John N. Oswalt, NIVAC or NIV Application Commentary on Isaiah 14 and the Underworld

[Job 33:6]

I would say it's important to understand something that can be clearly shown to be true.
If it cannot be shown to be true, but is a product of people's belief... especially of persons who believe that their interpretations, which is based on their beliefs, is correct, I would say, reject it, because it is not the truth.

While many cultures believe in some form of immortality of the soul, the Hebrews - the writers of the Bible did not. They believed the soul is mortal. Ezekiel 18:4
It's always best to go with the scriptures, if we want the truth about the ancient people who were under God.

I don't see this contesting an understanding of an afterlife in the Bible. Be it in heaven above or in sheol below.

 

[DRas]

Thank you, I think I need to change my name on this site, if I could choose something that best describes my foundation it would be Scriptura Sola. My concordance is my crutch.
So, Ezekiel, nothing like a little light reading to start one’s day . God isn’t happy with the Israelites, lots of law which always points towards death. The verse before talks of a proverb that shall be used no more, I haven’t figured out what that proverb is. John 5:24, yes.
No one questions physical death, or the end of our sinful body. I always understood the death of the soul as an eternal separation from God. I believe we will be raised on the last day when Christ returns. ( Until recently it never occurred to me that the common table prayer was asking for just this… I was thinking more of a come be in our midst) and I have been pretty content that the time in between as a mystery. In my mind sleep is not death.
The Bible talks about the Spirit ( Capitol, as in Holy Spirit) and our spirit, which I believe is our soul, that which lives in Christ, because of Christ. Most often spirit ( small s) is in reference to a demon. I believe the Holy Spirit enables us to grasp this to the extent a mortal being can.
I also have approached my Christian life and faith with the understanding that to the extent that the Bible addresses “the dead” my takeaway has been because of Christ’s death and resurrection it isn’t something I need to concern myself with, in fact the bible seems to indicate we are better off focusing on other things.
All that being said I find myself basically defending my faith ( against someone who should not be putting in this position) over a topic I don’t even want to explore, if that makes any sense.

It looks and feels as if satan’s first and best tool in his playbook is always the most effective, why believe God, why not just decide to be God instead. My problem is that conceptually I understand what is happening: Use Jesus as a source of wisdom and permission to ignore the OT, claim to follow Jesus as a way to understand how your God-like spirit reaches God while putting confidence in the eternal nature of one’s own spirit and vigorously defending this as Christian. ( And any pushback is decidedly unkind and un Christian).

Your comment about addressing truth rather than belief is part of my problem. This persons “truth” is based on their experience. According to them I am the one arguing based on belief.

Most of the time when the Bible speaks of a spirit it is easy to discern if it is the Holy Spirit or a spirit, as in demon. But then you get to a passage like Romans 8 and it appears to open the door to all sorts of misinterpretations. I can’t find any reference to spirits ( small s) that are not demons, but this idea seems to be the basis for the decidedly unbiblical concepts I am struggling with.

My understanding of the Bible is based on Gods omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, the law pointing to our need for salvation and Christs death and resurrection as the good news, the answer, the fulfillment of the OT. Everything I read in Bible I can put in the context of these things. I think of Gods word as a study about life, now and here after. Death is there as a function of sin, a symptom of a disease with a cure. My hope is not in me, it is in the God that created me.

I am struggling to find scriptures that speak to this different Perspective. Except perhaps..Proverbs 5

 

[CoreyD]

@DRas are you having problems using the quote system? Did you want to say something?

 

[CoreyD]

I don't see this contesting an understanding of an afterlife in the Bible. Be it in heaven above or in sheol below.

The Bible does not describe living on after death. It describes the dead as having life again, only through a resurrection - that is, a raising up to life again.
Thus the idea of a world of living dead is not consistent with what the Bible teaches.

 

[CoreyD]

Thank you, I think I need to change my name on this site, if I could choose something that best describes my foundation it would be Scriptura Sola. My concordance is my crutch.
So, Ezekiel, nothing like a little light reading to start one’s day . God isn’t happy with the Israelites, lots of law which always points towards death. The verse before talks of a proverb that shall be used no more, I haven’t figured out what that proverb is. John 5:24, yes.
No one questions physical death, or the end of our sinful body. I always understood the death of the soul as an eternal separation from God. I believe we will be raised on the last day when Christ returns. ( Until recently it never occurred to me that the common table prayer was asking for just this… I was thinking more of a come be in our midst) and I have been pretty content that the time in between as a mystery. In my mind sleep is not death.
The Bible talks about the Spirit ( Capitol, as in Holy Spirit) and our spirit, which I believe is our soul, that which lives in Christ, because of Christ. Most often spirit ( small s) is in reference to a demon. I believe the Holy Spirit enables us to grasp this to the extent a mortal being can.
I also have approached my Christian life and faith with the understanding that to the extent that the Bible addresses “the dead” my takeaway has been because of Christ’s death and resurrection it isn’t something I need to concern myself with, in fact the bible seems to indicate we are better off focusing on other things.
All that being said I find myself basically defending my faith ( against someone who should not be putting in this position) over a topic I don’t even want to explore, if that makes any sense.

It looks and feels as if satan’s first and best tool in his playbook is always the most effective, why believe God, why not just decide to be God instead. My problem is that conceptually I understand what is happening: Use Jesus as a source of wisdom and permission to ignore the OT, claim to follow Jesus as a way to understand how your God-like spirit reaches God while putting confidence in the eternal nature of one’s own spirit and vigorously defending this as Christian. ( And any pushback is decidedly unkind and un Christian).

Your comment about addressing truth rather than belief is part of my problem. This persons “truth” is based on their experience. According to them I am the one arguing based on belief.

Most of the time when the Bible speaks of a spirit it is easy to discern if it is the Holy Spirit or a spirit, as in demon. But then you get to a passage like Romans 8 and it appears to open the door to all sorts of misinterpretations. I can’t find any reference to spirits ( small s) that are not demons, but this idea seems to be the basis for the decidedly unbiblical concepts I am struggling with.

My understanding of the Bible is based on Gods omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, the law pointing to our need for salvation and Christs death and resurrection as the good news, the answer, the fulfillment of the OT. Everything I read in Bible I can put in the context of these things. I think of Gods word as a study about life, now and here after. Death is there as a function of sin, a symptom of a disease with a cure. My hope is not in me, it is in the God that created me.

I am struggling to find scriptures that speak to this different Perspective. Except perhaps..Proverbs 5

You are correct. The spirit that keeps man alive is not a living being, like the spirits God created to live in heaven (angels). Psalm 146:4; Psalm 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Isaiah 42:5

The very first lie told by Satan involves the matter of what happens when we die - Genesis 3:4, 5. So it is important we know the truth regarding this, since it involve being either on the side of truth or lies.... which is a matter of life or death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12

 

[DRas]

The Bible does not describe living on after death. It describes the dead as having life again, only through a resurrection - that is, a raising up to life again.

You are correct. The spirit that keeps man alive is not a living being, like the spirits God created to live in heaven (angels). Psalm 146:4; Psalm 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Isaiah 42:5

The very first lie told by Satan involves the matter of what happens when we die - Genesis 3:4, 5. So it is important we know the truth regarding this, since it involve being either on the side of truth or lies.... which is a matter of life or death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12

Thus the idea of a world of living dead is not consistent with what the Bible teaches.

Thanks again. I will study these passages, I know these things. I think the combination of the noise in our culture and the quiet in our churches (about these things) have not been helpful.
All of the accounts of NDE’s, the theif on the cross, “Today You will be with me in Paradise”, the accounts of (I think usually prophets) being aware of things taking place on earth… also have left me with the impression that there is an intermediate state of some sort, which, as you have rightly pointed out opens the door for false teachings.

 

[DRas]

@DRas are you having problems using the quote system? Did you want to say something?

I have not figured out the quote system.. or
Much else about this site!

 

[CoreyD]

I have not figured out the quote system.. or
Much else about this site!

I've never used "Quote", but I always use "Reply", which works to my liking, since I don't have to do anything more than reply to what I want.
I'll show you how it's done.

At the end of the post you want to respond to, you will see...

Click the

button.
The post will open at the bottom of the page.
For example...

You can type what you want, right there in the blank space. Like so...

If you aren't able to type, it means the window is out of focus, and you need to click that space, and then type.

If you want to respond to particular comments, just click at the end of the sentence, and hit enter.
A space will open up beneath the sentence.

You can then type there.

Or leave it blank, if you don't want to say anything in response.

Try it, and see how it goes.

 

[DRas]

I've never used "Quote", but I always use "Reply", which works to my liking, since I don't have to do anything more than reply to what I want.
I'll show you how it's done.

At the end of the post you want to respond to, you will see...
View attachment 359933

Click the View attachment 359934 button.
The post will open at the bottom of the page.
For example...
View attachment 359935

You can type what you want, right there in the blank space. Like so...
View attachment 359936

If you aren't able to type, it means the window is out of focus, and you need to click that space, and then type.

If you want to respond to particular comments, just click at the end of the sentence, and hit enter.
A space will open up beneath the sentence.
View attachment 359937

You can then type there.
View attachment 359938
Or leave it blank, if you don't want to say anything in response.

Try it, and see how it goes.

Thanks! Reply, I can handle . Although I noticed on the threads where people use quotes it is nice because there is less co fusion about what part of a thread is being addressed.

 

[CoreyD]

Thanks again. I will study these passages, I know these things. I think the combination of the noise in our culture and the quiet in our churches (about these things) have not been helpful.
All of the accounts of NDE’s, the theif on the cross, “Today You will be with me in Paradise”, the accounts of (I think usually prophets) being aware of things taking place on earth… also have left me with the impression that there is an intermediate state of some sort, which, as you have rightly pointed out opens the door for false teachings.

One thing to remember is that the scriptures do not contradict each other. It is our understanding, or interpretations that contradict the scriptures.
So, never try to break down the foundation. Rather, build on it.

Is it....

• "Truly I tell you..... Today you will be with me in paradise."
• "Truly I tell you today..... You will be with me in paradise."

Build on the foundation.
The Bible says Jesus died, was buried, and was raised to life on the third day. Acts 2:29-32; 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4
Jesus was dead, and could not go anywhere until after being raised up. Acts 1:3; Acts 2:33-36; 1 Corinthians 15:5-8

The idea surrounding the immortality of the soul, or spirit, causes persons to disregard the foundation... saying that the dead are living on in spirit, and they thus decide to read the text "Truly I tell you..... Today you will be with me in paradise."
This contradicts the scriptures.

"Truly I tell you today..... You will be with me in paradise.", does not contradict the scriptures, because the Bible promises a resurrection of the unrighteous, and they will be in paradise. See this post, as well as this, for more details.

I hope I am not overwhelming you, with this.
The Bible has thousands of scriptures, and it takes time to put all of them together.

 

[CoreyD]

Thanks! Reply, I can handle . Although I noticed on the threads where people use quotes it is nice because there is less co fusion about what part of a thread is being addressed.

They are using the Reply button to do that... I believe.
The quotes are automatic, which I like, because you don't have to make the quotes manually, like other forums.
All you have to do is separate each quote by simply putting the cursor where you want to split the quote, and hit enter. Done

 

[DRas]

Thanks! Reply, I can handle . Although I noticed on the threads where people use quotes it is nice because there is less co fusion about what part of a thread is being addressed.

You are correct. The spirit that keeps man alive is not a living being, like the spirits God created to live in heaven (angels). Psalm 146:4; Psalm 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Isaiah 42:5

The very first lie told by Satan involves the matter of what happens when we die - Genesis 3:4, 5. So it is important we know the truth regarding this, since it involve being either on the side of truth or lies.... which is a matter of life or death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12

I did take the time to read all of those passages. Makes me want to get a references for Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic, I have always read death to mean physical death and or eternal separation from God because of sin, depending on the passage and the context of the verse itself. Also I believe most in my Church as well as a my current minister (and myself for that matter)would agree with your explanation of death, sleep and bodily resurrection.
Then, todays Gospel reading :
1 Corinthians12:1-11 includes verse 10, the gift to distinguish spirits. This is exactly the kind of passage that this person in my life refers to support to the idea that there is a useful spiritual world that includes more than just demons.
There are definitely evil spirits, I have always thought they may very well make themselves appear any number of ways ( including people who are familiar) in order to perpetuate deception. This explained, in my mind, the OT ( and NT) prohibitions against people who delve into this world. Not because there is nothing there, but because there is nothing good.
So then, what is 1 Corinthians 12:10 referring to?

 

[DRas]

I did take the time to read all of those passages. Makes me want to get a references for Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic, I have always read death to mean physical death and or eternal separation from God because of sin, depending on the passage and the context of the verse itself. Also I believe most in my Church as well as a my current minister (and myself for that matter)would agree with your explanation of death, sleep and bodily resurrection.
Then, todays Gospel reading :
1 Corinthians12:1-11 includes verse 10, the gift to distinguish spirits. This is exactly the kind of passage that this person in my life refers to support to the idea that there is a useful spiritual world that includes more than just demons.
There are definitely evil spirits, I have always thought they may very well make themselves appear any number of ways ( including people who are familiar) in order to perpetuate deception. This explained, in my mind, the OT ( and NT) prohibitions against people who delve into this world. Not because there is nothing there, but because there is nothing good.
So then, what is 1 Corinthians 12:10 referring to?

 

[DRas]

One thing to remember is that the scriptures do not contradict each other. It is our understanding, or interpretations that contradict the scriptures.
So, never try to break down the foundation. Rather, build on it.

Is it....

• "Truly I tell you..... Today you will be with me in paradise."
• "Truly I tell you today..... You will be with me in paradise."

Build on the foundation.
The Bible says Jesus died, was buried, and was raised to life on the third day. Acts 2:29-32; 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4
Jesus was dead, and could not go anywhere until after being raised up. Acts 1:3; Acts 2:33-36; 1 Corinthians 15:5-8

The idea surrounding the immortality of the soul, or spirit, causes persons to disregard the foundation... saying that the dead are living on in spirit, and they thus decide to read the text "Truly I tell you..... Today you will be with me in paradise."
This contradicts the scriptures.

"Truly I tell you today..... You will be with me in paradise.", does not contradict the scriptures, because the Bible promises a resurrection of the unrighteous, and they will be in paradise. See this post, as well as this, for more details.

I hope I am not overwhelming you, with this.
The Bible has thousands of scriptures, and it takes time to put all of them together.

No, this is not overwhelming at all. I appreciate you taking the time. For me the truth and foundation of faith, as in the scriptures, are not overwhelming, the opposite in fact. The overwhelming part have been the challenges or questions that I have trouble addressing.
.

 

[CoreyD]

I did take the time to read all of those passages.

That's good. That requires diligence.

Makes me want to get a references for Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic,

You are that diligent! Wow.
Why Latin though. The Latin translation isn't any different from an English translation.

I have always read death to mean physical death and or eternal separation from God because of sin, depending on the passage and the context of the verse itself.

Yes, it's important to consider the context.
Death can also be separation from God, though not eternally.
We were all spiritually dead at one point, but it was not eternal. Ephesians 2:1-6; Colossians 2:13

Also I believe most in my Church as well as a my current minister (and myself for that matter)would agree with your explanation of death, sleep and bodily resurrection.

The Bible explains it very simply, doesn't it.
It's not complicated, as many try to make it, causing confusion.

The Bible does not support bodily resurrection though.
At 1 Corinthians 15:35-38
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”
36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;
37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.

Notice two things the Bible makes clear.

1. It is the dead that are raised. Not the body of the dead.
2. God give it - the dead one that is raised up - a body.

So, the one that is asleep in death, is awakened, and God gives that one a body... according to what pleases him.
It can be either a physical body or a spirit body, which is immortal. One is made for heaven, and the other is made for earth. At 1 Corinthians 15:39-41

In the case of the ones who are resurrected to heavenly life - the firstfruit, they can never die, but are immortal spirit beings in the heavens. At 1 Corinthians 15:42-57; Revelation 20:6
Those resurrected to life on earth, can die again... if they are not found in the book of life. John 5:29; Revelation 20:12-15

Then, todays Gospel reading :
1 Corinthians12:1-11 includes verse 10, the gift to distinguish spirits. This is exactly the kind of passage that this person in my life refers to support to the idea that there is a useful spiritual world that includes more than just demons.

The word spirit, is not limited to a few definitions.
Spirit can also refer to

• one's spirit... as in one's disposition, or even ones 'emotional state'. Mark 8:12; Mark 14:38; Acts 6:10; Acts 17:16; Acts 19:21; 1 Corinthians 2:12; 2 Timothy 1:7; Daniel 5:20. Also, one's physical state. Judges 15:19
• the gist, deeper meaning, quality, or state of a text... as in the spirit of the law, inspired word 1 John 4:1, 2, 6; Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2 Timothy 3:16 See Strong's Greek: 2315. θεόπνευστος (theopneustos) -- God-breathed, inspired by God
• etc.

It's important to understand the context, or we could get lost.

There are definitely evil spirits, I have always thought they may very well make themselves appear any number of ways ( including people who are familiar) in order to perpetuate deception. This explained, in my mind, the OT ( and NT) prohibitions against people who delve into this world. Not because there is nothing there, but because there is nothing good.

True.

So then, what is 1 Corinthians 12:10 referring to?

Looking at the context, what is Paul talking about?
Consider too that the word spirit does not always refer to spirit beings.
However, Paul is speaking of things beneficial to the congregation, for their upbuilding.
You could make a new thread with this question though, since it's a different topic to the one at hand.

You seem to be getting the gist of replying to quotes.

 

[DRas]

That's good. That requires diligence.


You are that diligent! Wow.
Why Latin though. The Latin translation isn't any different from an English translation.


Yes, it's important to consider the context.
Death can also be separation from God, though not eternally.
We were all spiritually dead at one point, but it was not eternal. Ephesians 2:1-6; Colossians 2:13


The Bible explains it very simply, doesn't it.
It's not complicated, as many try to make it, causing confusion.

The Bible does not support bodily resurrection though.
At 1 Corinthians 15:35-38
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”
36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;
37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.

Notice two things the Bible makes clear.

1. It is the dead that are raised. Not the body of the dead.
2. God give it - the dead one that is raised up - a body.

So, the one that is asleep in death, is awakened, and God gives that one a body... according to what pleases him.
It can be either a physical body or a spirit body, which is immortal. One is made for heaven, and the other is made for earth. At 1 Corinthians 15:39-41

In the case of the ones who are resurrected to heavenly life - the firstfruit, they can never die, but are immortal spirit beings in the heavens. At 1 Corinthians 15:42-57; Revelation 20:6
Those resurrected to life on earth, can die again... if they are not found in the book of life. John 5:29; Revelation 20:12-15


The word spirit, is not limited to a few definitions.
Spirit can also refer to

• one's spirit... as in one's disposition, or even ones 'emotional state'. Mark 8:12; Mark 14:38; Acts 6:10; Acts 17:16; Acts 19:21; 1 Corinthians 2:12; 2 Timothy 1:7; Daniel 5:20. Also, one's physical state. Judges 15:19
• the gist, deeper meaning, quality, or state of a text... as in the spirit of the law, inspired word 1 John 4:1, 2, 6; Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2 Timothy 3:16 See Strong's Greek: 2315. θεόπνευστος (theopneustos) -- God-breathed, inspired by God
• etc.

It's important to understand the context, or we could get lost.


True.


Looking at the context, what is Paul talking about?
Consider too that the word spirit does not always refer to spirit beings.
However, Paul is speaking of things beneficial to the congregation, for their upbuilding.
You could make a new thread with this question though, since it's a different topic to the one at hand.

You seem to be getting the gist of replying to quotes.

Once again, thank you. Your replies are very helpfull.

 

[Job 33:6]

The Bible does not describe living on after death. It describes the dead as having life again, only through a resurrection - that is, a raising up to life again.
Thus the idea of a world of living dead is not consistent with what the Bible teaches.

Id say that you're understanding is incorrect. The Bible very plainly describes an underworld, sheol. And I don't see why your quote of Ezekiel would go against that.

Ezekiel 18:4-32 NRSV
[4] Know that all lives are mine; the life of the parent as well as the life of the child is mine: it is only the person who sins that shall die. [5] If a man is righteous and does what is lawful and right— [6] if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife or approach a woman during her menstrual period, [7] does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, [8] does not take advance or accrued interest, withholds his hand from iniquity, executes true justice between contending parties, [9] follows my statutes, and is careful to observe my ordinances, acting faithfully—such a one is righteous; he shall surely live, says the Lord God. [10] If he has a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, [11] who does any of these things (though his father does none of them), who eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor's wife, [12] oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, [13] takes advance or accrued interest; shall he then live? He shall not. He has done all these abominable things; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself. [14] But if this man has a son who sees all the sins that his father has done, considers, and does not do likewise, [15] who does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife, [16] does not wrong anyone, exacts no pledge, commits no robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, [17] withholds his hand from iniquity, takes no advance or accrued interest, observes my ordinances, and follows my statutes; he shall not die for his father's iniquity; he shall surely live. [18] As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother, and did what is not good among his people, he dies for his iniquity. [19] Yet you say, “Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?” When the son has done what is lawful and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. [20] The person who sins shall die. A child shall not suffer for the iniquity of a parent, nor a parent suffer for the iniquity of a child; the righteousness of the righteous shall be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be his own. [21] But if the wicked turn away from all their sins that they have committed and keep all my statutes and do what is lawful and right, they shall surely live; they shall not die. [22] None of the transgressions that they have committed shall be remembered against them; for the righteousness that they have done they shall live. [23] Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that they should turn from their ways and live? [24] But when the righteous turn away from their righteousness and commit iniquity and do the same abominable things that the wicked do, shall they live? None of the righteous deeds that they have done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which they are guilty and the sin they have committed, they shall die. [25] Yet you say, “The way of the Lord is unfair.” Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way unfair? Is it not your ways that are unfair? [26] When the righteous turn away from their righteousness and commit iniquity, they shall die for it; for the iniquity that they have committed they shall die. [27] Again, when the wicked turn away from the wickedness they have committed and do what is lawful and right, they shall save their life. [28] Because they considered and turned away from all the transgressions that they had committed, they shall surely live; they shall not die. [29] Yet the house of Israel says, “The way of the Lord is unfair.” O house of Israel, are my ways unfair? Is it not your ways that are unfair? [30] Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, all of you according to your ways, says the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions; otherwise iniquity will be your ruin. [31] Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? [32] For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, says the Lord God. Turn, then, and live.

I think that it's pretty clear, this is about an impending judgement. It's not about the question of whether or not there is an afterlife.

It's addressing the question of if the generation today my be impacted by the past generation. And that judgment is not based on what ones parents have done, rather it's about what the Isrealites themselves have done. It just doesn't really have anything to do with sheol.

 

[Job 33:6]

1 Samuel 28:3-15 NRSV
[3] Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. Saul had expelled the mediums and the wizards from the land. [4] The Philistines assembled, and came and encamped at Shunem. Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa. [5] When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. [6] When Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, not by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. [7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, so that I may go to her and inquire of her.” His servants said to him, “There is a medium at Endor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes and went there, he and two men with him. They came to the woman by night. And he said, “Consult a spirit for me, and bring up for me the one whom I name to you.” [9] The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the wizards from the land. Why then are you laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?” [10] But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” [11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He answered, “Bring up Samuel for me.” [12] When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” [13] The king said to her, “Have no fear; what do you see?” The woman said to Saul, “I see a divine being coming up out of the ground.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” She said, “An old man is coming up; he is wrapped in a robe.” So Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; so I have summoned you to tell me what I should do.”

Job 10:20-22 NRSV
[20] Are not the days of my life few? Let me alone, that I may find a little comfort [21] before I go, never to return, to the land of gloom and deep darkness, [22] the land of gloom and chaos, where light is like darkness.”

Isaiah 14:9-15 NRSV
[9] Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come; it rouses the shades to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations. [10] All of them will speak and say to you: “You too have become as weak as we! You have become like us!” [11] Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, and the sound of your harps; maggots are the bed beneath you, and worms are your covering. [12] How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! [13] You said in your heart, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; [14] I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.” [15] But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.

Ezekiel 32:17-32 NRSV
[17] In the twelfth year, in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me: [18] Mortal, wail over the hordes of Egypt, and send them down, with Egypt and the daughters of majestic nations, to the world below, with those who go down to the Pit. [19] “Whom do you surpass in beauty? Go down! Be laid to rest with the uncircumcised!” [20] They shall fall among those who are killed by the sword. Egypt has been handed over to the sword; carry away both it and its hordes. [21] The mighty chiefs shall speak of them, with their helpers, out of the midst of Sheol: “They have come down, they lie still, the uncircumcised, killed by the sword.”

Jonah 2:2-6 NIV
[2] He said: “In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help, and you listened to my cry. [3] You hurled me into the depths, into the very heart of the seas, and the currents swirled about me; all your waves and breakers swept over me. [4] I said, ‘I have been banished from your sight; yet I will look again toward your holy temple.’ [5] The engulfing waters threatened me, the deep surrounded me; seaweed was wrapped around my head. [6] To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. But you, Lord my God, brought my life up from the pit.

Numbers 16:31-34 NIV
[31] As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart [32] and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, and all those associated with Korah, together with their possessions. [33] They went down alive into the realm of the dead, with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. [34] At their cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, “The earth is going to swallow us too!”

Psalms 88:3-12 NRSV
[3] For my soul is full of troubles, and my life draws near to Sheol. [4] I am counted among those who go down to the Pit; I am like those who have no help, [5] like those forsaken among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, like those whom you remember no more, for they are cut off from your hand. [6] You have put me in the depths of the Pit, in the regions dark and deep. [7] Your wrath lies heavy upon me, and you overwhelm me with all your waves. Selah [8] You have caused my companions to shun me; you have made me a thing of horror to them. I am shut in so that I cannot escape; [9] my eye grows dim through sorrow. Every day I call on you, O Lord; I spread out my hands to you. [10] Do you work wonders for the dead? Do the shades rise up to praise you? Selah [11] Is your steadfast love declared in the grave, or your faithfulness in Abaddon? [12] Are your wonders known in the darkness, or your saving help in the land of forgetfulness?

It's pretty clear that the Bible describes an underworld and I'm sorry if you have a problem with the Bible @CoreyD. Yes, these spirits may be later destroyed or ressurected. But it is still a fact of scripture that a spiritual afterlife is described, living on after death, albeit typically in what is understood to be poetry.

I am not sure why these passages are complicated for you. They're pretty plain and straightforward. But if you have some questions that you'd like to wrestle with, feel free to ask. Otherwise, only you can resolve these theological conflicts that you're facing with what scripture says.