Limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

You mean a person is regenerated, saved and born again before he/she says "yes" to Christ?

for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
— Romans 10:13

The calling of the Lord is first, the salvation follows.

I don't know how you use the word "regenerated". I would say saved, born again, regenerated is the same thing.

Thats the regenerated one, quickened, then they show they are quickened when they call upon the name of the Lord in Faith Ps 80:18

So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

This person understood that, you dont

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You started in error !

But, you can't show why you think that? Your opinion is meaningless if you can't back it up.

 

[Brightfame52]

But, you can't show why you think that? Your opinion is meaningless if you can't back it up.

I think that because of the truth I have already set forth, and you are in contradiction.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Aint no why, its Gods word, man by nature are at enmity against God, thats why

So, you give man an excuse for not believing because you say he's naturally at enmity against God and can't believe because of that. Despite scripture saying there is no excuse for not believing (Romans 1:20). Nice job of contradicting scripture by giving man an excuse not to believe.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I think that because of the truth I have already set forth, and you are in contradiction.

What truth is that? I haven't seen any truth coming from you. You are obviously afraid to address any real challenges to your view.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

They are at enmity against its spiritual principles while we are unregenerate we are in darkness, and even darkness, and spiritual truths are light, and the indictment Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus is speaking of the unregenerate world

Jn 3:19


And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

This speaks to the natural unregenerate persons affections towards Spiritual light, he loves his darkness rather than the light, that's just how it is, total spiritual depravity.

God loves the world that the light came into and He proved that by sending His Son to die for their sins in order to give them the opportunity of eternal life by believing in Him (John 3:16). Some choose to embrace the light and accept His offer of salvation and some choose to love darkness rather than light instead. But, you can't say that God didn't give them the opportunity to be saved. Jesus died to give all people that opportunity. Even the false prophets and teachers that Peter wrote about here.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Notice that those who deny Christ and what He did for them "bring upon themselves swift destruction". It's not God bringing destruction on them by withholding faith from them. They bring it upon themselves because they choose to deny Christ and what He did for them and the gracious offer of salvation that God made to them.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Aint no why, its Gods word, man by nature are at enmity against God, thats why

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Even "babes in Christ" (immature Christians) can be carnally minded, but that doesn't mean they don't believe in Christ. It means they are spiritually immature and need to start growing up spiritually.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Saying "Yes" is the result of being regenerated.

Would you agree that someone is regenerated when they receive the Holy Spirit? If so, what do you make of this...

John 20:18 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Surely, the disciples had already said "Yes" to Jesus before this event that took place after His resurrection. Yet, they did not receive the Holy Spirit and were not regenerated until AFTER saying "Yes" to Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ didnt die for all mankind, but He died for them that had their names written in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Lk 10:20

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. 16

 

[Brightfame52]

So, you give man an excuse for not believing because you say he's naturally at enmity against God and can't believe because of that. Despite scripture saying there is no excuse for not believing (Romans 1:20). Nice job of contradicting scripture by giving man an excuse not to believe.

Yeah man is naturally in mind at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Naturally we dont understand nor seek after the True God, Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now if you feel Rom 1:20 contradicts these truths, then prove it, I see no contradiction, the onus is on you since you brought the verse up

 

[Brightfame52]

God loves the world that the light came into and He proved that by sending His Son to die for their sins in order to give them the opportunity of eternal life by believing in Him (John 3:16). Some choose to embrace the light and accept His offer of salvation and some choose to love darkness rather than light instead. But, you can't say that God didn't give them the opportunity to be saved. Jesus died to give all people that opportunity. Even the false prophets and teachers that Peter wrote about here.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Notice that those who deny Christ and what He did for them "bring upon themselves swift destruction". It's not God bringing destruction on them by withholding faith from them. They bring it upon themselves because they choose to deny Christ and what He did for them and the gracious offer of salvation that God made to them.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

But you have failed to disprove my verses about the spiritual condition of men. Then you need to exegete each of your verses and show how they contradict limited atonement, I have put my work in already.

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Even "babes in Christ" (immature Christians) can be carnally minded, but that doesn't mean they don't believe in Christ. It means they are spiritually immature and need to start growing up spiritually.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Makes no difference the natural man isnt a babe in Christ, he or she is nothing but the flesh. The babe in Christ has been regenerated and has another spiritual man to fight against the flesh, yet the unregenerate doesnt, so the comparison is futile

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yeah man is naturally in mind at enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Naturally we dont understand nor seek after the True God, Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now if you feel Rom 1:20 contradicts these truths, then prove it, I see no contradiction, the onus is on you since you brought the verse up

Even "babes in Christ" can be carnally minded, so if having a carnal mind supposedly means someone can't believe in Jesus, how do you explain this:

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

The carnal mind cannot understand the meat or solid food of God's word (the deeper things), but it can understand the milk of God's word like the simple gospel message.

As for none seeking God, that's in the case if God did not reach out to people. But, He does with the gospel and talking to people with His Holy Spirit to show them their sin. You can't just say none seek God and leave it at that. You can't just look at one part of the story and ignore the rest. What do you make of this...

Hebrews 11:But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Brightfame52]

Even "babes in Christ" can be carnally minded, so if having a carnal mind supposedly means someone can't believe in Jesus, how do you explain this:

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

The carnal mind cannot understand the meat or solid food of God's word (the deeper things), but it can understand the milk of God's word like the simple gospel message.

As for none seeking God, that's in the case if God did not reach out to people. But, He does with the gospel and talking to people with His Holy Spirit to show them their sin. You can't just say none seek God and leave it at that. You can't just look at one part of the story and ignore the rest. What do you make of this...

Hebrews 11:But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

We not talking about spiritual babes, they are regenerated, but the unregenerated their minds are enmity against God and cannot please God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Your reference to the spiritual babes is unreasonable

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Makes no difference the natural man isnt a babe in Christ, he or she is nothing but the flesh. The babe in Christ has been regenerated and has another spiritual man to fight against the flesh, yet the unregenerate doesnt, so the comparison is futile

No, it is not. It shows that you can be carnal and still believe in Christ at the same time. You associate being carnal with having no ability to repent and believe in Christ, but scripture does not. Being carnal prevents someone from understanding the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10) which are spiritual meat or solid food (1 Cor 3:2) and prevents someone from being a mature Christian. It does not prevent someone from acknowedging their sins and putting their faith in Christ.

Your arguments are weak. You are clearly not willing to actually think about this carefully because you believe what you want to believe.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

We not talking about spiritual babes, they are regenerated, but the unregenerated their minds are enmity against God and cannot please God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Your reference to the spiritual babes is unreasonable

I'm showing that being carnal prevents someone from understanding the deep things of God, which are the spiritual meat of His word. Being carnal does not prevent someone from understanding and taking in spiritual milk like the simple gospel message. You are trying to avoid addressing my point.

 

[Brightfame52]

No, it is not. It shows that you can be carnal and still believe in Christ at the same time. You associate being carnal with having no ability to repent and believe in Christ, but scripture does not. Being carnal prevents someone from understanding the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10) which are spiritual meat or solid food (1 Cor 3:2) and prevents someone from being a mature Christian. It does not prevent someone from acknowedging their sins and putting their faith in Christ.

Your arguments are weak. You are clearly not willing to actually think about this carefully because you believe what you want to believe.

The babes in Christ arent the natural man in the flesh, they have the Spirit, so its not the same thing

 

[Brightfame52]

I'm showing that being carnal prevents someone from understanding the deep things of God, which are the spiritual meat of His word. Being carnal does not prevent someone from understanding and taking in spiritual milk like the simple gospel message. You are trying to avoid addressing my point.

They're not the same, the regenerate person with the Spirit isnt in the flesh Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The unregenerate are in the flesh and cannot please God ! Your comparison is unequal

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The babes in Christ arent the natural man in the flesh, they have the Spirit, so its not the same thing

You're not getting it. Just as the carnal natural man unbeliever is not able to understand the deep things of God (1 Cor 2:9-16), carnal babes in Christ are not able to understand the spiritual meat or solid food of God's word. Nothing says that being carnal keeps someone from understanding and responding to the simple gospel message. You are evading this point and not addressing it.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

They're not the same, the regenerate person with the Spirit isnt in the flesh Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The unregenerate are in the flesh and cannot please God ! Your comparison is unequal

They cannot do good works that please God. We're not saved by good works, we're saved by grace through faith. It doesn't say they can't recognize that they are sinners while recognizing their need to repent.

How is it possible for the unbelieving Jews who Stephen rebuked to have resisted the Holy Spirit? You think God has no interest in reaching out to anyone but the elect, right? Why would Stephen get upset at them for resisting the Holy Spirit if God was not reaching out to them to get them to repent?

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!