Is loving God a work?

[Jo555]

From what you have written, you believe that God makes us love Him.
I believe that He doesn't force anyone to love Him.
Those that have chosen to love Him, will indeed grow in grace and knowledge, and in the revelation of His love.

There is a difference between being forced to love someone, like instilling fear which can only act like I love, but not reach the heart, and loving them because you know them intimately and are captivated by them.

The bible describes us as slaves to either our carnal nature due to lust, or willing love slaves of Christ because the revelation of his love and goodness and such.

When it speaks of liberty it speaks of of in context with liberation from carnal nature.

 

[Jo555]

There is a difference between being forced to love someone, like instilling fear which can only act like I love, but not reach the heart, and loving them because you know them intimately and are captivated by them.

The bible describes us as slaves to either our carnal nature due to lust, or willing love slaves of Christ because the revelation of his love and goodness and such.

When it speaks of liberty it speaks of of in context with liberation from carnal nature.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp. I've been fellowshipping with others on another thread with believers and unbelievers and it's like on almost 200 pages. I finally pulled out and just return to have some fun because there is only so much we as humans can do.

 

[fhansen]

This all sprang from the OP..."Is loving God a work?"
Your POV seems to be that it is not, as God does all the work.
My POV, is that we must love God in order to be saved on the day of judgment...making our love a "work" that must be done to be saved.
Growing in the revelation of that is not an issue.
All that God has done for me, and for mankind, has led me to love Him: but He didn't force me to love Him.

The only works that Paul wrote against, were the works of the Law. i.e. circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, priesthoods, etc.

I think you're both right. God intiates; love comes from Him and then we love Him because He first loved us. And yet that love is also a choice because, as Jo555 said, we can close our hearts to it, implying that we can also open our hearts to it, allowing Him and His love in. In any case, the three virtues of faith, hope, and love have been historically understood to be both supernatural gifts of grace-and human choices. to accept and act upon those gifts. And then there's Rom 5:5
"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us."

 

[RDKirk]

This all sprang from the OP..."Is loving God a work?"
Your POV seems to be that it is not, as God does all the work.
My POV, is that we must love God in order to be saved on the day of judgment...making our love a "work" that must be done to be saved.
Growing in the revelation of that is not an issue.
All that God has done for me, and for mankind, has led me to love Him: but He didn't force me to love Him.

The only works that Paul wrote against, were the works of the Law. i.e. circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, priesthoods, etc.

No, as Paul discussed it in Romans, "work" is whatever people do with the intent or expectation of obligating God to their salvation. "The worker deserves his wage." If a person were to say, "Lord, didn't I preach the Gospel for you?" with the idea that God is thus obligated to save him, that would be "work."

But Paul says that whatever we do with the intent or expectation (even if it's something specified in the Law) of gaining salvation as though it were a fair wage, the true fair wage is still death.

And Paul explicitly defines faith and belief as not work. (Romans 4:4).

Paul also, however, discusses "good work" in Ephesians, which is obedience in performing the tasks God has prepared in advance for those who love Him. "Good work" does not deserve salvation, good work is an obligation of salvation.

 

[Jo555]

I know it is a hard concept to grasp. I've been fellowshipping with others on another thread with believers and unbelievers and it's like on almost 200 pages. I finally pulled out and just return to have some fun because there is only so much we as humans can do.

Sorry, i should have mentioned that the topic in question was whether we have the ability to choose without any outside influence, which I see as not the case, and the original poster in the other thread agreed. This can be a hard concept to grasp from believers and unbelievers alike. Many people having a tough time with that because they feel just like you, that it means we are robots, but that isn't the case. We are influenced, but still make choices by what we put our faith in and love the most.



There is always something influencing our choices, whether love derived from life in Christ. I have another link that may help some. Helps with time to just post a link because I've taken the time already to lay it out as best i can.

Those links will be coming next.

And so much great stuff here by those that have done there homework, but none of us can see these things on our own and none of us has a full pic yet, but see in part ... So continue to take time out alone with God in prayerful study as He wants us to hear from Him foremost, even as He can use others to jump start that

 

[Jo555]

Sorry, i should have mentioned that the topic in question was whether we have the ability to choose without any outside influence, which I see as not the case, and the original poster in the other thread agreed. This can be a hard concept to grasp from believers and unbelievers alike. Many people having a tough time with that because they feel just like you, that it means we are robots, but that isn't the case. We are influenced, but still make choices by what we put our faith in and love the most.



There is always something influencing our choices, whether love derived from life in Christ. I have another link that may help some. Helps with time to just post a link because I've taken the time already to lay it out as best i can.

Those links will be coming next.

And so much great stuff here by those that have done there homework, but none of us can see these things on our own and none of us has a full pic yet, but see in part ... So continue to take time out alone with God in prayerful study as He wants us to hear from Him foremost, even as He can use others to jump start that.

Kinda going off topic now so I'll just post the links that I feel may help, but do the prayerful study yourself as we are all learning and growing.

 

[Jo555]

Kinda going off topic now so I'll just post the links that I feel may help, but do the prayerful study yourself as we are all learning and growing.

The Love of God and Change

Wrote this awhile ago. Hope to write on it again. In this version i broke it down in tiny bits. The Love of God and Change www.jrbell.com / Photo used with permission It may serve us well to take an inventory of our lives on a regular...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Jo555]

The Love of God and Change

Wrote this awhile ago. Hope to write on it again. In this version i broke it down in tiny bits. The Love of God and Change www.jrbell.com / Photo used with permission It may serve us well to take an inventory of our lives on a regular...

www.christianforums.com

One more:

Godly Sorrow and Repentance

Godly Sorrow and Repentance (A look into relational change over change focused on self) Godly sorrow focuses on God. Worldly sorrow says what's going to happen to me. You understand? I couldn't get free from that sin because I was...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Guojing]

Jesus says it is not difficult to obey His Commandments. Those stuck in a false teaching, a false gospel, cannot understand how joyful, peaceful, and right it is to obey Jesus because they are told/taught they cannot (ie. they believe that false gospel).

Do you think its easy to love your spouse, your parents?

 

[Jo555]

Do you think its easy to love your spouse, your parents?

It's really that simple. Isn't it?

Life itself testifies to the properties the bible speaks of. Even Jesus used nature to relate these things, yet we cannot know God apart from Him.

I love the simplicity of that.

 

[Aaron112]

Do you think its easy to love your spouse, your parents?

YES

 

[Guojing]

YES

So you won't consider loving them a "work"?

 

[Aaron112]

So you won't consider loving them a "work"?

Doesn't matter.

 

[Guojing]

Doesn't matter.

that was the question asked in this thread.

 

[Aaron112]

that was the question asked in this thread.

There's a lot of error present in this thread, as likewise most all threads on the internet.

 

[2404]

Agape love is an attribute of God so if you have that you have an attribute of God residing in you. If you have a part of God residing in you then revelation follows and faith is a revelation. That love also casts out fear because you know who you are, where you came from and where you are destined for. That love is not of this world which is governed by circumstance but it is eternal so it can not fail or be changed for God does not change His mind, He is omniscient.
Agape love and faith are pretty much synonymous.
You can't work yourself into it or earn it, it is a revelation to the Christian.

 

[RDKirk]

None of this would be an issue except for Paul's exposition in Romans about "work," and Paul defined what he meant by "work."

What is the background reason for arguing that love, or faith, or belief is a work?

What point are you folk trying to make?

 

[Hoping2]

No, as Paul discussed it in Romans, "work" is whatever people do with the intent or expectation of obligating God to their salvation. "The worker deserves his wage." If a person were to say, "Lord, didn't I preach the Gospel for you?" with the idea that God is thus obligated to save him, that would be "work."

The only works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law.

But Paul says that whatever we do with the intent or expectation (even if it's something specified in the Law) of gaining salvation as though it were a fair wage, the true fair wage is still death.

Where does he say that ?

And Paul explicitly defines faith and belief as not work. (Romans 4:4).

Isn't 'believing' done to garner salvation ?
So too is refusing to succumb to temptations.

Paul also, however, discusses "good work" in Ephesians, which is obedience in performing the tasks God has prepared in advance for those who love Him. "Good work" does not deserve salvation, good work is an obligation of salvation.

Will telling lies cause your being tossed into the lake of fire ?
Will refusing the temptation to tell lies be judged as a work for salvation ?
Doesn't your POV make resisting temptation anathema ?

 

[Jo555]

The only works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law.

Where does he say that ?

Isn't 'believing' done to garner salvation ?
So too is refusing to succumb to temptations.

Will telling lies cause your being tossed into the lake of fire ?
Will refusing the temptation to tell lies be judged as a work for salvation ?
Doesn't your POV make resisting temptation anathema ?

Can you try and just state what you mean by these questions. Anyone who has faith and loves God does not live in sin. That is not who they are. They may find a weak moment of temptation, but that is something they did, not who they are.

Do you fear God? It's good to have a reverence for God, but do you live in fear of judgement and lake of fire?

Eohesians 2:
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[Jo555]

Can you try and just state what you mean by these questions. Anyone who has faith and loves God does not live in sin. That is not who they are. They may find a weak moment of temptation, but that is something they did, not who they are.

Do you fear God? It's good to have a reverence for God, but do you live in fear of judgement and lake of fire?

Eohesians 2:
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Titus 3:
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.