Modalism vs. Trinitarianism

[BenAdam]

Well, what is the difference? This isn't a place to discuss your view, but the contrast of each with the other. And do we really grasp the difference?

Link for Modalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

Link for Trinitarianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitarianism

 

[JimB]

Boy, is this a huge topic. While I subscribe to the orthodox doctrine of Trinity, I cannot say that I understand it nor I would I completely discount all that Sabellius may have taught. As the article on Modalism infers, we do not know for sure what he taught, just what his detractors said he taught.

What I have come to believe, though, is that the “Trinity” is simply how God has chosen to reveal Himself to us but I am not ready to say that the Trinity is all there is to God. IMO, to say the doctrine of the Trinity describes all of who God is is to put him into another of our neat little theological boxes (a three-cornered box at that) where we can take Him out from time to time and place him under our microscopes. Still, the Trinity is the only revelation we have as to the nature of God. And I am happy with it.

What do you think?

~Jim

 

[BenAdam]

Well as for me to begin with, I do believe in 3 seperate persons of God, but modalism may be a good tool for understanding how God exists (which is a bad word to describe God, He just is, existence seems to me to imply created).

My problem with Trinitarianism is like this argument for Ptolomaic Cosmology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicycles

Seems to violate Occam's Razor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Now logical tools and man's intellect are not foolproof by a long shot, but there seems to be some needless complexity in the issue.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Well,

Modalism teaches that God is one being who has revealed himself to mankind in three different roles, or modes. In the Old testament God revealed himself as the Father, the almighty, but remote and harsh creator God.
In the gospels, He revealed himself as the Son, the personal, close and human role. As well as the sacrifice etc.

In the present he has revealed himself as the Holy Spirit, God that functions within each of us as comforting and empowerment and revelation.

Thus God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the same person, just playing different roles.


In Trinitarianism God is one being which is manifested in three eternally co-existing persons

In this view God the Father, son, and Holy Spirit, have all existed together for all time. It is extremely difficult to come up with analogies or word-pictures of the trinity because the fact is that the concept is something outside of human experience. God is the only multi-personal being there is, thus nothing else we experience in creation is exactly like him in this way.

The trinity doctrine teaches that the Son and the Holy Spirit are products of the Father.. they exist because the father exists. They "proceed" from the Father.

one of the difficulties in concieving of this is that humans usualy think of cause preceeding effect.. since God the Father effectively causes the Son and the Spirit to exist, we think of the Father as existing first.. but this is not the case.. they have all existed eternally.

The best example I have come up with for this is the image of a fire.. a fire emits heat and light. The heat and Light proceed from the fire.. it is their source, and their cause.. yet the fire doesn't really come before the heat and light.. the very moment fire exists.. heat and light also exist.

God has created everything, but only the Son and the Spirit actually originate from the essense of the Father himself. As a result they are of the same essense, or the same being.. They are God.



In modalism, God basicly puts on a play for humanity to reveal himself in three different ways or aspects.

In trinitarianism, God reveals himself throught he Son.. the Son is the aspect of God that we see. We do not see the father, nor can we experience him in our fallen state. The Son came to provide us a way to see the Father (through seeing the Son) and a way to be joined to the Father and have communion with the Father.
The Spirit acts as a link which joins us to the Son, and through the Son, we are able to come to the Father.

 

[winsome]

Well,

Modalism teaches that God is one being who has revealed himself to mankind in three different roles, or modes. In the Old testament God revealed himself as the Father, the almighty, but remote and harsh creator God.
In the gospels, He revealed himself as the Son, the personal, close and human role. As well as the sacrifice etc.

In the present he has revealed himself as the Holy Spirit, God that functions within each of us as comforting and empowerment and revelation.

Thus God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the same person, just playing different roles.


In Trinitarianism God is one being which is manifested in three eternally co-existing persons

In this view God the Father, son, and Holy Spirit, have all existed together for all time. It is extremely difficult to come up with analogies or word-pictures of the trinity because the fact is that the concept is something outside of human experience. God is the only multi-personal being there is, thus nothing else we experience in creation is exactly like him in this way.

The trinity doctrine teaches that the Son and the Holy Spirit are products of the Father.. they exist because the father exists. They "proceed" from the Father.

one of the difficulties in concieving of this is that humans usualy think of cause preceeding effect.. since God the Father effectively causes the Son and the Spirit to exist, we think of the Father as existing first.. but this is not the case.. they have all existed eternally.

The best example I have come up with for this is the image of a fire.. a fire emits heat and light. The heat and Light proceed from the fire.. it is their source, and their cause.. yet the fire doesn't really come before the heat and light.. the very moment fire exists.. heat and light also exist.

God has created everything, but only the Son and the Spirit actually originate from the essense of the Father himself. As a result they are of the same essense, or the same being.. They are God.



In modalism, God basicly puts on a play for humanity to reveal himself in three different ways or aspects.

In trinitarianism, God reveals himself throught he Son.. the Son is the aspect of God that we see. We do not see the father, nor can we experience him in our fallen state. The Son came to provide us a way to see the Father (through seeing the Son) and a way to be joined to the Father and have communion with the Father.
The Spirit acts as a link which joins us to the Son, and through the Son, we are able to come to the Father.

That is a really neat summary. I've copied that for future use.

Thanks

 

[TreeOfLife]

Big, big topic. So big that I don't think the outside edges of it have been revealed to us. Some big brains have tackled this topic for a very long time now and they all fall short at some point.

I'm sure interested to see people's thoughts on it though.

 

[BenAdam]

I once heard someone talking about how a man can be a father, son, and brother, each different aspects of the same, but that would be considered Modalism up front. But I began to think about it. As a son, we are completely different in almost every aspect than as a father or a brother, these are very different things.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

Jesus is a man who is my friend. He has never failed me. I can walk down the street with Him just as I could with you. We can talk and be buddies. He understands me and what I am going through.
He is the word of God incarnate. That means the logosystem of God came down and inhabited a body that was prepared.
He is like a big brother who lettered in all the sports in high school... and I am trying to walk in His footsteps.
That is my concept.

 

[TreeOfLife]

I once heard someone talking about how a man can be a father, son, and brother, each different aspects of the same, but that would be considered Modalism up front. But I began to think about it. As a son, we are completely different in almost every aspect than as a father or a brother, these are very different things.

It is the "I am" aspect that prevents it from being modalisim.

That's a stunningly deep topic too though.

Hey!? Did you just start this thread to distract us from the arguements?!!!!