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Respectful Question on Doctrinal Development

ArmyMatt

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put another way, in his book That They All Shall be Saved, he says that the God of the OT is not the Father of Christ, but actually a pagan storm god. that means he fundamentally disagrees with every Ecumenical Council since Constantinople I.

Nestorians aren’t even that bad.
 
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AveChristusRex

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Hart is a universalist and marcionite, who dismisses anyone that disagrees with him to include the Fathers as being stupid or immoral.

his translation of the NT was laughable (one of my Scripture professors dissected it with fellow Coptic, Greek, and Antiochian students).

very few Orthodox take him seriously, and he might not even commune regularly anymore, which means he doesn’t speak for us at all. none of the major seminaries teach his stuff. in fact, when I did OISM with other seminaries, he was one who everyone said to avoid.
The point was that he is able to preach his theology and is still in the confines of the Orthodox Church; in fact in 2017, Hart served on a special commission of Orthodox theologians for Patriarch Bartholomew to help compose "For the Life of the World: Toward a Social Ethos of the Orthodox Church" and to coauthor the preface. Along with that, in February 2022, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (in collaboration with the Orthodox Christian Studies Center of Fordham University) invited Hart to deliver a public homily. Not only that but your own OCA Archbishop Alexander Golitzin recorded a public interview on January 14, 2022, in which he named Hart's book That All Shall Be Saved and said that it "draws upon some very prominent and worthy and holy teachers" in the early church who held that the "love of God will ultimately overcome the capacity of the creature to say no to God."
 
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AveChristusRex

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put another way, in his book That They All Shall be Saved, he says that the God of the OT is not the Father of Christ, but actually a pagan storm god. that means he fundamentally disagrees with every Ecumenical Council since Constantinople I.

Nestorians aren’t even that bad.
In regards to Orthodox-Catholic relations, he is highly looked upon for his thesis Myth of Schism.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The point was that he is able to preach his theology and is still in the confines of the Orthodox Church; in fact in 2017, Hart served on a special commission of Orthodox theologians for Patriarch Bartholomew to help compose "For the Life of the World: Toward a Social Ethos of the Orthodox Church" and to coauthor the preface. Along with that, in February 2022, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (in collaboration with the Orthodox Christian Studies Center of Fordham University) invited Hart to deliver a public homily. Not only that but your own OCA Archbishop Alexander Golitzin recorded a public interview on January 14, 2022, in which he named Hart's book That All Shall Be Saved and said that it "draws upon some very prominent and worthy and holy teachers" in the early church who held that the "love of God will ultimately overcome the capacity of the creature to say no to God."
Vladyka Alexander has also pointed out errors he made on a recent symposium on universal salvation.

still, so what?
 
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ArmyMatt

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In regards to Orthodox-Catholic relations, he is highly looked upon for his thesis Myth of Schism.
and within Orthodoxy, he isn’t taken seriously. put it as another seminary professor said, “Hart is nothing more than a universalist Marxist with a philosophy degree and a thesaurus.”
 
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AveChristusRex

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Vladyka Alexander has also pointed out errors he made on a recent symposium on universal salvation.

still, so what?
and within Orthodoxy, he isn’t taken seriously. put it as another seminary professor said, “Hart is nothing more than a universalist Marxist with a philosophy degree and a thesaurus.”
He is able to take communion...?
 
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ArmyMatt

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He is able to take communion...?
last I heard he doesn’t.

but even if he did, so what? even after Nicaea there were still Arians, Semi-Arians, and the Orthodox communing together. that doesn’t validate Arianism.
 
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AveChristusRex

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last I heard he doesn’t.

but even if he did, so what? even after Nicaea there were still Arians, Semi-Arians, and the Orthodox communing together. that doesn’t validate Arianism.
No, but to my knowledge, they have not restricted the chalice to Hart.
 
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ArmyMatt

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No, but to my knowledge, they have not restricted the chalice to Hart.
right, so just because he communes (if he does), that’s not some gotcha by pointing him out. our saints say Rome is heretical. that means more than academics.
 
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AveChristusRex

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right, so just because he communes (if he does), that’s not some gotcha by pointing him out. our saints say Rome is heretical. that means more than academics.
No, but it gives wiggle room I think, at least within "world orthodoxy"
 
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ArmyMatt

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No, but it gives wiggle room I think, at least within "world orthodoxy"
no it doesn’t. it’s already been addressed. we have services that call Rome heretics. Rome is called heretical when they are received into the Church. there is no wiggle room.
 
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AveChristusRex

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no it doesn’t. it’s already been addressed. we have services that call Rome heretics. Rome is called heretical when they are received into the Church. there is no wiggle room.
In Russian Orthodoxy, but not Greek to my knowledge?
 
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AveChristusRex

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Take me for example, I was Chrismated into Orthodoxy, and still go to an Orthodox Church, but I confess the Roman faith though cannot convert because it is impossible. Therefore I am not in communion with Rome or its Pontiff. As an individual who recognizes the Orthodox Church as the Church of the first seven ecumenical councils, and confess its creed every sunday, should I be allowed to take communion? What would specifically bar me from communion in your mind?
 
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ArmyMatt

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In Russian Orthodoxy, but not Greek to my knowledge?
all Three Pillars of Orthodoxy who stood against Roman heresy were Greek. plus the new saints of Athos who are Greek.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Take me for example, I was Chrismated into Orthodoxy, and still go to an Orthodox Church, but I confess the Roman faith though cannot convert because it is impossible. Therefore I am not in communion with Rome or its Pontiff. As an individual who recognizes the Orthodox Church as the Church of the first seven ecumenical councils, and confess its creed every sunday, should I be allowed to take communion? What would specifically bar me from communion in your mind?
your confession of Rome excommunicates you.
 
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ArmyMatt

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No, but it gives wiggle room I think, at least within "world orthodoxy"
no it doesn’t. it’s already been addressed. we have services that call Rome heretics. Rome is called heretical when they are received into the Church. there is no wiggle room.
 
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