Biblical Cosmology

[tharkun73]

The Mazzaroth = The Constellations.

In the context of the Bible, constellations are groups of stars that form recognizable patterns in the night sky. These celestial formations have been observed and named by various cultures throughout history, including those in the ancient Near East. The Bible makes several references to constellations, often highlighting God's sovereignty and creative power over the heavens.

1. Job 9:9 : "He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, of the Pleiades and the constellations of the south." This verse acknowledges God's creation of specific constellations, emphasizing His authority over the universe. The "Bear" likely refers to the constellation Ursa Major, while "Orion" and "Pleiades" are well-known constellations visible in the night sky.

2. Job 38:31-32 : "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades or loosen the belt of Orion? Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?" Here, God challenges Job, illustrating His unmatched power and wisdom in controlling the cosmos. The rhetorical questions underscore human limitations compared to divine omnipotence.

3. Isaiah 13:10 : "For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light; the rising sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light." This prophetic imagery describes a time of divine judgment, where celestial bodies, including constellations, are affected.

The same constellations have been seen from the beginning when God created the earth, they haven't changed nor will they ever not until Jesus's return.

How would this be possible on a rotating globe ?

Why wouldn't it be possible on a rotating globe?

 

[Apple Sky]

Why wouldn't it be possible on a rotating globe?

Think about it, if the earth is rotating how have the stars managed to remain in their order of procession since the beginning especially the star Polaris ?

 

[tharkun73]

Think about it, if the earth is rotating how have the stars managed to remain in their order of procession since the beginning especially the star Polaris ?

I have thought about it - how much should we expect them to have moved on a globe earth?

 

[Apple Sky]

I have thought about it - how much should we expect them to have moved on a globe earth?

It is the sun, moon & the stars that rotate above a stationary earth.

 

[tharkun73]

It is the sun, moon & the stars that rotate above a stationary earth.

You didn't answer my question - given the globe model how much should we expect to see the stars move in relation to each other? If you don't know how much the stars should move with a globe model, how can you say that it is a disproof of the globe?

 

[Apple Sky]

You didn't answer my question - given the globe model how much should we expect to see the stars move in relation to each other? If you don't know how much the stars should move with a globe model, how can you say that it is a disproof of the globe?

If the earth is rotating then it would be impossible for the stars to be so precise & consistent with their constellations.

 

[tharkun73]

If the earth is rotating then it would be impossible for the stars to be so precise & consistent with their constellations.

Based on what data? You're making claims with nothing to back them up other than a flat-earth belief, or a false picture of what the globe model says.

 

[Apple Sky]

Based on what data? You're making claims with nothing to back them up other than a flat-earth belief, or a false picture of what the globe model says.

Please feel free to dispute my claim & replace it with the scientific version on how the Mazzaroth/Constellations have kept their order from the beginning of time.

 

[tharkun73]

Please feel free to dispute my claim & replace it with the scientific version on how the Mazzaroth/Constellations have kept their order from the beginning of time.

You've made the claim that the problem is with the globe model, the burden of proof is on you to show using the globe model that the apparent lack of motion is a problem for the model.

 

[Apple Sky]

You've made the claim that the problem is with the globe model,

And you have made the claim that what I said is false, so why is my Claim false ? All's I am asking for is a reason why ??

 

[Apple Sky]

The pole star was fixed by God before the creation of Adam - there it is now - and there it will remain till the heavens be no more.

 

[tharkun73]

 

[tharkun73]

Scientific evidence that the stars do move relative to each other:

For most stars seen in the sky, the observed proper motions are small and unremarkable. Such stars are often either faint or are significantly distant, have changes of below 0.01″ per year, and do not appear to move appreciably over many millennia. A few do have significant motions, and are usually called high-proper motion stars. Two or more stars which are moving in similar directions, exhibit so-called shared or common proper motion (or cpm.), suggesting they may share similar motion in space (if the distances and radial velocities are also consistent) and thus be gravitationally linked as binary stars or star clusters.


Barnard's Star, showing position every 5 years 1985–2005.

Barnard's Star has the largest proper motion of all stars, moving at 10.3″ yr−1. Large proper motion usually strongly indicates an object is close to the Sun. This is so for Barnard's Star, about 6 light-years away. After the Sun and the Alpha Centauri system, it is the nearest known star. Being a red dwarf with an apparent magnitude of 9.54, it is too faint to see without a telescope or powerful binoculars. Of the stars visible to the naked eye (conservatively limiting unaided visual magnitude to 6.0), 61 Cygni A (magnitude V=5.20) has the highest proper motion at 5.281″ yr−1, discounting Groombridge 1830 (magnitude V=6.42), proper motion: 7.058″ yr−1.[16]

A proper motion of 1 arcsec per year 1 light-year away corresponds to a relative transverse speed of 1.45 km/s. Barnard's Star's transverse speed is 90 km/s and its radial velocity is 111 km/s (perpendicular (at a right, 90° angle), which gives a true or "space" motion of 142 km/s.

 

[tharkun73]

More stars showing motion:

This is a list of [some] high-proper motion stars. There is no specific velocity that is considered high, but the proper motion article notes that the majority of stars have a proper motion of 0.01 arc-seconds per year. Note that the closer a star is to earth, the faster it will appear to travel in arc-seconds per year for a given "real" velocity; therefore, the PM values here are apparent velocities.

Included in the table is also the radial motion (RM) if available. In cases where the numerical PM value is not available in a simple arc-seconds per year form, "high" has been used in the table; for instance, in the case of 5 Cancri, "high" is used because the values given in the available article do not resolve the right ascension and declination proper motions into a single numerical value.

'PM' = Proper Motion; 'RM' = Radial Motion

Star article	Other name	PM (arc sec/yr)	RM (km/s)	citations
3 Andromedae		0.236	-35	PM;[1] RM[2]
5 Andromedae		0.201	-2.6	PM;[1] RM[3]
5 Cancri		"high"	+10	PM;[4] RM[5]
6 Andromedae		0.272	-32.4	PM;[1] RM[3]
15 Delphini		"high"	-4.1	PM;[G 1] RM[2]
23 Andromedae		0.191	-27	PM;[1] RM[6]
23 Leonis Minoris		"high"	-16	PM;[G 2] RM[citation needed]
25 Cancri		0.245	+38	PM;[1] RM[G 3]
32 Boötis		0.194	-23	PM;[1] RM[3]
35 Pegasi		0.318	+54	PM;[1] RM[7]
37 Librae		"high"	+49	PM;[4] RM[8]
38 Aurigae		0.181	+34	PM;[1] RM[3]
39 Arietis	Lilii Borea	"high"		Name;[9] PM[4]
39 Aurigae		0.151	+34	PM;[1] RM[6]
40 Eridani	Omicron2 Eridani	4.088	-42.47	Name;[10] PM;[10] RM[G 4]
40 Leonis Minoris		"variable"	+10	PM;[11] RM[2]
41 Andromedae		0.171	+10	PM;[1] RM[6]
58 Andromedae		0.159	+8	PM;[1] RM[3]
61 Cygni	61 Cygni A	5.281	-65.97	PM;[10] RM[G 5]
61 Cygni	61 Cygni B	5.172	-64.59	PM;[10] RM[G 6]
68 Aquarii		"high"	+24.5	PM;[G 7] RM[3]
83 Cancri		0.185	-15	PM;[1] RM[3]
89 Leonis		"high"	+4.8	PM;[G 8] RM[12]
Alpha Centauri A	Rigil Kentaurus	3.710	-21.4	Name;[13] PM;[10] RM[14]
Alpha Centauri B	Tollman	3.724	-18.6	Name;[13] PM;[10] RM[14]
Barnard's Star		10.358	-110	PM;[10] RM[G 9]
Delta Phoenicis		"high"	-7	PM;[4] RM[2]
Epsilon Indi	ε Ind A	4.704	-40.43	PM;[10] RM[G 10]
Eta Eridani	Azha	"high"	-20.32	Name;[9] PM;[15] RM[citation needed]
Gliese 1	CD-37 15492	6.1	+23.6	Name;[10] PM;[10][16] RM[17]
Gliese 412		4.511	+64.9	PM;[10] RM[18]
Gliese 514		"high"	+14.606	PM;[G 11] RM[19]
Gliese 809		0.77	-17.3	PM;[S 1] RM[20]
Groombridge 1830	Argelander's Star	7.058	-98	Name;[21] PM;[10] RM[18]

 

[tharkun73]

Groombridge 1830	Argelander's Star	7.058	-98	Name;[21] PM;[10] RM[18]
HD 26755		"high"	-38	PM;[G 12] RM[2]
HD 29559		"high"	+24.2	PM;[G 13] RM[2]
HD 30432		"high"	-6	PM;[G 14] RM[2]
HD 30442		"high"	-37	PM;[G 15] RM[7]
HD 32820		"high"	+29.8	PM;[G 16] RM[22]
HD 36187		"high"	+50	PM;[G 17] RM[23]
HD 39194		"high"	+13.9	PM;[G 18] RM[2]
HD 43899		"high"	+66.5	PM;[G 19] RM[2]
HD 46568		"high"	+39	PM;[G 20] RM[2]
HD 46815		"high"	+32.2	PM;[G 21] RM[2]
HD 73468		"high"	-26.5	PM;[G 22] RM[2]
HD 83332		"high"	+30	PM;[G 23] RM[17]
HD 85725		"high"	+61.6	PM;[G 24] RM[20]
HD 88218		"high"	+36.7	PM;[G 25] RM[20]
HD 90132		"high"	+17	PM;[G 26] RM[2]
HD 91324		"high"	+21	PM;[G 27] RM[G 27]
HD 99015		"high"	-5.9	PM;[G 28] RM[2]
HD 101917		"high"	+33	PM;[G 29] RM[2]
HD 117566		"high"	+14	PM;[G 30] RM[24]
HD 134439 and HD 134440	HIP 74234 and HIP 74235	3.681	+310 (approx)	Name;[10] PM;[10] RM[citation needed]
HD 138289		"high"	+13.1	PM;[G 31] RM[18]
HD 140283	Methuselah star	"high"	−169	Name;[25] PM;[4] RM[S 2]
HD 154556		"high"	-24	PM;[G 32] RM[2]
HD 154972		"high"	-3.1	PM;[G 33] RM[2]
HD 164712		"high"	+14.8	PM;[G 34] RM[2]
HD 167096		"high"	-27	PM;[G 35] RM[23]
HD 168592		"high"	+18	PM;[G 36] RM[2]
HD 174474		"high"	-44	PM;[G 37] RM[2]
HD 176664		"high"	-60	PM;[G 38] RM[2]
HD 178845		"high"	-25	PM;[G 39] RM[2][G 40]
HD 182893		"high"	-27	PM;[G 41] RM[2]
HD 191806		"high"	-15.28	PM;[G 42] RM[citation needed]
HD 192886		"high"	-29.6	PM;[G 43] RM[2]
HD 194012		"high"	4.5	PM;[G 44] RM[2]
HD 194953		"high"	-28	PM;[G 45] RM[2]
HD 197630		"high"	-30	PM;[G 46] RM[citation needed]
HD 198716		"high"	+20	PM;[G 47] RM[2]
HD 200779		0.569	-67	PM;[G 48][S 3] RM[26]
HD 201772		"high"	-41	PM;[G 49] RM[2]
HD 204018		"high"	+18.3	PM;[G 50] RM[2]
HD 208741		"high"	+8	PM;[G 51] RM[2]
HD 210056		"high"	+24	PM;[G 52] RM[2]
HR 8526		"high"	+15	PM;[G 53] RM[2][14]

 

[tharkun73]

Kapteyn's Star		8.671	+245	PM;[10] RM[G 54]
Lacaille 8760	Gliese 825	3.455	+20.7	Name;[27] PM;[10] RM[28]
Lacaille 9352		6.896	+9.7	PM;[10] RM[28]
Lalande 21185		4.802	-85.6	PM;[10] RM[29]
LP 40-365		"high"	+498	PM;[30] RM[30]
Luyten's Star		3.738	17.35	PM;[10] RM[G 55]
Mu Cassiopeiae	Al Marfik	3.777	-98	Name;[31] PM;[4][10] RM[32]
Omicron Columbae		"high"		PM[4]
Proxima Centauri		3.853	-22.2	PM;[10][33] RM[34]
Q Scorpii		"high"	-49	PM;[G 56] RM[2]
SSSPM J1549-3544		"high"		PM[G 57]
Teegarden's Star		5	+68.3	PM[S 4][better source needed]; RM[35]
Upsilon Octantis		"high"	+19	PM;[G 58] RM[23]
Upsilon Pegasi	Alkarab	"high"	-8.6	Name;[9] PM;[4] RM[36]
V718 Coronae Australis		"high"	+28.5	PM;[G 59] RM[2]
V744 Centauri		0.05 (minim)		PM[37]