Question on Harris picture

[Ana the Ist]

It has to do with the geometry of the surface on which they're being reflected. A flat surface is going to make the images look the correct size for the distance of the image; a concave surface will make things look larger (or closer); and a convex surface will make them look smaller (or farther away). That's why makeup mirrors are concave - they act like a magnifying glass so you can see what you're doing. It's also why sideview mirrors on cars are convex (ditto for those mirrors they install on blind corners or at the end of a driveway) - they act like a fisheye lens, making things smaller so you can have a wider field of view.

This was the source of a famous gag in Jurassic Park:
View attachment 353310

Anyways, the engine cowling and aircraft fuselage are both convex, which means they're going to make the reflections look smaller than they would in a flat mirror.

No I meant the non-reflected crowd in the foreground.

Seriously....go back and look at the third picture I posted. Is Big Red on a step ladder? Or is almost everyone sitting down?

 

[iluvatar5150]

No I meant the non-reflected crowd in the foreground.

Seriously....go back and look at the third picture I posted. Is Big Red on a step ladder? Or is almost everyone sitting down?

Ok, now I see what you're saying.

I think the foreshortening is just playing tricks on you, which is kind of the point when it's used deliberately (e.g. action hero walking away from an explosion, or your corny aunt's vacation photo holding up the Tower of Pisa with her index finger). The camera perspective makes it look like these people are super packed in, but I'm not sure that's the case. It's a crowd, sure, but I think they're spaced a bit farther apart than the GA Floor section at a Metallica show. Without knowing how far apart those individuals are, it's hard to say what it should look like.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It has to do with the geometry of the surface on which they're being reflected. A flat surface is going to make the images look the correct size for the distance of the image; a concave surface will make things look larger (or closer); and a convex surface will make them look smaller (or farther away). That's why makeup mirrors are concave - they act like a magnifying glass so you can see what you're doing. It's also why sideview mirrors on cars are convex (ditto for those mirrors they install on blind corners or at the end of a driveway) - they act like a fisheye lens, making things smaller so you can have a wider field of view.

This was the source of a famous gag in Jurassic Park:
View attachment 353310

Anyways, the engine cowling and aircraft fuselage are both convex, which means they're going to make the reflections look smaller than they would in a flat mirror.

This picture @iluvatar5150

Big Red will be the woman in the grey sleeveless shirt to the left of the Kamala sign that's oddly facing the camera and not Kamala. On the right of the sign, Big White is wearing a white shirt and dark hat.

Along with other people...their size isn't something that makes sense. Obviously those closer to the camera look larger while those closer to the airplane look smaller. Yet when we compare Big Red to the sign holder (again, possibly backwards sign) she's clearly further away from the camera, yet towers over the sign holder's hands in the sky. She's also far larger than those right in front of her. There's a similar problem with Big White on the right...but if we're looking at a seated crowd (they don't look seated but it's hard to tell) on a sort of bleacher like platform from a downward angle....that could explain it.

Again maybe those signs have something on the other side....but it looks altered if I were assuming all these people were standing on level ground.

Edit- compare them to the security guard in front of the airplane stairs. We'd expect them to be a little larger...as the crowd in front of him is closer to the camera...but they're enormous. 7-8 feet tall each, or something else is going on there....and they aren't the only ones out of proportion.

 

[WolfGate]

With the plethora of supporting pictures from multiple sources, this is settled now, right?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ok, now I see what you're saying.

I think the foreshortening is just playing tricks on you, which is kind of the point when it's used deliberately (e.g. action hero walking away from an explosion, or your corny aunt's vacation photo holding up the Tower of Pisa with her index finger). The camera perspective makes it look like these people are super packed in, but I'm not sure that's the case. It's a crowd, sure, but I think they're spaced a bit farther apart than the GA Floor section at a Metallica show. Without knowing how far apart those individuals are, it's hard to say what it should look like.

You actually can do this....it's done by comparing things that don't really change (space between eyes) shapes of earlobes, distance from bottom of nose to top of lip.

When looking at altered photos with something like photoshop....distorted background lines and disproportionately limbs were easy giveaways.

In fake crowds...it depends on what is being used....but fake multiples appear (like the ones in her identity groups for Kamala zoom calls)...and disproportionate people often appear in certain situations. It really depends upon the fake crowd you're trying to generate.

For example....

Stop at 4 seconds. At a glance it appears you're looking at a lot of people....but it's pretty quickly obvious that only half as many people are in the picture, but they've been doubled to appear as more people. If 100,000 women joined that zoom call...why do that?

To make it appear as if more people support her is my best guess.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Look at these two giants next to the Kamala sign.

Big Red on the left must be about 8-9 feet tall. White shirt on the right is also enormous.




View attachment 353288

It could also simply be that there are two "Karens" there who brought their own stepping stools so as to have a head advantage over every other spectator holding an I-Phone.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It could also simply be that there are two "Karens" there who brought their own stepping stools so as to have a head advantage over every other spectator holding an I-Phone.

Right...or they could be giants...or they could be accidentally in the hobbit section.

They aren't the only ones. Big Red is the easiest example because she's so grossly larger than everyone around her. A person at her bottom left elbow has a hat and shades on...has about the same size head...so whether they are in front or behind her it's clear they are relatively close....10 feet away at most. Yet they only come up to her elbow lol and they don't appear vastly smaller than anyone else. The white line of sunlight on her left arm suggests that despite being in close proximity to everyone....no one casts a shadow on her....

So is she on a step ladder? Some Amazonian giant? Or were fake people edited into a real crowd?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Right...or they could be giants...or they could be accidentally in the hobbit section.

They aren't the only ones. Big Red is the easiest example because she's so grossly larger than everyone around her. A person at her bottom left elbow has a hat and shades on...has about the same size head...so whether they are in front or behind her it's clear they are relatively close....10 feet away at most. Yet they only come up to her elbow lol and they don't appear vastly smaller than anyone else. The white line of sunlight on her left arm suggests that despite being in close proximity to everyone....no one casts a shadow on her....

So is she on a step ladder? Some Amazonian giant? Or were fake people edited into a real crowd?

I don't know. And what's more, the trivial line of inquiry in this thread doesn't pique my curiosity to want to know more. Or to vote one way or another.

 

[Ana the Ist]

See...this photo the OP shared looked goofy as well.

That's a lot of people looking the exact same direction. This does happen when something immediately grabs your focus. You'd expect a movie theatre to look this way. You can watch a tennis match where people shift their focus from one side of the court to the other following the ball. These people are all watching an airplane door open lol...no one is looking around, looking backwards, looking sideways, etc. You have another backwards sign "Harris/Walz"....right above another backwards sign "We fight we win".



Compare that to this group of people on stage with Obama during his 2012 inaugural speech. Yes, most people are looking at him...he's the focus, it's a historic day....yet you still have people looking around, looking away, several talking to those nearby....

Yet the entirely transfixed crowd at the top....is looking at an airplane door. Many are holding their phones so high they can't possibly see the screens.

I can't say it's fake...it just doesn't look real. That's why I started zooming in on certain people to see if anything conspicuous stood out.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't know. And what's more, the trivial line of inquiry in this thread doesn't pique my curiosity to want to know more. Or to vote one way or another.

Fair enough.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Pink blouse tan bucket hat lady twins

Only difference is where they wear those black straps.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't know. And what's more, the trivial line of inquiry in this thread doesn't pique my curiosity to want to know more. Or to vote one way or another.

I agree that whether the crowd was partially faked or not is rather trivial. I do think there's an astroturfing campaign going on...and it's to drum up excitement for a previously unpopular candidate.

I was just trying to explain my thinking regarding the photo a little better....

Yes, I think the explanation of the crowd being further than it looks explains the reflection. When you compare the size of the man by the front landing gear to the front of the crowd.....he's very small and it's more obvious the airplane is probably 50+ yards from the front of the crowd.

I didn't assess the entire picture on the reflection though...I took some of the knowledge I have about fake evidence and applied it to the people in the photo. I can't say for certain but if I had to guess....I'd guess the crowd was digitally altered. I can't even guess by how much....I'm unsure.

 

[Bradskii]

I don't know. And what's more, the trivial line of inquiry in this thread doesn't pique my curiosity to want to know more. Or to vote one way or another.

I agree. I'll see you back at the flat earth discussion.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Yes and has been pointed out the crowd went from the plane all the way into the hanger.

Except that it doesn't. The crowd is several hundred feet from the plane - it just looks like they're standing right next to it due to the foreshortening effect of the camera.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Except that it doesn't. The crowd is several hundred feet from the plane - it just looks like they're standing right next to it due to the foreshortening effect of the camera.

Several hundred feet? The crowd is so close you can't see the bottom of the staircase.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Several hundred feet? The crowd is so close you can't see the bottom of the staircase.

It’s not several hundred, but it is at least 150’ or so. If you don’t understand how foreshortening works, google it. There’s enough room between them for a large SUV to make a three point turn.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It’s not several hundred, but it is at least 150’ or so.

First, I did not say it was several hundred - another poster whom I QUOTED did. You will have to bring that correction to them.

Second - how do you specifically know they were 150' (half a football field) away? Did you have someone on the ground? Or are you just guessing?

Third, if the are half a football field away, why do a number of pictures show the crowd so close you cannot see the bottom stairs?

If you don’t understand how foreshortening works, google it. There’s enough room between them for a large SUV to make a three point turn.

That is an assumption - based on what? Do you have a picture of a large SUV making a three point turn? How big is that SUV that is needs half a football field to turn around?

 

[Hans Blaster]

First, I did not say it was several hundred - another poster whom I QUOTED did. You will have to bring that correction to them.

Second - how do you specifically know they were 150' (half a football field) away? Did you have someone on the ground? Or are you just guessing?

Third, if the are half a football field away, why do a number of pictures show the crowd so close you cannot see the bottom stairs?

That is an assumption - based on what? Do you have a picture of a large SUV making a three point turn? How big is that SUV that is needs half a football field to turn around?

The last image in this BBC is a reverse shot showing the fairly large space between Harris/Walz and the crowd as they walk toward the podium. I don't know if it is 150 feet, but the crowd clearly doesn't extend to the plane stairs.

Trump falsely claims Harris crowd was faked

 

[Always in His Presence]

Let's use a somewhat know height shall we. First, we know the bald man is at the foot of the stairs. Second we know the man in the ball cap is in the front of the crowd.

We are supposed to believe that the bald man is half a football field away from the man in the cap. Yet they are almost identical in height.

How tall does that bald man need to be to be almost the same height as a man standing half a football field away?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Several hundred feet?

Based on what I've seen, there was at least 200-300 ft of separation between the plane and the crowd.

The crowd is so close you can't see the bottom of the staircase.

As I said, foreshortening. It's quite easy to take a photo in which you appear to cover up a very large object with your hand (or otherwise interact with it in a way that would be physically impossible). This is because of the forced perspective of foreshortening.

Just for reference, a Boeing 757 (the plane that that particular government transport is based on) is ~150ft long. The length of the crowd in front of it is much less than 150 ft. You'd need around 75-100 people standing shoulder-to-shoulder to equal 150 ft, and there are probably less than 50 across in the photo.

This article from the NY Times does a good breakdown of several different angles that show the distance more clearly: Despite Trump’s Claims, Footage Shows Large Crowd at Harris’s Detroit Rally