Proof of "flat" earth.

[Hespera]

Earth is the population center of the Cosmos.
And the only occurrence of life.
It will take science forever to finally figure that out.
It actually is the center of everything that matters.
Particularly in a spiritual book.

As it was once thought to be
so shall it always be thought to be

 

[sandwiches]

As it was once thought to be
so shall it always be thought to be

Well, as they say... you can take the fundie out of geocentrism but you can't take the geocentrism out of the fundie.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think I'll take a different stance here, just for the sake of a good discussion.

I don't necessarily believe this myself, but I want to see where this goes; and so I will kind of argue this point from a pov that is a little stronger than dad's and mine put together.

But here goes.

Well, as they say... you can take the fundie out of geocentrism but you can't take the geocentrism out of the fundie.

How do you know that, in the beginning and before the Fall, the earth wasn't:

1. geocentric
2. flat

I'm only interested in how you know this.

 

[sandwiches]

I think I'll take a different stance here, just for the sake of a good discussion.

I don't necessarily believe this myself, but I want to see where this goes; and so I will kind of argue this point from a pov that is a little stronger than dad's and mine put together.

But here goes.

How do you know that, in the beginning and before the Fall, the earth wasn't:

1. geocentric
2. flat

I'm only interested in how you know this.

As far as we can tell, the Earth has never been flat nor the center of the Solar System, let alone the universe. How do I know this? Because there was no time before the Fall, as there was never a Fall to begin with.

 

[Delphiki]

Pretty much. Also, due to how our planet was formed and was already a spherical shape billions of years before the biblical creation was supposed to have happened altogether, this means that there was no flat earth before the fall.

If you actually believed differently, then that would actually suggest a creation, then a re-creation. This would in turn mean that God not only tried to correct his mistakes in making man with the flood, but would have been correcting a mistake with all the inanimate things he created as well. You sure you want to insinuate that?

 

[AV1611VET]

As far as we can tell, the Earth has never been flat nor the center of the Solar System, let alone the universe. How do I know this? Because there was no time before the Fall, as there was never a Fall to begin with.

If that's your best argument, then I submit that believing the earth was flat and geocentric at one time is almost as valid as believing the Fall occurred.

 

[Delphiki]

Congratulations, you've just added a re-creation story to the bible. Have you sent the memo to the other authors yet?

 

[AV1611VET]

If you actually believed differently, then that would actually suggest a creation, then a re-creation. This would in turn mean that God not only tried to correct his mistakes in making man with the flood, but would have been correcting a mistake with all the inanimate things he created as well. You sure you want to insinuate that?

I admit you have a point here -- and a good one, too.

But first, let me say that, just because God "recreates" something, doesn't mean it was because it was wrong in the first place.

We are in for a new heaven coming up, and it's not because 'old heaven' was made wrong.

However, I have to agree that, at some time in the past, God would have changed the earth from flat and geocentric to round and heliocentric, which would play havoc on the Anthropic Principle.

 

[AV1611VET]

Congratulations, you've just added a re-creation story to the bible. Have you sent the memo to the other authors yet?

Man -- someone has a trigger finger.

Slow down and let someone respond, eh?

 

[Delphiki]

Man -- someone has a trigger finger.

Slow down and let someone respond, eh?

Sorry.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry.

Ain't no thang --

 

[hasone]

I think I'll take a different stance here, just for the sake of a good discussion.

I don't necessarily believe this myself, but I want to see where this goes; and so I will kind of argue this point from a pov that is a little stronger than dad's and mine put together.

But here goes.

How do you know that, in the beginning and before the Fall, the earth wasn't:

1. geocentric
2. flat

I'm only interested in how you know this.

If the laws of physics held for the past 6-8 billion years, then the earth was never flat. Informally, Gravity + mass in the conditions the earth's mass was in + time implies roughly spherical shape.

The PoV (explicitly not yours) that the laws of physics may have been different 6-8 billion years ago (or 6000 years ago) makes science , and the business of predictions that it's in, very very difficult. I happen to think that science ranks right up there with love, music, and rainbows in terms of sheer awesome factor, so I'm going to reject that possibility.

I would treat such a statement very much like the statements "at exactly 12:00 AM every thursday morning, the universe is destroyed and the recreated exactly as it was before", "no one besides me exists", or "we're all stuck in the Matrix with no way out". Interesting, fun to think about, but not particularly testable and thus not something I spend much time with.

 

[sandwiches]

If that's your best argument, then I submit that believing the earth was flat and geocentric at one time is almost as valid as believing the Fall occurred.

Your question was loaded with a premise I never agreed with. So, if your best shot at trying to undermine what knowledge is is to beg the question, then I'm afraid that's about all the effort I'm willing to put into an answer for you.

Show me evidence of the Fall, first, and then we can discuss whether the world was different before it.

 

[AV1611VET]

If the laws of physics held for the past 6-8 billion years, then the earth was never flat.

That's okay -- there's no such thing as 'the past 6-8 billion years', either.

Gravity + mass in the conditions the earth's mass was in + time implies roughly spherical shape.

You left an Ingredient out of this equation, let's correct it, shall we?

God + gravity + mass + time = ?

The PoV (explicitly not yours) that the laws of physics may have been different 6-8 billion years ago (or 6000 years ago) makes science , and the business of predictions that it's in, very very difficult.

As it should.

I love this cartoon:

I happen to think that science ranks right up there with love, music, and rainbows in terms of sheer awesome factor, so I'm going to reject that possibility.

I take science even higher: Science is a part of God's creation.

I would treat such a statement very much like the statements "at exactly 12:00 AM every thursday morning, the universe is destroyed and the recreated exactly as it was before", "no one besides me exists", or "we're all stuck in the Matrix with no way out". Interesting, fun to think about, but not particularly testable and thus not something I spend much time with.

God isn't Bill Murray, and this isn't Groundhog Day.

 

[AV1611VET]

Show me evidence of the Fall, first, and then we can discuss whether the world was different before it.

The Fall is only a border that I used and isn't crucial to my point.

If 'the Fall' bothers you, just change it to 'one year later'.

 

[Delphiki]

I take science even higher: Science is a part of God's creation.

Science is a method developed by man, actually. Much in the same manner that the concepts or deities were developed, but for different reasons. One was developed to learn more about the universe, and the other was to provide emotional comfort.

 

[sandwiches]

The Fall is only a border that I used and isn't crucial to my point.

If 'the Fall' bothers you, just change it to 'one year later'.

Before "the Fall" or before "one year after the Fall" are equally meaningless phrases.

If you're asking if I believe the world has ever been flat or the center of the Solar System or the universe, then no.

 

[AV1611VET]

Science is a method developed by man, actually.

Using brains that came from where?

 

[AV1611VET]

Before "the Fall" or before "one year after the Fall" are equally meaningless phrases.

I'm sure you meant, 'one year after the Creation' ?

 

[sandwiches]

I'm sure you meant, 'one year after the Creation' ?

Nope. I meant what I said. You said "the Fall" or "one year later." Nowhere did you mention creation there, at all.