Is predestination about the destination or about the path to it?

[Xeno.of.athens]

Grammar.

You might start with its name: biblical truth.

If it is not biblical, it is not "biblical" truth.

Biblical truth may not disagree with it but, by definition, it is not "Biblical" truth.

Book chapter and verse for "biblical truth" - that phrase seems to be an invented one, not in the bible anywhere I've seen.

 

[Clare73]

Book chapter and verse for "biblical truth" - that phrase seems to be an invented one, not in the bible anywhere I've seen.

"God is sovereign" is likewise not in the Bible.

Didn't get the phrase "God is sovereign," didn't get the phrase "God is Triune," and didn't get the phrase "biblical truth" from the Bible.
But it can be shown where they are presented.

"Biblical truth" is a description of the only truth that I accept as authoritative in matters of faith and doctrine.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

"God is sovereign" is likewise not in the Bible.

Didn't get the phrase "God is sovereign," didn't get the phrase "God is Triune," and didn't get the phrase "biblical truth" from the Bible.
But it can be shown where they are presented.

"Biblical truth" is a description of the only truth that I accept as authoritative in matters of faith and doctrine.

Show it to be there then, back these claims with evidence.

 

[jonojim1337]

No, that is just your theology. Give book, chapter, and verse that teaches that the bible is the only authority for "biblical truth".

Perhaps what he means to say is that the Scripture is here to stay even if the man doesn't. The Scripture doesn't need the man. The man needs the Scripture.

 

[Clare73]

Show it to be there then, back these claims with evidence.

Are you asking me to show that the sovereignty of God and the Trinity are in the Bible?

I am not claiming that "biblical truth" is a phrase from the Bible, just as "God is sovereign" is not a phrase from the Bible.
But both are presented in the Bible.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Are you asking me to show that the sovereignty of God and the Trinity are in the Bible?

Not in any way. Your extraordinary claim about "biblical truth" is what lacks evidence so far.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Perhaps what he means to say is that the Scripture is here to stay even if the man doesn't. The Scripture doesn't need the man. The man needs the Scripture.

The printed form of holy scripture needs mankind to print it.

 

[jonojim1337]

Are you asking me to show that the sovereignty of God and the Trinity are in the Bible?

Wow it can mean so many different things. Let me clarify then some Biblical truths no one can argue against:

The Only Way To God Is Accepting The Sacrifice Of His Son

Anyone who says a word against that is condemned already.

Heavy truth.

 

[Clare73]

Show it to be there then, back these caims with evidence.

The authority for Scripture is found in 2 Tim 3:16.

That Scripture (2 Tim 3:16) is true is a matter of faith.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The authority for Scripture is found in 2 Tim 3:16.

That Scripture (2 Tim 3:16) is true is a matter of faith.

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
(2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB)

This passage speaks not of "biblical truth" but of the utility of holy scripture. Its uses? Teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness. Comparable to school textbooks, it lays the foundation for profound truths to be further explored and understood under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The outcome? That the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Holy scripture prepares one for service. It's time for practical application, for all to reach the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, growing into maturity, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

 

[jonojim1337]

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
(2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB)

This passage speaks not of "biblical truth" but of the utility of holy scripture. Its uses? Teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness. Comparable to school textbooks, it lays the foundation for profound truths to be further explored and understood under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The outcome? That the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Holy scripture prepares one for service. It's time for practical application, for all to reach the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, growing into maturity, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

The teaching is ultimately that fate is not in our hands. Funny isn't it.

 

[Clare73]

All Scripture is inspired by God (2 Tim 3:16).

All Scripture is God-breathed (theopneustos). . .biblical truth is God's truth.
Its truth and authority comes from its Author.
It is the only truth that I accept as authoritative for faith and doctrine.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

All Scripture is God-breathed (theopneustos). . .biblical truth is God's truth.
Its truth and authority comes from its Author.
It is the only truth that I accept as authoritative for faith and doctrine.

It isn't really the only "truth" that you accept because you accept the table of contents of your bible that that came from men like Martin Luther. Besides, the table of contents was predestined by God to pre-date Martin Luther by well over a thousand years. The table of contents ought to look like this:

This complete list is called the canon of Scripture. It includes 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if we count Jeremiah and Lamentations as one) and 27 for the New.91​

​

The Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Baruch, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zachariah and Malachi.​

​

The New Testament: the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the Acts of the Apostles, the Letters of St. Paul to the Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, the Letter to the Hebrews, the Letters of James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1, 2 and 3 John, and Jude, and Revelation (the Apocalypse).​

 

[Clare73]

It isn't really the only "truth" that you accept because you accept the table of contents of your bible

I don't have saving faith in the Table of Contents of my Bible.

I hope you don't either. . .

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I don't have saving faith in the Table of Contents of my Bible.

I hope you don't either. . .

I have no faith in the table of contents of your bible because I know it is deficient.

 

[Clare73]

I have no faith in the table of contents of your bible because I know it is deficient.

So your faith is in the Table of Contents of your Bible.

Interesting. . .

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So your faith is in the Table of Contents of your Bible.

Interesting. . .

I really wish you'd stop paraphrasing what I write because what you've done above is arrive at pretty much the opposite of what I said.

 

[jonojim1337]

There are minor variations between the Bibles. It is not wrong to call God LORD but that is not his Name though.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The debate between Protestants regarding predestination has persisted for nearly five centuries, with neither side conceding. Each believes they have scriptural backing. This dichotomy likely extends to Christian forums, where some argue for free will while others argue for the bondage of the will, each supported by numerous scriptural verses and interpretations. The question remains: Is it the final destination that is predestined, leaving the path open to free will choices, or is the path itself predestined, allowing no deviation by free will until the final destination is reached?

In order to have freewill you'd have to rule out both God and the devil from the will of mankind, neither position of which is scripturally tenable

Which leaves us with predestination. Even double predestination.

 

[jonojim1337]

In order to have freewill you'd have to rule out both God and the devil from the will of mankind, neither position of which is scripturally tenable

Which leaves us with predestination. Even double predestination.

I think you are all missing the point. Paul said, should the clay talk back to the potter? No, it shouldn't. That means God's judgements are just in having shaped us the way we are.