North American Lutheran Church (NALC)

[Shane R]

I made my return to St. Matthew's NALC today. I had been on hiatus since Easter due to the directive of my former Anglican bishop. Well, he retired rather suddenly due to health problems and I've got a new bishop now. This new bishop has a very different outlook on ecumenical contacts and has told me to take all of the Lutheran bookings I care to serve. I had served St. Matthew's for about 9 months straight from summer 2023 to Easter this year. It was a bit of a homecoming. Unfortunately, in the time I was gone they had to rely on supply pastors from wherever and sometimes the lay worship leader and the ASA took a 15% hit. It went from a rebound situation to a maintenance situation.

I think and sort of know that a fair number of the NALC congregations are in maintenance mode. Congregations can hold dual affiliation with LCMC, which was basically the church growth wing of ELCA 20 years ago. Most of the church planting comes from them or is being done in foreign countries. They were hot and heavy on promoting an initiative in South Sudan for a couple of years recently.

 

[JM]

I made my return to St. Matthew's NALC today. I had been on hiatus since Easter due to the directive of my former Anglican bishop. Well, he retired rather suddenly due to health problems and I've got a new bishop now. This new bishop has a very different outlook on ecumenical contacts and has told me to take all of the Lutheran bookings I care to serve. I had served St. Matthew's for about 9 months straight from summer 2023 to Easter this year. It was a bit of a homecoming. Unfortunately, in the time I was gone they had to rely on supply pastors from wherever and sometimes the lay worship leader and the ASA took a 15% hit. It went from a rebound situation to a maintenance situation.

I think and sort of know that a fair number of the NALC congregations are in maintenance mode. Congregations can hold dual affiliation with LCMC, which was basically the church growth wing of ELCA 20 years ago. Most of the church planting comes from them or is being done in foreign countries. They were hot and heavy on promoting an initiative in South Sudan for a couple of years recently.

Just so I understand, NALC allows Anglicans to fill their pulpits? And NALC congregations can hold dual affiliation with LCMC?

 

[Shane R]

Just so I understand, NALC allows Anglicans to fill their pulpits? And NALC congregations can hold dual affiliation with LCMC?

Yes. NALC is in full altar and pulpit fellowship with ACNA and also sometimes licenses other Anglicans -such as me- too. They sometimes license only to preach but I can celebrate the sacraments. Dual affiliation yes although I think they may technically frame it that LCMC congregations can have dual affiliation with NALC. About half of the pastors here in Ohio have licenses for both. LCMC is slightly older by 4 or 5 years, maybe 6.

 

[Markie Boy]

I like a ton of what Lutheranism has. One does not have to submit to things that are clearly not apostolic or Biblical, like in Rome.

Lutheran's don't seem to sweat Apostolic Succession like RCC - which I think is huge. And allowing married clergy is another huge plus.

The Lutheran churches in my area just don't have the youth, energy, or evangelizing like the Baptists or Non-Denom's. It's like they are just not that motivated to share the Gospel. I seem to see that with all the main line churches - Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterians - they are all aging and not growing, or even maintaining well.

The Baptists have a lot of Bible study, youth groups, etc., as do the non denominationals. It seems like the churches that focus on sacraments are in this boat. Why is this?

 

[RileyG]

Yes. NALC is in full altar and pulpit fellowship with ACNA and also sometimes licenses other Anglicans -such as me- too. They sometimes license only to preach but I can celebrate the sacraments. Dual affiliation yes although I think they may technically frame it that LCMC congregations can have dual affiliation with NALC. About half of the pastors here in Ohio have licenses for both. LCMC is slightly older by 4 or 5 years, maybe 6.

They are both conservative and ordain women? I know ACNA ordains women as priests, but not as bishops.

That's my understanding anyway.

So the NALC honors Luther's Catechism and book of Concord while ACNA honors the 39 Articles in the Book of Common Prayer? Correct?

Interesting.

 

[RileyG]

I like a ton of what Lutheranism has. One does not have to submit to things that are clearly not apostolic or Biblical, like in Rome.

Lutheran's don't seem to sweat Apostolic Succession like RCC - which I think is huge. And allowing married clergy is another huge plus.

The Lutheran churches in my area just don't have the youth, energy, or evangelizing like the Baptists or Non-Denom's. It's like they are just not that motivated to share the Gospel. I seem to see that with all the main line churches - Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterians - they are all aging and not growing, or even maintaining well.

The Baptists have a lot of Bible study, youth groups, etc., as do the non denominationals. It seems like the churches that focus on sacraments are in this boat. Why is this?

There is actually Catholic priests who are married- mostly eastern rite and some latin rite who converted from Protestant denominations- albeit, they are very, very small minority.

 

[Markie Boy]

For the Catholic Church - it makes no sense. They will let a married man be priest - but only as long as he was not Catholic to start, and converts. They won't actually ordain a married man.

If Peter was the first pope - we know he was married - it just seems not what God intended to only ordain celibates.

 

[JM]

Yes. NALC is in full altar and pulpit fellowship with ACNA and also sometimes licenses other Anglicans -such as me- too. They sometimes license only to preach but I can celebrate the sacraments. Dual affiliation yes although I think they may technically frame it that LCMC congregations can have dual affiliation with NALC. About half of the pastors here in Ohio have licenses for both. LCMC is slightly older by 4 or 5 years, maybe 6.

Okay, I just didn't know NALC had succession but I guess they would since they were once ELCA.

 

[JM]

They are both conservative and ordain women? I know ACNA ordains women as priests, but not as bishops.

That's my understanding anyway.

So the NALC honors Luther's Catechism and book of Concord while ACNA honors the 39 Articles in the Book of Common Prayer? Correct?

Interesting.

They think they are conservative but no, they are not.

 

[JM]

I like a ton of what Lutheranism has. One does not have to submit to things that are clearly not apostolic or Biblical, like in Rome.

Lutheran's don't seem to sweat Apostolic Succession like RCC - which I think is huge. And allowing married clergy is another huge plus.

The Lutheran churches in my area just don't have the youth, energy, or evangelizing like the Baptists or Non-Denom's. It's like they are just not that motivated to share the Gospel. I seem to see that with all the main line churches - Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterians - they are all aging and not growing, or even maintaining well.

The Baptists have a lot of Bible study, youth groups, etc., as do the non denominationals. It seems like the churches that focus on sacraments are in this boat. Why is this?

As a former Baptist I'm evangelizing and on the evangelism committee at my congregation. We are buying ads on socials, buying a box of Bibles to hand out, working on starting a men's group next month (including whiskey), men's breakfast open to all who register, visitor cards and a visitors package which includes a Small Catechism, "What is Lutheranism" etc.

 

[RileyG]

They think they are conservative but no, they are not.

Compared to others, they aren’t overly liberal, but I’m not allowed to comment beyond that

 

[RileyG]

For the Catholic Church - it makes no sense. They will let a married man be priest - but only as long as he was not Catholic to start, and converts. They won't actually ordain a married man.

If Peter was the first pope - we know he was married - it just seems not what God intended to only ordain celibates.

It’s a discipline that can change, not actually doctrine, but I’m getting off topic.

 

[Markie Boy]

It’s a discipline that can change, not actually doctrine, but I’m getting off topic.

I understand that - but it is a discipline out of line with the Apostles, and the early church, as well as scripture. It's simply a wrong mandate.

 

[Markie Boy]

As a former Baptist I'm evangelizing and on the evangelism committee at my congregation. We are buying ads on socials, buying a box of Bibles to hand out, working on starting a men's group next month (including whiskey), men's breakfast open to all who register, visitor cards and a visitors package which includes a Small Catechism, "What is Lutheranism" etc.

Sounds great! I almost went Baptist. But I'm not down with OSAS or the whole rapture-dispensational view. What you are doing sounds good! Personally I'd skip the whiskey........

 

[JM]

Compared to others, they aren’t overly liberal, but I’m not allowed to comment beyond that

I think it's a congregation by congregation basis.

 

[JM]

Sounds great! I almost went Baptist. But I'm not down with OSAS or the whole rapture-dispensational view. What you are doing sounds good! Personally I'd skip the whiskey........

Thanks.

I will see how things go, if people are interested in having (one) whiskey I'm not against it. I would prefer cigars and pipes but that's just the old Reformed Baptist in me.

 

[Markie Boy]

Thanks.

I will see how things go, if people are interested in having (one) whiskey I'm not against it. I would prefer cigars and pipes but that's just the old Reformed Baptist in me.

Agree - I'm not against a drink on occasion, if a person can keep it there. Good luck with things!

 

[RileyG]

I think it's a congregation by congregation basis.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Shane R]

I like a ton of what Lutheranism has. One does not have to submit to things that are clearly not apostolic or Biblical, like in Rome.

Lutheran's don't seem to sweat Apostolic Succession like RCC - which I think is huge. And allowing married clergy is another huge plus.

The Lutheran churches in my area just don't have the youth, energy, or evangelizing like the Baptists or Non-Denom's. It's like they are just not that motivated to share the Gospel. I seem to see that with all the main line churches - Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterians - they are all aging and not growing, or even maintaining well.

The Baptists have a lot of Bible study, youth groups, etc., as do the non denominationals. It seems like the churches that focus on sacraments are in this boat. Why is this?

I think it is the imperative to be 'nice.' I'm not out to disparage anyone but many of the older folks were not all that particular about church affiliation. Any respectable church around town would do. This was particularly true of the business owner class of men. Often, they were more interested in what the church could do for them than what they could do for the church.

I don't think brand loyalty is a bad thing. But I've always had to deal with council/vestry members who were embarrassed to stand up for the church. They would say things like "go to the church of your choice" or "worship in your own way" without seeming to be able to comprehend why the ASA was tanking.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Compared to others, they aren’t overly liberal, but I’m not allowed to comment beyond that

That would depend on one's view of "liberal"; to paraphrase St. Augustine: 'the lesser of two liberals is still liberal'.