LDS questions and answers

[Aaron11]

As can be seen by this parade of statistics, those who are posters on this message board talents might be more profitably spent in their own congregations rather than in pointing at the proverbial mote in their neighbor's eye. (adapted from "Lamanites, the Seed of Cain, and Polygamy" by Juliann Reynolds)

Haha. Well, this is a thread about Mormonism, so I would think the topic would be on the Mormon church and such. I don't see your point in saying, "well other churches were acting incorrectly too!", and that seems to be the essence of this quote. If your church really is guided by God who speaks through your prophet, your prophet should not speak doctorine that is incorrect ever (even in other churches are acting incorrectly).

 

[calgal]

I'm not DocT, but I'd like to discuss your "facts"
The LDS church believes we have the POTENTIAL to be like our Father in Heaven (Rom 8:17). We DON'T worship anyone as our God, except God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, and the Holy Ghost (Article of Faith #1).

"What man is God once Was, What God is, man will become" is more than a couplet (GBH quote). What happenned to One God from beginning to the end?

These are our scripture. You have been mis-informed!

Not all sin! (Matt 12:31). We do believe just as you stated with the exception described in Matt & Luke.

Not exactly. I had an interesting experience in one of my wards. The Second Counselor in the Relief Society took it upon herself to inform me of who was disfellowshipped and why in the ward. That information follows the person from ward to ward. The concept that someone who HAD been disciplined would NOT be allowed a leadership position in the LDS church also makes my point that forgiveness is not total.

Better yet, how about reading the entire bible and not cropping selected verses to mean what you want and read them in the context of the epistle and the bible.

TW

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA! The pulling out verses and repositioning them out of context describes your false prophets perfectly! The Book of Mormon is as valid as the JW's abridged bible. And your logic shows the falseness of your "stick of Joe"

 

[Wrigley]

I agree with that.

But don't you think God will come off victorious in quality and quanity of those saved in the war against Satan?

The percentages are heart-stopping of those who hear of jesus vs. those who don't. And not to mention those who reject Him by not following Him.
Something like 1 % of humanity. Doesn't that make you think?

TW

Sounds like you're handwringing is showing a distrust in God. And knowing what I know about your theology, that distrust doesn't surprise me.

 

[Wrigley]

Not exactly. I had an interesting experience in one of my wards. The Second Counselor in the Relief Society took it upon herself to inform me of who was disfellowshipped and why in the ward. That information follows the person from ward to ward. The concept that someone who HAD been disciplined would NOT be allowed a leadership position in the LDS church also makes my point that forgiveness is not total.

I know what point you're making cal, but to be totally fair, this happens in many different Christian denominations too. Gossip follows Christians church to church. But unless what they have done makes them ineligible for a leadership position, i.e. divorce, the person would still be eligible for such a position in a new church.

You make an excellent point about the total forgiveness part. When you have a works based salvation message, your salvation is based upon what your own hands must do to finish the job.

It's not about what my hands have done, its all about Him.

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA! The pulling out verses and repositioning them out of context describes your false prophets perfectly! The Book of Mormon is as valid as the JW's abridged bible. And your logic shows the falseness of your "stick of Joe"

Don't forget trusting the Bible as much as it is translated correctly. Because Joe never finished his updated/corrected version of the Bible, the Mormons have to doubt the accuracy of the Word.

And then to prove that they do have faith, they willl rip James 1:5 out of context. As if we need to ask/tell God to show that the Bible is true. Knowing that the Bible is His Word is enough. One more example of the Mormon lack of faith.

Which is to be expected since they worship a false god.

 

[ktcarlin]

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. I would like to answer your question as far as the spirit will allow me. Your question was that if God as our father he being in the position He is, our beliefs allow us to become as He.
The answer is yes. We are but the offspring of God. As His children we are eligible to obtain "all that the Father hath". As such we are capable of posessing that which He has. Never in our teachings do we suppose as to take the place of God. As when two men begin a race at different times the latter will never catch the first if going at the same pace. We will never take Gods position nor would any of us pretend to want to. There is nothing strange about the idea that our God wants us to be like Him, nor is there anything horrible about the thought that as a loving Father He doesn't want us to live with Him and partake of His glory.
Jesus came as a sinnless man to atone for the fall of adam and to atone for each of our sins if we but accept him. My question is this, If Jesus came to reconcile man to God why? For what cause? Why couldn't we just come to earth and live happy in some sin? B/c God wanted us to live with Him. And no unclean thing can live with
God. And why cant we be dirty? Obviously because we would be partakers of His glory. Now the question is what is His glory?
These are just a few of my thoughts upon this topic.

 

[Wrigley]

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. I would like to answer your question as far as the spirit will allow me.

Why would the HS hold you back?

Your question was that if God as our father he being in the position He is, our beliefs allow us to become as He.
The answer is yes. We are but the offspring of God. As His children we are eligible to obtain "all that the Father hath". As such we are capable of posessing that which He has. Never in our teachings do we suppose as to take the place of God. As when two men begin a race at different times the latter will never catch the first if going at the same pace. We will never take Gods position nor would any of us pretend to want to.

So then, are you denying that you will be able, if you work hard enough, to become a god like your god? Not of this world of course, but of one of your own making. Your reference to you running the same race, but starting much later suggests that.

There is nothing strange about the idea that our God wants us to be like Him, nor is there anything horrible about the thought that as a loving Father He doesn't want us to live with Him and partake of His glory.

Isn't there a difference here between your first statement, and this one?

Jesus came as a sinnless man to atone for the fall of adam and to atone for each of our sins if we but accept him.

Are you guilty of Adam's sin, or just your own?

My question is this, If Jesus came to reconcile man to God why? For what cause?

To bring glory to Himself.

 

[ktcarlin]

In answer to your first question Heb 5:12


Secondly, I never denied, merely laid before you the principle of fatherhood. As our Father, we will never become "better" than He is, we will always be His child. Never in that statement was there a denial of possible Godhood. For what truly is "Godhood"? Isn't it merly being a father? Just as our Heavenly Father is also God?

Third, I do not understand what first statement you were refering to. I was merely trying to show by logic why we can live with and like God one day. That is no more apparent then through the mission of Jesus Christ.

Fourth, the entire human race is a partaker of Adams fall. That is merely evident in the fact we are human, for we shall die, not of our own control. Additionally, we are guilty for our individual sins of which adam had no influence. We cannot live with God as sinful individuals, thus the need for Jesus; to purify us if we but follow all of His commandments.

Fifth, you are correct. Jesus died to bring glory to the Father. As a perfect being, why would God need additional glory? Additionally, He being perfect has no need for an increase of glory does He? Also, what takes place to bring Him added glory?

 

[Doc T]

calgal: As a non Baptist, your statistics have a nasty odor of Bigotry. But considering the fact that you are Mormon, that is hardly surprising.

Doc: Calgal, did someone kick over your garbage cans lastnight? Why all the venom?

 

[twhite982]

Sounds like you're handwringing is showing a distrust in God. And knowing what I know about your theology, that distrust doesn't surprise me.

I trust God that He will come off victorious in all areas. I don't have any distrust of God and know all will proclaim that His judgements will be fair and just. Where do you get the idea that I distrust God?

I don't see the logic in the majority of God's children who have not had sufficient opportunity to hear and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ because of their environmental, social, or economic circumstances, that they are doomed to an eternal life in hell. Has not Christ come to save all? How can they know without a preacher or ever being taught His gospel?.

Fortunately I do understand how God will balance this issue with the demand of His justice and the tender mercies for all. There are hints in the bible that show how this will come to pass. I have a broader repitoire of scripture to draw from which makes my understanding on this very much un-answered and mis-understood topic a little deeper.

I still ask for thoughts on this important subject. You are witnessing to me of your faith because you are so worried I will be left in hell, but what of the billions already who've already passed on without ever hearing anything about Christ and His gospel?

TW

 

[twhite982]

You make an excellent point about the total forgiveness part. When you have a works based salvation message, your salvation is based upon what your own hands must do to finish the job.

It's not about what my hands have done, its all about Him.

Can you show me 1 LDS scripture that says that we will save ourselves without the merits of Jesus Christ?

Have you read Mosiah where King Benjamin discourses on our complete nothingness and utter dependence on Jesus Christ?

Why is this always overlooked?

TW

 

[calgal]

calgal: As a non Baptist, your statistics have a nasty odor of Bigotry. But considering the fact that you are Mormon, that is hardly surprising.

Doc: Calgal, did someone kick over your garbage cans lastnight? Why all the venom?

How is that venomous? Your insults are cute but certainly do not answer the actual questions posted. How many NON White General Authorities are in the Quorum of the 12? And how many Non White GA's are in postitions of responsibility in the first and second quorums of the 70?

 

[Wrigley]

I trust God that He will come off victorious in all areas. I don't have any distrust of God and know all will proclaim that His judgements will be fair and just. Where do you get the idea that I distrust God?

I don't see the logic in the majority of God's children who have not had sufficient opportunity to hear and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ because of their environmental, social, or economic circumstances, that they are doomed to an eternal life in hell. Has not Christ come to save all? How can they know without a preacher or ever being taught His gospel?.

Fortunately I do understand how God will balance this issue with the demand of His justice and the tender mercies for all. There are hints in the bible that show how this will come to pass. I have a broader repitoire of scripture to draw from which makes my understanding on this very much un-answered and mis-understood topic a little deeper.

I still ask for thoughts on this important subject. You are witnessing to me of your faith because you are so worried I will be left in hell, but what of the billions already who've already passed on without ever hearing anything about Christ and His gospel?

TW

I'm not worried if you end up in hell. You will have chosen that fate for yourself. And Gods name will still be glorified.

 

[twhite982]

How is that venomous? Your insults are cute but certainly do not answer the actual questions posted. How many NON White General Authorities are in the Quorum of the 12? And how many Non White GA's are in postitions of responsibility in the first and second quorums of the 70?

There is a total of 12 + 140 = 152. So your answer is 152. They all have a little pigment in them, which would mean none of them are totally white.

Hope that answers your question.

TW

 

[Wrigley]

Can you show me 1 LDS scripture that says that we will save ourselves without the merits of Jesus Christ?

Have you read Mosiah where King Benjamin discourses on our complete nothingness and utter dependence on Jesus Christ?

Why is this always overlooked?

TW

Does your faith alone save you? Or do you need to keep the WOW, do the proxy baptisms and other related temple work to attain the highest level of salvation?

 

[twhite982]

I'm not worried if you end up in hell. You will have chosen that fate for yourself. And Gods name will still be glorified.

OK, so you're not worried about my salvation.

Would you mind answering my questions?

If you don't have an answer its ok to say so.

TW

 

[calgal]

There is a total of 12 + 140 = 152. So your answer is 152. They all have a little pigment in them, which would mean none of them are totally white.

Hope that answers your question.

TW

nice comeback. I am impressed (and sort of amused) Ok to clarify, how many are not Utah Born, and darker skinned (African American, Polynesian, Latino/Mestizo or Oriental).

 

[twhite982]

Does your faith alone save you? Or do you need to keep the WOW, do the proxy baptisms and other related temple work to attain the highest level of salvation?

Save me from what?

Save me unto what?

And what describes your definition of faith?

TW

 

[Wrigley]

There is a total of 12 + 140 = 152. So your answer is 152. They all have a little pigment in them, which would mean none of them are totally white.

Hope that answers your question.

TW

Deflection white.

 

[calgal]

Does your faith alone save you? Or do you need to keep the WOW, do the proxy baptisms and other related temple work to attain the highest level of salvation?

The party line as I recall it was "man is saved <b>After</b> doing all he can do to earn salvation."

 

[twhite982]

nice comeback. I am impressed (and sort of amused) Ok to clarify, how many are not Utah Born, and darker skinned (African American, Polynesian, Latino/Mestizo or Oriental).

Whew, I thought I might've went overboard on that last comment.

To be honest with you I don't know.
Thats something I haven't looked into. There are alot of smart LDS people here who probally have that type of party information memorized. As for me I'm a little anti-social so I don't get out to too many parties.

TW