Proof of "flat" earth.

[sandwiches]

Using brains that came from where?

Mine came from my mom. Where did yours come from?

 

[Split Rock]

I think I'll take a different stance here, just for the sake of a good discussion.

I don't necessarily believe this myself, but I want to see where this goes; and so I will kind of argue this point from a pov that is a little stronger than dad's and mine put together.

But here goes.

How do you know that, in the beginning and before the Fall, the earth wasn't:

1. geocentric
2. flat

I'm only interested in how you know this.

I have a similar question... How do you know that in the beginning and before the Fall, the earth wasn't:

1. A slab of swiss cheese with holes in it.
2. Hexagonal.

I'm only interested in how you know this.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have a similar question... How do you know that in the beginning and before the Fall, the earth wasn't:

1. A slab of swiss cheese with holes in it.
2. Hexagonal.

I'm only interested in how you know this.

I'm not interested in your 'similiar' question.

That word shows me you have a mental block that will prevent you from fully understanding.

 

[Split Rock]

I'm not interested in your 'similiar' question.

That word shows me you have a mental block that will prevent you from fully understanding.

Is that similar to the mental block that has continued to lead you down the gopher hole of misinterpreted scripture?

But, in any case, I have an answer to your question: Scripture (The Documentation) does not tell us that the shape of the earth changed, therefore it did not.

 

[hasone]

I should explicitly state one of my assumptions here, namely, that the bible is not a great source of assumptions.

For a variety of reasons, I value math, science, puppies, rainbows, music, and love more highly than I do that particular book. From my perspective, these things are awesome, and the Bible isn't.

I have been told that it is possible to think that the Bible is awesome and that the assumptions underpinning evolution and physics and geology are also awesome. I personally don't, so I can't really comment much on that.

edit: the idea of this post is that it helps explain my statements in my last post in this thread. seems a bit non-sequitur a page later

 

[SkyWriting]

Show me evidence of the Fall, first, and then we can discuss whether the world was different before it.

People are angry at injustice in the world. That's not a natural state for animals. People are concerned about hunger. That's not natural. People believe in God. That's not normal behavior for animals. I could list thousand more items that man is concerned about, that makes people angry at a "god" they don't even believe exists!

Clearly man has fallen off of something. It's not natural for people to be so angry about stuff they have no business thinking should be different. If not fallen from Gods grace, then fallen out of the evolutionary tree we grew up in. Because survival of the fittest should be our happy zone, not the whiner zone. "So what if people die. Lets go git their stuff and eat their food."

 

[Greg1234]

Science is a method developed by man, actually. Much in the same manner that the concepts or deities were developed, but for different reasons. One was developed to learn more about the universe, and the other was to provide emotional comfort.

Well you have to admit, thinking you can use magnetic fields to get out of a forest is emotionally comforting. That's why it was "developed." Science and magnetic fields are two different things.

 

[Hespera]

People are angry at injustice in the world. That's not a natural state for animals. People are concerned about hunger. That's not natural. People believe in God. That's not normal behavior for animals. I could list thousand more items that man is concerned about, that makes people angry at a "god" they don't even believe exists!

Clearly man has fallen off of something. It's not natural for people to be so angry about stuff they have no business thinking should be different. If not fallen from Gods grace, then fallen out of the evolutionary tree we grew up in. Because survival of the fittest should be our happy zone, not the whiner zone. "So what if people die. Lets go git their stuff and eat their food."

What could possibly be more natural than to be concerned about food? strees, without a little stress nobody would ever do anything.

People believe in God.

Some believe in this one some in that one some i n those ones, some in none.

people angry at a "god" they don't even believe exists!

What, you think that people who dont believe in god are simply insane?

Clearly man has fallen off of something

good example of the difference between magic thinking and rational thinking.

, then fallen out of the evolutionary tree we grew up in. Because survival of the fittest should be our happy zone, not the whiner zone.

Clearly you still have no more than the dimmest notion of what evolution is all about.

 

[Split Rock]

People are angry at injustice in the world. That's not a natural state for animals.

You think the family dog isn't angry or sad about injustices he/she suffers? Like not being able to eat a whole bag of dog food, or not being allowed to sit on the couch, etc.? Don't even get me started on cats!

People are concerned about hunger. That's not natural.

Sure it is. Animals go hungry in the wild all the time. You think it isn't a concern for them?

People believe in God. That's not normal behavior for animals.

It may be normal behavior for human animals.

I could list thousand more items that man is concerned about, that makes people angry at a "god" they don't even believe exists!

I'm not angry at any god. I do get angry with some god's followers on occassion, though.

Clearly man has fallen off of something. It's not natural for people to be so angry about stuff they have no business thinking should be different. If not fallen from Gods grace, then fallen out of the evolutionary tree we grew up in. Because survival of the fittest should be our happy zone, not the whiner zone. "So what if people die. Lets go git their stuff and eat their food."

We are social animals who feel empathy. That's how we evolved. We are hardly unique in having such characteristics.

 

[Greg1234]

What could possibly be more natural than to be concerned about food? strees, without a little stress nobody would ever do anything.
Some believe in this one some in that one some i n those ones, some in none.

Well in aearthism, some believe in Outer Space, some believe in "The Cosmos", some "Empty Space", some "Intercosmic Space", some "Intergalactic space" and some believe in none at all.

What, you think that people who dont believe in god are simply insane?
good example of the difference between magic thinking and rational thinking.

We tell aeathists the same thing. They and their magical orbital paths.

Clearly you still have no more than the dimmest notion of what evolution is all about.

We're talking about Darwinism actually.

 

[SignOfGod]

People are angry at injustice in the world. That's not a natural state for animals.

Not all people are angry at the injustices in the world some people only think about themselves.

People are concerned about hunger.That's not natural.

Why don't you go over to the Sudan? you will be just in time to see about a million people die of starvation, try telling them it's not natural that they should be concerned about hunger.

People believe in God.

Not everyone believes in God, not your God anyway, about 4.5 billion have other beliefs.

That's not normal behavior for animals.

We can imagine Gods that's why we have created all of our Gods.

I could list thousand more items that man is concerned about, that makes people angry at a "god" they don't even believe exists!

That's only how you would like it to be, you believe so you think that everyone else MUST believe, well they don't.

Clearly man has fallen off of something. It's not natural for people to be so angry about stuff they have no business thinking should be different. If not fallen from Gods grace, then fallen out of the evolutionary tree we grew up in. Because survival of the fittest should be our happy zone, not the whiner zone. "So what if people die. Lets go git their stuff and eat their food."

You are happy to live in a dream world and can not understand why everyone doesn't want to do the same.

Don't you think it's about time you got out and had a look around?

 

[Split Rock]

BTW.. I found a model of the cheese planet that earth used to be, before The Flood. Here it is: http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/L...eese-food-with-holes--vector-illustration.jpg

See... I was right!

 

[SkyWriting]

You think the family dog isn't angry or sad about injustices he/she suffers? Like not being able to eat a whole bag of dog food, or not being allowed to sit on the couch, etc.? Don't even get me started on cats!

I have both, And no. They could care less about "injustice" to others in the world. Sorry I wasn't clear that it wasn't about you.

Sure it is. Animals go hungry in the wild all the time. You think it isn't a concern for them?

My dog doesn't mind it. As long as he has food he doesn't give a hoot about other dogs suffering.

It may be normal behavior for human animals.

It's part of why we're not animals.

I'm not angry at any god. I do get angry with some god's followers on occasion, though.

The anger is an internal problem with you and yourself.

We are social animals who feel empathy. That's how we evolved. We are hardly unique in having such characteristics.

It may not be how we evolved. There may be better explanations.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not all people are angry at the injustices in the world some people only think about themselves.

There are no injustices. It's all in your mind.

Why don't you go over to the Sudan? you will be just in time to see about a million people die of starvation, try telling them it's not natural that they should be concerned about hunger.

It's not natural for YOU to be concerned. You should be happy. More food for you.

Not everyone believes in God, not your God anyway, about 4.5 billion have other beliefs.

Only one God created the Cosmos out of nothing. They all get credit for acknowledging that.

That's only how you would like it to be, you believe so you think that everyone else MUST believe, well they don't.

I have nothing to do with it.

You are happy to live in a dream world and can not understand why everyone doesn't want to do the same. Don't you think it's about time you got out and had a look around?

If your suggesting my faith is founded on just stories, that's incorrect. My faith is based on a 2 way relationship that can only be established through faith. I completely understand why some avoid the idea that they are accountable for their thoughts and actions. Who would seek that? That's part of the learning process.

I've traveled a few places on the globe. Mostly the populated parts though I enjoy camping a lot.

 

[Jazer]

Why don't you go over to the Sudan? you will be just in time to see about a million people die of starvation, try telling them it's not natural that they should be concerned about hunger.

God provided them with food, but someone got between them and God. I mean between them and their food. So you have a situation of man's inhumanity to man. They are not following the teachings of Jesus.

"There is, cruelly, food to be had. The land is fertile, the rains were good, and this year's harvest will be the best in a decade. But 4 million people are starving because of a civil war that Sudan has inflicted upon itself. Standing between the food and the people are 58,000 government troops and 30,000 rebels of the Sudanese People's Liberation Army. On both sides the terrible weapon is increasingly food, not bullets."​

 

[Psudopod]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

You think the family dog isn't angry or sad about injustices he/she suffers? Like not being able to eat a whole bag of dog food, or not being allowed to sit on the couch, etc.? Don't even get me started on cats!
​

I have both, And no. They could care less about "injustice" to others in the world. Sorry I wasn't clear that it wasn't about you.

Actually studies in both apes and dogs have shown a sense of fairness, and that both animals being treated unfairly and animals acting unfairly recognise this.

Sure it is. Animals go hungry in the wild all the time. You think it isn't a concern for them?

My dog doesn't mind it. As long as he has food he doesn't give a hoot about other dogs suffering.

How do you know? Can you read his mind? Maybe your dog is just selfish, but there are plenty of other examples of animals putting other's needs before their own, particularly in the case of mothers and their children.

It may be normal behavior for human animals.

It's part of why we're not animals.

What part of the definition of animal do we not meet?

I'm not angry at any god. I do get angry with some god's followers on occasion, though.

The anger is an internal problem with you and yourself.

He's not angry at god, though. Nor is any other athiest.

We are social animals who feel empathy. That's how we evolved. We are hardly unique in having such characteristics.

It may not be how we evolved. There may be better explanations.

Such as?
__________________

 

[SkyWriting]

What, you think that people who dont believe in god are simply insane?

MANY claim there cannot be a god because there are starving children in the world. That's insane logic.

Clearly you still have no more than the dimmest notion of what evolution is all about.

I'd be happy to explain any areas where you need refreshing.

Understanding Evolution

 

[Jazer]

How do you know? Can you read his mind?

You do not talk to your dog? Most people claim they can talk to their pets.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Good evening. I just recently joined and I wanted to contribute a little to this topic.

If anyone still cares, I think that the Earth is a not-quite-sphere, and that dogmatic belief that the Earth is flat, or bowl-shaped, or any other geometrical contrivance in the face of what is generally considered irrefutable evidence is bizarre and more than a little pathetic.

MANY claim there cannot be a god because there are starving children in the world. That's insane logic.

It isn't if you claim that your god is both omniscient and omnipotent, as some do.

There are no injustices. It's all in your mind.

If there are humans, there is justice.

It's not natural for YOU to be concerned. You should be happy. More food for you.

Why? Why should I be happy that other human beings are literally starving to death? Their living or dying does not significantly how much food I am able to obtain for myself. Why does this have anything to do with how I feel about the issue?

Only one God created the Cosmos out of nothing. They all get credit for acknowledging that.

What about the people who do not have belief in a god?

If your suggesting my faith is founded on just stories, that's incorrect. My faith is based on a 2 way relationship that can only be established through faith. I completely understand why some avoid the idea that they are accountable for their thoughts and actions. Who would seek that? That's part of the learning process.

Note that your faith being founded on just stories and your faith being based on a two-way relationship are not mutually exclusive statements. This is a non sequitur.

Also note that belief in a god, or even God, does not entail accountability for thoughts and actions. Conversely, lack of belief does not entail lack of accountability.

I have both, And no. They could care less about "injustice" to others in the world. Sorry I wasn't clear that it wasn't about you.

Couldn't.

And Split Rock was not asking whether dogs felt injustice about what other dogs suffered. Also, your owning dogs and cats means your testimony only equally reliable to that of any other person who has owned dogs and cats, and only marginally more reliable than someone who has never owned a dog or cat.

I feel it is arguable whether dogs have such a sense of self-awareness as to feel resentment about injustice, therefore it is a false analogy because the point is moot anyway. But I just wanted to point this out.

My dog doesn't mind it. As long as he has food he doesn't give a hoot about other dogs suffering.

How do you know?

It's part of why we're not animals.

Why are we not animals? We are classed in the kingdom Animalia. We are made of eukaryotic cells with biochemistry and structure which provides a distinction from plants, fungi, bacteria, algae, and the other kingdoms (however many you care to have) and which classes us with other lifeforms we generally classify as 'animals'. So how are we different?

The anger is an internal problem with you and yourself.

That is your opinion.

It may not be how we evolved. There may be better explanations.

It is generally not enough to simply offer criticism of a scientific theory, because any model that only partially explains the current evidence and which is of only partial value in predicting future events is always better than no model (and thus no explanation of the current evidence and no value in predicting future events). Therefore, if any scientific theory is to be discarded it should be replaced with a theory that is better.

 

[AV1611VET]

Good evening. I just recently joined and I wanted to contribute a little to this topic.

Hello -- and welcome to CF!