Russia’s decision to annex Poland at the start of WW2, as Russia had only lost Poland 20 years earlier, having owned much of modern day Poland from 1793 – 1918, this made the decision to keep parts of Poland out of German hands and easy decision to make.

Poland wasn't Russia's to take in 1939 and 2 weeks delay while their ally attacks from the other side of Poland is no excuse.

 

[Biblicist]

Poland wasn't Russia's to take in 1939 and 2 weeks delay while their ally attacks from the other side of Poland is no excuse.

I agree with you! What I was originally pointing out to Nithavela was that the decision by Soviet Russia to invade and re-annexe Poland was not the start of WW2, which had started about 12 days earlier. In addition, at no time were Germany and Russia considered to be allies.

 

[wing2000]

I'm not part of the darkness that is ruling this nation as I'm a citizen of the Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ and as such I'm just passing thru and am not of this world.

...and yet here you are pretending to know the will of God (which just happens to align with your political views).

 

[Nithavela]

I agree with you! What I was originally pointing out to Nithavela was that the decision by Soviet Russia to invade and re-annexe Poland was not the start of WW2, which had started about 12 days earlier. In addition, at no time were Germany and Russia considered to be allies.

Of course they were allies. Russia was essential to germanys efforts to rebuild their war machine, and also one of germanys biggest creditors. Maybe just allies of convenience, but so was the relationship of Russia with the USA and UK.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

To correct your understanding of the start of WW2, the United Kingdom declared war on Germany on 3rd September 1939, which was two days after Germany invaded Poland. On the same day, France also declared war on Germany. As for the Soviet Union, they invaded Poland from the east on 17th September 1939, which was 16 days after Nazi Germany’s invasion from the west.

During the late 1700’s, Poland faced a series of partitions orchestrated by Russia, Prussia, and Austria. These partitions progressively reduced Poland’s size until, after the final partition, the state of Poland ceased to exist. Russia played a significant role in this process, annexing substantial portions of Polish territory. The partitions lasted until Poland’s restoration as an independent nation in 1918.

Without excusing Soviet Russia’s decision to annex Poland at the start of WW2, as Russia had only lost Poland 20 years earlier, having owned much of modern day Poland from 1793 – 1918, this made the decision to keep parts of Poland out of German hands and easy decision to make.

While what you've said is correct, that doesn't change the fact that Germany and Russia agreed a plan to invade Poland together and teamed up to carry it out. And it was this invasion of Poland (first by Germany, yes) that started WW2.

Would Germany have invaded if they couldn't count on Russia to not weaken Poland and thus hasten their fall before the Allies could intervene, remains to be speculated on. And while we can call it "keeping Poland out of German hands", it doesn't change the fact that Russia teamed up with actual nazis to invade a neutral country.

 

[Biblicist]

While what you've said is correct, that doesn't change the fact that Germany and Russia agreed a plan to invade Poland together and teamed up to carry it out. And it was this invasion of Poland (first by Germany, yes) that started WW2.

Would Germany have invaded if they couldn't count on Russia to not weaken Poland and thus hasten their fall before the Allies could intervene, remains to be speculated on. And while we can call it "keeping Poland out of German hands", it doesn't change the fact that Russia teamed up with actual nazis to invade a neutral country.

Of interest, is that Soviet Russia wanted more than to regain a portion of their old territory of Poland, as the Soviets also wanted to seize the three Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, along with portions of Romania.

As to the agreement between Germany and Russia, this was not a treaty but a non-aggression pact between two parties that over the previous seven years had learned to hate each other, this hatred on the part of Germany and the distrust of Germany by Russia occurred when Hitler seized power.
https://www.britannica.com/event/German-Soviet-Nonaggression-Pact

- - - - -
To add in a bit of complexity, before the rise of Hitler, leading up until this time German tank crews were being trained not only by Russians but in Russia itself. After Hitler came to power, when he discovered that this was happening he quickly cancelled the training agreement with Russia.
https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/company/history/125-years-rheinmetall/years-1918-1935

At the risk of oversimplifying a complex situation, prior to WW2 we also had the ongoing Russo-Finnish War where the ‘pretext’ for Soviet Russia invading Finland was to protect St.Petersburg from an expected German threat.
Prior to Russia attempting to coerce Finland into swapping territory with Russia, the Russian did attempt to establish an alliance with both Britain and France, but as Britain indicated that it would support Finland against Russia this also made any alliance between Russia, Britain and France impossible.
https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/channels/vol2/iss2/4?utm_source=digitalcommons.cedarville.edu%2Fchannels%2Fvol2%2Fiss2%2F4&utm_medium=PDF&utm_campaign=PDFCoverPages

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1943v03/d208

https://www.history.com/news/what-was-the-winter-war

 

[Biblicist]

Of course they were allies. Russia was essential to germanys efforts to rebuild their war machine, and also one of germanys biggest creditors. Maybe just allies of convenience, but so was the relationship of Russia with the USA and UK.

What Germany and Soviet Russia agreed to was known as the German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact also knows as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact which is what enemies agree to, it is not the same as being allies.

 

[Nithavela]

What Germany and Soviet Russia agreed to was known as the German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact also knows as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact which is what enemies agree to, it is not the same as being allies.

Of course. Germany and the USSR were such staunch enemies that when the former invaded the latter, the USSR was still sending trainloads of coal into the Third Reich. [/sarcasm]

And anyway, german history doesn't start in 1933. There were plenty of cooperations during the time of the Weimar Republic.

 

[Pommer]

Would Germany have invaded if they couldn't count on Russia to not weaken Poland and thus hasten their fall before the Allies could intervene, remains to be speculated on. And while we can call it "keeping Poland out of German hands", it doesn't change the fact that Russia teamed up with actual nazis to invade a neutral country.

If the neighbor of your neighbor attacks that neighbor, that mere fact that you’d already amassed troops along your and the invadee’s border is just “good chess”, your [invadee’s] neighbor can be a [D]MZ, to safeguard the Homeland. Coincidences happen, but this wasn’t one of those.

 

[Biblicist]

Of course. Germany and the USSR were such staunch enemies that when the former invaded the latter, the USSR was still sending trainloads of coal into the Third Reich. [/sarcasm]

And anyway, german history doesn't start in 1933. There were plenty of cooperations during the time of the Weimar Republic.

I agree with you in that both Germany and Soviet Russia maintained many trade links right up until Germany invaded Russia. In another post, I also referred to how under the Germain Weimar Republic that Russia trained post-WW1 German tank crews on Russian soil, which Hitler quickly stopped once he gained power (1933?).

The coal that you referred to apparently came from Soviet Ukraine, in what we now know as the disputed Donbas region which has now rejoined with Russia -- history has a habit of repeating itself where many European leaders seem to be unable to learn from past mistakes.

 

[Biblicist]

If the neighbor of your neighbor attacks that neighbor, that mere fact that you’d already amassed troops along your and the invadee’s border is just “good chess”, your [invadee’s] neighbor can be a [D]MZ, to safeguard the Homeland. Coincidences happen, but this wasn’t one of those.

Oddly enough, just before WW2 commenced, Poland was not exactly neutral in that along with Germany it also invaded a portion of Czechoslovakia as did Hungary.

 

[Pommer]

Oddly enough, just before WW2 commenced, Poland was not exactly neutral in that along with Germany it also invaded a portion of Czechoslovakia as did Hungary.

Yes, this is also, “save the homeland!” by keeping “the war” away from the homeland.
Nations jockeyed for “position”.

 

[Biblicist]

Yes, this is also, “save the homeland!” by keeping “the war” away from the homeland.
Nations jockeyed for “position”.

You should find the following animation interesting that shows how the European boundaries have changed over the centuries. Many would be surprised that Poland did not exist from around 1790 up until 1920.

Animation: How the European Map Has Changed Over 2,400 Years

The history of Europe is breathtakingly complex, but this animation helps makes sense of 2,400 years of change on the European map.

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[Hans Blaster]

I agree with you! What I was originally pointing out to Nithavela was that the decision by Soviet Russia to invade and re-annexe Poland was not the start of WW2, which had started about 12 days earlier. In addition, at no time were Germany and Russia considered to be allies.

Germany's decision to invade Poland was made knowing full well that the USSR wouldn't stop them. The agreement was made just one week before the invasion started and Germany and the USSR had agreed to "spheres of influence". At minimum they were wolves at the feast. As the war progressed over the next year, Germany took parts of west-central Poland that had been designated in the Soviet sphere, the Soviets invaded Lithuania that had been designated in the German sphere, and the Soviets failed to capture Finland. Otherwise things went according to their plan.

 

[rjs330]

The Pact with Germany was made about 140 years after Catherine II the Great annexed Poland, at least I think that it was during her rule.
It should be pointed out that before Soviet Russia annexed the eastern portion of Poland, both Poland and Hungary joined Germany in attacking and annexing portions of Czechoslovakia; so depending on ones point of view, WW2 had its beginning about 12 months earlier with the attack upon Czechoslovakia by Germany, Poland and HuHungary.

This is a great example of what I have been saying for years. This entire world is built upon the premise of force. Kne group with more power takes from someone who doesn't have the ability to defend itself. Land only belongs to those who have the power to take it and hold onto it. Going back to the beginning of time it has always been this way. Armies are there to kill people and break things. That's their purpose. It could be just for defense of the land you took from others or to try and take land from others. It's the way if the world and it will always be that way. It's just another example of rhe depravity of man.

 

[rjs330]

...and yet here you are pretending to know the will of God (which just happens to align with your political views).

The will of God is contained in rhe scriptures. What he does and what he says is also contained there. When it comes to what's going on and what is going g to happen there is prophecy to say what IS going to happen. Politics are irrelevant. The end times began as soon as Christ left us. Rhe wind down to the end of history began then. Everything that goes on in the world is a movement toward rhe Last Day.

Politics has nothing to do with it. Politics will be used by man to continue to drive down the road to the end. Further away from God. Further away from repentance to the point where 4hey actually become such enemies of God that they will go to war against the Lamb.

 

[wing2000]

The will of God is contained in rhe scriptures. What he does and what he says is also contained there. When it comes to what's going on and what is going g to happen there is prophecy to say what IS going to happen. Politics are irrelevant. The end times began as soon as Christ left us. Rhe wind down to the end of history began then. Everything that goes on in the world is a movement toward rhe Last Day.

Politics has nothing to do with it. Politics will be used by man to continue to drive down the road to the end. Further away from God. Further away from repentance to the point where 4hey actually become such enemies of God that they will go to war against the Lamb.

You may want to make that point to the person I was responding to....RockGuy.