I'm circumcised: Christ shall profit me nothing?

[justbyfaith]

Galatians 5:2-4 seems to be saying to me that Christ shall profit me nothing if I am circumcised. I keep reading these verses over and over and it seems that the scripture is declaring that because I am circumcised, all the benefits of the New Testament don't apply to me.

Of course, there are no uncircumcised Jews, so this would seem to be cutting out God's chosen people from His plan of grace and salvation in Christ. I keep reading, If ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

It might also be cutting out certain Gentiles who have gone deeper with the Lord to be circumcised of heart. See Romans 2:26,28-29, Colossians 2:11.

But again, there are no uncircumcised Jews, so Romans 1:16 tells me that someone who is circumcised can indeed partake of salvation. I don't believe it is saying he can partake of salvation apart from Christ profiting him something.

So, I thought about it and as I was thinking my eyes fell on Galatians 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Because I was also focusing on Galatians 5:3, For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

And in Galatians 5:6 and 6:15, we find that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creature, and faith which worketh by love.

But I continued to be stuck on Galatians 5:2-4.

Galatians 5:18 brought the closure I needed. If I am led of the Spirit, I am not under the law, that is, I am not condemned for not fully keeping it. But I will walk in love which is the fulfilling of the law. Of course, 1 John 5:2-3 tells us that the love of God in me towards His children means that I will keep His commandments. It raises the question, Is God the God only of the New Testament? Or is He also the God of the Old? What commandments are we to keep? Doesn't love mean that we keep the Old Testament law if we are circumcised of heart or in the physical?

 

[mukk_in]

Galatians 5:2-4 seems to be saying to me that Christ shall profit me nothing if I am circumcised. I keep reading these verses over and over and it seems that the scripture is declaring that because I am circumcised, all the benefits of the New Testament don't apply to me.

Of course, there are no uncircumcised Jews, so this would seem to be cutting out God's chosen people from His plan of grace and salvation in Christ. I keep reading, If ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

It might also be cutting out certain Gentiles who have gone deeper with the Lord to be circumcised of heart. See Romans 2:26,28-29, Colossians 2:11.

But again, there are no uncircumcised Jews, so Romans 1:16 tells me that a circumcised Jew can indeed partake of salvation. I don't believe it is saying he can partake of salvation apart from Christ profiting him something.

So, I thought about it and as I was thinking my eyes fell on Galatians 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Because I was also focusing on Galatians 5:3, For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

And in Galatians 5:6 and 6:15, we find that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creature, and faith which worketh by love.

But I continued to be stuck on Galatians 5:2-4.

Galatians 5:18 brought the closure I needed. If I am led of the Spirit, I am not under the law, that is, I am not condemned for not fully keeping it. But I will walk in love which is the fulfilling of the law. Of course, 1 John 5:2-3 tells us that the love of God in me towards His children means that I will keep His commandments. It raises the question, Is God the God only of the New Testament? Or is He also the God of the old? What commandments are we to keep? Doesn't love mean that we keep the Old Testament law if we are circumcised of heart or in the physical?

Galatians 6:15 as quoted should answer your question. Both circumcised and uncircumcised are saints in the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes we do keep the old covenant as it has been fulfilled by the new. The Ten commandments have been condensed into two (Matthew 22:35-40). Peace in Christ

 

[FireDragon76]

That verse's context is about Judaizing, the notion that a Christian has to follow Mosaic ritual purity laws. Paul just uses "circumcision" as a shorthand for that, since that is the most prominent aspect.

 

[justbyfaith]

Galatians 6:15 as quoted should answer your question. Both circumcised and uncircumcised are saints in the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes we do keep the old covenant as it has been fulfilled by the new. The Ten commandments have been condensed into two (Matthew 22:35-40). Peace in Christ

I like that. Thank you!

 

[justbyfaith]

That verse's context is about Judaizing, the notion that a Christian has to follow Mosaic ritual purity laws. Paul just uses "circumcision" as a shorthand for that, since that is the most prominent aspect.

 

[justbyfaith]

So if I follow Mosaic ritual purity laws, Christ shall profit me nothing? Why would keeping these place me outside the kingdom?

 

[justbyfaith]

What are these ritual purity laws? If they will place me outside the kingdom, I want to avoid them at all costs!

 

[FireDragon76]

So if I follow Mosaic ritual purity laws, Christ shall profit me nothing? Why would keeping these place me outside the kingdom?

Paul is engaged in rhetoric with people that want gentiles to essentially become Jewish to be saved.

Merely being circumcised in the modern context does not qualify since circumcision in the modern wold is not synonymous with Judaism.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, doesn't the OT law define sin for us (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4)? With this in mind, what should we make of 1 Corinthians 15:34?

 

[Zavia]

You must obey God with your heart and keep it pure for the salvation of the soul.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi, @Zavia, this actually brings up a diffrent subject. We must believe on Jesus Christ for the salvation of the soul, and as the result of faith He will purify our hearts and make us obedient.

 

[Radagast]

So if I follow Mosaic ritual purity laws, Christ shall profit me nothing?

That's exactly what the Epistle to the Galatians says.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul is engaged in rhetoric with people that want gentiles to essentially become Jewish to be saved.

Merely being circumcised in the modern context does not qualify since circumcision in the modern wold is not synonymous with Judaism.

 

[justbyfaith]

That's exactly what the Epistle to the Galatians says.

Again, what should we make of 1 Corinthians 15:34 in light of the fact that the law defines sin (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4)?

 

[Dave-W]

That verse's context is about Judaizing, the notion that a Christian has to follow Mosaic ritual purity laws. Paul just uses "circumcision" as a shorthand for that, since that is the most prominent aspect.

A little more than that.

Circumcision was (still is actually) the FINAL STEP in formal conversion to Judaism. That was why Paul used it.

BTW - unless the circ was done by qualified Jewish "clergy" to welcome you to the Mosaic and Abrahamic covenants, then it has no more spiritual significance than any other surgical procedure.

 

[Radagast]

Again, what should we make of 1 Corinthians 15:34 in light of the fact that the law defines sin (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4)?

"Sin not" does not mean "follow the Mosaic ritual purity laws."

 

[Dave-W]

So if I follow Mosaic ritual purity laws, Christ shall profit me nothing? Why would keeping these place me outside the kingdom?

That all depends on WHY you keep them.

If it is to earn or keep salvation, sorry; that just does not work. OTOH, if you do that because you feel the Lord leading YOU (and not everyone else) to do so and you can do that as an expression of your LOVE for God, Then you are in fine shape.

 

[Dave-W]

Paul is engaged in rhetoric with people that want gentiles to essentially become Jewish to be saved.

Correct. The position of those people is clearly stated in Acts 15.1: Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

That was formal conversion to Judaism.

Merely being circumcised in the modern context does not qualify since circumcision in the modern wold is not synonymous with Judaism.

Indeed, since it is NOT "according to the custom of Moses."

 

[grasping the after wind]

So if I follow Mosaic ritual purity laws, Christ shall profit me nothing? Why would keeping these place me outside the kingdom?

It wouldn't . It simply would not profit you anything with Christ to keep them. Though as a Christian you gain nothing by keeping them (profit) you also loose nothing by keeping them. The problem for Paul was that there were those that wanted to insist that one could not be a Christian unless they did keep those purity laws.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Galatians 5:2-4 seems to be saying to me that Christ shall profit me nothing if I am circumcised. I keep reading these verses over and over and it seems that the scripture is declaring that because I am circumcised, all the benefits of the New Testament don't apply to me.

Paul makes it clear in verse 4 what he is saying. IF you do not follow all of the law then the law does not benefit you. Roman is based on the reasoning of if A then B if B then C therefore if A then C. Paul gives you a word: "circumcised" then he goes on to explain to you WHAT this word means. You want to use your understanding of the word without giving Paul a chance to explain to you what the word means based on his understanding.

He already explained back in Galations 3:24 that "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ". By circumcision paul is talking about trusting in the law to save you. Rather we should trust in Christ.