How Does Jesus Save?

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, that’s right. Sadly, we can indeed lose our salvation if we lose faith. If we stop trusting in the person and works of Jesus, we reject God’s grace and forfeit the salvation freely given us in Christ. God’s Word is very clear on this, and we can for example think of our Lord’s parable of the sower, wherein He gives us different examples of how people reject Him.

I suspect what you’re reacting to is the tension between Arminianism and Calvinism, but that’s a tension that doesn’t exist in the Lutheran system (nor in the Roman Catholic and Eastern and Oriental Orthodox for that matter, but for very different reasons)

Brother Robert is kind of a stumbling block for me. His heart is with Christ but his theology is dangerous for those who aren’t educated in the scriptures. So I feel compelled to compare his theology to scripture to expose his errors. Regretfully I have a tendency to be too blunt in my posts and I struggle with focusing on conveying my messages to him in a kind manner. I get too frustrated sometimes and it causes me to stumble in being patient and polite with him. I was once where he is in my theology as well and I need to remember that. Sometimes when I read his posts they appear to be attacking to me and it causes me to react in the same manner. In the end we’re both brothers in Christ and I just need to learn to let things roll off me and not get offended. I could use some prayers to help me in that regard.

 

[RobertPate]

Brother Robert is kind of a stumbling block for me. His heart is with Christ but his theology is dangerous for those who aren’t educated in the scriptures. So I feel compelled to compare his theology to scripture to expose his errors. Regretfully I have a tendency to be too blunt in my posts and I struggle with focusing on conveying my messages to him in a kind manner. I get too frustrated sometimes and it causes me to stumble in being patient and polite with him. I was once where he is in my theology as well and I need to remember that. Sometimes when I read his posts they appear to be attacking to me and it causes me to react in the same manner. In the end we’re both brothers in Christ and I just need to learn to let things roll off me and not get offended. I could use some prayers to help me in that regard.

Why are you offended? I try to back up everything that I say with scripture. The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ is offensive to those that are religious. This is basically what I teach. Maybe it is because you are religious. The Judaizers followed Paul everywhere that he went and persecuted him because he offended their law keeping religion. Maybe you are under conviction.

 

[Marumorose]

If Jesus saved us by doing something in us by the Holy Spirit, then there would not have been a need for the incarnation. Jesus could have stayed in heaven and could have sent the Holy Spirit into the world to transform people into his likeness. No life, death and resurrection of Jesus needed. Of course, that would never work because we are not saved by being like Jesus, although many believe that we are.

Jesus saves us, not by doing something in us, but by doing something that is totally and completely outside of us. Paul wrote, "But God commended his love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Our salvation took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born. How does Jesus save us? Jesus saves us by fulfilling all of the demands of God's law. Jesus saves us by atoning for our sins. All that Jesus is, and all that Jesus did, was for our justification and our salvation.

This is why we are saved and justified by faith alone. The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. Before Jesus died on the cross, he said, "It's finished" what he meant by that is that salvation had been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. No one needs to be predestinated, no one needs to be holy. Salvation has been provided for all that do nothing more than call upon his name, Romans 10:13.

But many will say, no, we must be baptized, and others will say, we must keep the commandments, and then the Calvinist will say you must be predestinated. The "We musters" appear to be endless. All that is required of us is that we believe in Jesus, we believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for us, we believe that Jesus atoned for our sins. That's it. Nothing more is required. Salvation is by faith alone, because it is by Christ alone.

Jesus saves us by bringing the Truth into our hearts and teach us about who we are and who God is. Right now we are blind and we are taught a false doctrine and we end up in hell because we DO NOT know the TRUTH of God. May God Bless You

 

[d taylor]

The Egyptian Moses killed was beating a Hebrew slave. God may have viewed it as a lawful killing or perhaps Moses repented of his sin. Either way it’s evident that God was not angry at Moses when He spoke to him at the Burning Bush.

So what your saying in the second paragraph is that we can do whatever we want as long as we believe that Jesus will save us? Is that what you think Jesus taught? If that’s your position then that would mean you don’t actually believe what Jesus said in Revelation 21:8.

A person approaches you and says i have seen you going into a church or i have seen you carrying a Bible.

So they ask you, I want to go to heaven when I die, I want eternal life. What do you tell them.

 

[RobertPate]

Jesus saves us by bringing the Truth into our hearts and teach us about who we are and who God is. Right now we are blind and we are taught a false doctrine and we end up in hell because we DO NOT know the TRUTH of God. May God Bless You

Not all want the truth. Many want religion. Religion is appealing to the flesh because it is about them. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and how he has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Thanks for the blessing, may the Lord also bless you.

 

[d taylor]

Jesus saves us by bringing the Truth into our hearts and teach us about who we are and who God is. Right now we are blind and we are taught a false doctrine and we end up in hell because we DO NOT know the TRUTH of God. May God Bless You

People end up in the lake of fire because they never trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why are you offended? I try to back up everything that I say with scripture. The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ is offensive to those that are religious. This is basically what I teach. Maybe it is because you are religious. The Judaizers followed Paul everywhere that he went and persecuted him because he offended their law keeping religion. Maybe you are under conviction.

Its posts like this that I find offensive because your falsely accusing me of being a Judaiser. Obedience to God is not about salvation or justification it’s about love and respect. A lack of obedience shows a lack of love and respect towards God. Simply acknowledging that Christ does exist and using His sacrifice as an excuse to continue to indulge in sin also shows a lack of love and respect God. This is why faith alone fails to line up with the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. The Bible gives clear examples of people who truly did believe and had actually received the Holy Spirit then later they fall away. Jesus Himself specifically stated that many will fall away but the one who endures to the end will be saved. I can’t convince you of that because you just don’t want to see it and that’s fine. I believe that your heart is truly seeking to serve God so it’s not a stumbling block for you, but what about those who hear your message and it gives them a false notion of salvation? The gospel is intended to bring people to repentance so they can be saved. Many people who don’t know the scriptures hear your message and it tells them that they don’t need to fear God, that all they have to do is believe that Jesus will save them and they will be saved. So these people don’t feel the need to repent because by misunderstanding the gospel they believe they can still live the same life they always have and they won’t go to hell. They never actually become a new creation because they don’t believe they have to walk in the Spirit and that they can just continue in disobedience. That is absolutely not what Jesus and the apostles taught. God chose to use both love and fear to motivate people to repent and believe. Taking away the fear element allows them to feel comfortable and safe when they’re actually doomed to condemnation. It’s been my experience that fear is the stronger of the two motivations because love for God grows in time after we believe not before. People who don’t know God and haven’t received the Holy Spirit can’t love Him, but they can fear Him. The fear of hell was often on my mind before I came to Christ. In my particular case it wasn’t my motivation for coming to Him tho. My motivation was hardships and sorrow in this life and I desperately needed God to help me escape them.

There are a lot of things that we must consider when we’re trying to determine what the apostles taught and how the scriptures were intended to be interpreted. One of those is that we must understand that the gospel must remain consistent throughout the years from the time of the apostles until Christ’s second coming. In order for the gospel to have its intended effect in the world it must remain constant and consistent from day one until the last day. If there’s a gap in the consistency of the gospel teachings then that would mean that the true word of God was not always being taught and during that gap the people who lived in that time would not have access to it. This is another reason why reformed theology doesn’t work because it shows an inconsistency in the teaching of the gospel. People who believe in reformed theology believe that Jesus and the apostles taught it, but shortly after the death of the apostles that teaching was completely lost for 1500 years. I believe that according to Matthew 16:18 God would not allow that to happen. His church must remain intact throughout the entire existence of the world in order to bring the true gospel to all men. That was exactly why Jesus established the church and told them to preach the gospel to all nations. So the church cannot fail to do God’s will. If there’s a 1500 year gap in the true teaching of the gospel then God’s plan to establish a church to preach the gospel to all nations failed. Now that’s not to say that every church must remain intact but there must be a source of the true gospel being taught from beginning to end.

When it comes to determining what the correct interpretation that was intended to preached actually is you have to go back to the beginning. Reading the earliest writings of them men who were actually taught by the apostles and who followed them for years gives us a much more accurate understanding of what they actually taught than trusting men who never actually met them and weren’t born until 1500 years later. You stand a better chance of reading the scriptures yourself and making your own judgement on interpretation than accepting what the reformed theologians taught because we actually have better material and sources than they did. All they had was the scriptures that could be interpreted in numerous different ways. There’s only one truth. Contrary to what many believe, and I’m not referring to you but just people in general, scripture is not something that we are free to read and believe whatever best suit us or whatever we choose to believe. That is not how we arrive at one truth, that leads to numerous false gospels. The way we arrive at one truth is by going back and analyzing the earliest teachings of the church and comparing them with scripture. The 16th century theologians ignored the early church writers because they believed in sola scriptura because they were filled with contempt for the Roman church and rightly so. So they sought to distance themselves from anything that was remotely Catholic not knowing that Roman Catholicism was not apostolic Catholicism. Even today the majority of people don’t know that. It takes some study and so many people just don’t want to be bothered with it. Many people just want a nice easy theology to believe that makes them feel safe and secure that doesn’t impose on their lifestyle and isn’t burdensome. They want someone to tell them what to believe and that’s it. Then after they’ve received that and they have their doctrines in place that’s all they see when they read the scriptures. The problem is these people will always come across certain scriptures that confuse them. They’ll come across verses that contradict their theology and they’re forced to either skip over them or try to interpret them in a manner that is not consistent with the context or results in contradicting what is actually stated or contradictory to other verses. As much as I hate to say it brother, you are notorious for doing this. Hebrews 6:4-6, John 15:1-7, and 2 Timothy 2:12 destroy your theology but you refuse to accept it. It’s not a competition, it’s not a matter of winning or losing, it’s a matter of one truth and determining what that truth is. Our theology must line up with all scripture otherwise it’s incorrect. It’s not ok to believe what we want. The word of God doesn’t teach whatever we want, it teaches the word of God, what He wants.

I don’t think you realize how close to universalism your theology actually is. Universalists teach that everyone will be saved no matter what they do. You teach that everyone will be saved no matter what they do as long as they believe that Jesus paid for their sins. Both teach that obedience to God is irrelevant and unnecessary. Both teach what the serpent said to Eve, “surely you will not die”. I apologize if you find this offensive and it’s not my intention to offend you but let me ask you in all sincere kindness and politeness and brotherly love, isn’t that what you are actually teaching? That we don’t have to obey God as long as we believe that Jesus will save us?

 

[BNR32FAN]

A person approaches you and says i have seen you going into a church or i have seen you carrying a Bible.

So they ask you, I want to go to heaven when I die, I want eternal life. What do you tell them.

There’s a lot entailed in that conversation but I’ll give it a try. You have to believe in Jesus Christ. That He died to pay for your sins. You have to humble yourself to God and turn to Him and away from sin. You have to change your way of life and live to serve God and do what pleases Him. You have to love God and love others and follow the teachings of Jesus and His apostles. You need to study the Bible and the early church writings from the first 3 centuries so you can understand what the apostles actually taught because there’s a lot of false information out there and false doctrines that lead people astray. It’s important to understand that the Bible is the word of God, it’s not a matter of believing whatever we want to believe or what best suits us but believing that God’s word is not subjective. There is only ONE TRUTH to God’s word. So it’s important that we find that truth that God is teaching and not anything else. So many people out there think it’s ok to just believe whatever they want but that’s not true. God’s word doesn’t teach one person one doctrine then turn around and teach another person a complete different and contradictory doctrine. You have to find that one truth to correctly understand what God is trying to teach us. Stay away from reformed theology. Reformed theology was not taught by the apostles it was created in the 16th century and was never taught by any church in the first 1500 years of Christianity. It’s not biblical. If you want to know how the early church interpreted the Bible it’s best to read the early church writings, not the writings of men who lived 1500 years after the scriptures were written. There are several writings from the first century that were written by men who actually followed the apostles and were taught directly by them for years. These men probably received more information from the apostles than we could ever get from the scriptures because they were taught by them for years. They traveled with them, ate with them, lived with them, and talked with them for years and in some cases even decades. So if you want to know what the apostles taught these men are the best source that will help you to understand how to interpret their writings. Most of all just love God and obey Him. Do what your heart tells you to do. Once you come to Christ you will receive the Holy Spirit and He will guide you on how to live your life. The Holy Spirit is like a compass always pointing the way to God. As long as you keep your focus on Him you will not be lost. If you don’t pay attention to Him you will find yourself way off course and if that continues too long you might even find yourself shipwrecked. So it’s important to follow your conscience and if you sin repent and turn back to God. Don’t allow sin or shame to keep you from returning to God. God has forgiven far worse than what you’ve done and no matter what you do, no matter how horrible it was, if you turn to Him and repent and ask Him for forgiveness He will forgive you. No matter how many times you sin, even if it’s the same sin over and over and you keep repenting of the same sin keep on coming to Him with it. Keep on praying and asking Him to help you to overcome temptation. Don’t allow your shame or guilt to keep you from coming back to God because that is a deception from satan. satan doesn’t want you to repent and come to God and anything that causes you to stop coming to Him is a deception from satan. I struggled with this when I first came to Christ. I sinned & failed Him over and over and I felt unworthy and was ashamed and didn’t feel that I deserved to be forgiven and I was right. I am unworthy, I don’t deserve to be forgiven, but that’s not what God wants for us because He loves us. God wants us to come to Him for forgiveness. That’s why He sent Jesus to die on the cross, because He knew that if He didn’t that we would all fail Him and burn in the lake of fire. That’s not what God wants. The Bible says that God wants all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of truth. As long as you keep on coming back to Him you’ll be saved no matter what you do.

 

[d taylor]

There’s a lot entailed in that conversation but I’ll give it a try. You have to believe in Jesus Christ. That He died to pay for your sins. You have to humble yourself to God and turn to Him and away from sin. You have to change your way of life and live to serve God and do what pleases Him. You have to love God and love others and follow the teachings of Jesus and His apostles. You need to study the Bible and the early church writings from the first 3 centuries so you can understand what the apostles actually taught because there’s a lot of false information out there and false doctrines that lead people astray. It’s important to understand that the Bible is the word of God, it’s not a matter of believing whatever we want to believe or what best suits us but believing that God’s word is not subjective. There is only ONE TRUTH to God’s word. So it’s important that we find that truth that God is teaching and not anything else. So many people out there think it’s ok to just believe whatever they want but that’s not true. God’s word doesn’t teach one person one doctrine then turn around and teach another person a complete different and contradictory doctrine. You have to find that one truth to correctly understand what God is trying to teach us. Stay away from reformed theology. Reformed theology was not taught by the apostles it was created in the 16th century and was never taught by any church in the first 1500 years of Christianity. It’s not biblical. If you want to know how the early church interpreted the Bible it’s best to read the early church writings, not the writings of men who lived 1500 years after the scriptures were written. There are several writings from the first century that were written by men who actually followed the apostles and were taught directly by them for years. These men probably received more information from the apostles than we could ever get from the scriptures because they were taught by them for years. They traveled with them, ate with them, lived with them, and talked with them for years and in some cases even decades. So if you want to know what the apostles taught these men are the best source that will help you to understand how to interpret their writings. Most of all just love God and obey Him. Do what your heart tells you to do. Once you come to Christ you will receive the Holy Spirit and He will guide you on how to live your life. The Holy Spirit is like a compass always pointing the way to God. As long as you keep your focus on Him you will not be lost. If you don’t pay attention to Him you will find yourself way off course and if that continues too long you might even find yourself shipwrecked. So it’s important to follow your conscience and if you sin repent and turn back to God. Don’t allow sin or shame to keep you from returning to God. God has forgiven far worse than what you’ve done and no matter what you do, no matter how horrible it was, if you turn to Him and repent and ask Him for forgiveness He will forgive you. No matter how many times you sin, even if it’s the same sin over and over and you keep repenting of the same sin keep on coming to Him with it. Keep on praying and asking Him to help you to overcome temptation. Don’t allow your shame or guilt to keep you from coming back to God because that is a deception from satan. satan doesn’t want you to repent and come to God and anything that causes you to stop coming to Him is a deception from satan. I struggled with this when I first came to Christ. I sinned & failed Him over and over and I felt unworthy and was ashamed and didn’t feel that I deserved to be forgiven and I was right. I am unworthy, I don’t deserve to be forgiven, but that’s not what God wants for us because He loves us. God wants us to come to Him for forgiveness. That’s why He sent Jesus to die on the cross, because He knew that if He didn’t that we would all fail Him and burn in the lake of fire. That’s not what God wants. The Bible says that God wants all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of truth. As long as you keep on coming back to Him you’ll be saved no matter what you do.

I already knew basically your answer and that we believe in two completely different gospels and really two different Jesus's which is really two different God's.

Mine is so powerful He, God can take the most miserable person and heal this sinner and give the sinner God's free gift of Eternal Life by faith only in God's only begotten Son, Jesus.
God needs no help from this person, because The Son has taken away the sin of the world. What that did was render any actions by a person seeking the way back to God obsolete.

Because God only requires a one time act of faith, trust, belief in The Son of God after that moment of faith. God is able to secure this person's free gift of Eternal Life for all of eternity for this person.

And as is stated in The Bible nothing can take this person out from God's hand. Not sin, not satan, demons, fallen angels, not even the person himself, no one means no one.

-----------------------------​

Now for your gospel and your God. This God needs help from the person to eventually earn this God's eternal life.

And your God can not keep the person secure, so your God needs help again from the person, so the person will not lose his eternal life.

Or actually the person may not even have eternal life at all, till he dies. So really this person has to look to himself his whole life to see if he is meeting the requirements your God requires this person to do to earn eternal life. Really never knowing if he loved God enough or obeyed enough or repented enough to eventually have earned heaven/eternal life.


-
I could have answered the question asked (by me) the same way The Gospel of John answers the question. Faith in The promised Messiah, gets a person to heaven and gives them God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[RobertPate]

Its posts like this that I find offensive because your falsely accusing me of being a Judaiser. Obedience to God is not about salvation or justification it’s about love and respect. A lack of obedience shows a lack of love and respect towards God. Simply acknowledging that Christ does exist and using His sacrifice as an excuse to continue to indulge in sin also shows a lack of love and respect God. This is why faith alone fails to line up with the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. The Bible gives clear examples of people who truly did believe and had actually received the Holy Spirit then later they fall away. Jesus Himself specifically stated that many will fall away but the one who endures to the end will be saved. I can’t convince you of that because you just don’t want to see it and that’s fine. I believe that your heart is truly seeking to serve God so it’s not a stumbling block for you, but what about those who hear your message and it gives them a false notion of salvation? The gospel is intended to bring people to repentance so they can be saved. Many people who don’t know the scriptures hear your message and it tells them that they don’t need to fear God, that all they have to do is believe that Jesus will save them and they will be saved. So these people don’t feel the need to repent because by misunderstanding the gospel they believe they can still live the same life they always have and they won’t go to hell. They never actually become a new creation because they don’t believe they have to walk in the Spirit and that they can just continue in disobedience. That is absolutely not what Jesus and the apostles taught. God chose to use both love and fear to motivate people to repent and believe. Taking away the fear element allows them to feel comfortable and safe when they’re actually doomed to condemnation. It’s been my experience that fear is the stronger of the two motivations because love for God grows in time after we believe not before. People who don’t know God and haven’t received the Holy Spirit can’t love Him, but they can fear Him. The fear of hell was often on my mind before I came to Christ. In my particular case it wasn’t my motivation for coming to Him tho. My motivation was hardships and sorrow in this life and I desperately needed God to help me escape them.

There are a lot of things that we must consider when we’re trying to determine what the apostles taught and how the scriptures were intended to be interpreted. One of those is that we must understand that the gospel must remain consistent throughout the years from the time of the apostles until Christ’s second coming. In order for the gospel to have its intended effect in the world it must remain constant and consistent from day one until the last day. If there’s a gap in the consistency of the gospel teachings then that would mean that the true word of God was not always being taught and during that gap the people who lived in that time would not have access to it. This is another reason why reformed theology doesn’t work because it shows an inconsistency in the teaching of the gospel. People who believe in reformed theology believe that Jesus and the apostles taught it, but shortly after the death of the apostles that teaching was completely lost for 1500 years. I believe that according to Matthew 16:18 God would not allow that to happen. His church must remain intact throughout the entire existence of the world in order to bring the true gospel to all men. That was exactly why Jesus established the church and told them to preach the gospel to all nations. So the church cannot fail to do God’s will. If there’s a 1500 year gap in the true teaching of the gospel then God’s plan to establish a church to preach the gospel to all nations failed. Now that’s not to say that every church must remain intact but there must be a source of the true gospel being taught from beginning to end.

When it comes to determining what the correct interpretation that was intended to preached actually is you have to go back to the beginning. Reading the earliest writings of them men who were actually taught by the apostles and who followed them for years gives us a much more accurate understanding of what they actually taught than trusting men who never actually met them and weren’t born until 1500 years later. You stand a better chance of reading the scriptures yourself and making your own judgement on interpretation than accepting what the reformed theologians taught because we actually have better material and sources than they did. All they had was the scriptures that could be interpreted in numerous different ways. There’s only one truth. Contrary to what many believe, and I’m not referring to you but just people in general, scripture is not something that we are free to read and believe whatever best suit us or whatever we choose to believe. That is not how we arrive at one truth, that leads to numerous false gospels. The way we arrive at one truth is by going back and analyzing the earliest teachings of the church and comparing them with scripture. The 16th century theologians ignored the early church writers because they believed in sola scriptura because they were filled with contempt for the Roman church and rightly so. So they sought to distance themselves from anything that was remotely Catholic not knowing that Roman Catholicism was not apostolic Catholicism. Even today the majority of people don’t know that. It takes some study and so many people just don’t want to be bothered with it. Many people just want a nice easy theology to believe that makes them feel safe and secure that doesn’t impose on their lifestyle and isn’t burdensome. They want someone to tell them what to believe and that’s it. Then after they’ve received that and they have their doctrines in place that’s all they see when they read the scriptures. The problem is these people will always come across certain scriptures that confuse them. They’ll come across verses that contradict their theology and they’re forced to either skip over them or try to interpret them in a manner that is not consistent with the context or results in contradicting what is actually stated or contradictory to other verses. As much as I hate to say it brother, you are notorious for doing this. Hebrews 6:4-6, John 15:1-7, and 2 Timothy 2:12 destroy your theology but you refuse to accept it. It’s not a competition, it’s not a matter of winning or losing, it’s a matter of one truth and determining what that truth is. Our theology must line up with all scripture otherwise it’s incorrect. It’s not ok to believe what we want. The word of God doesn’t teach whatever we want, it teaches the word of God, what He wants.

I don’t think you realize how close to universalism your theology actually is. Universalists teach that everyone will be saved no matter what they do. You teach that everyone will be saved no matter what they do as long as they believe that Jesus paid for their sins. Both teach that obedience to God is irrelevant and unnecessary. Both teach what the serpent said to Eve, “surely you will not die”. I apologize if you find this offensive and it’s not my intention to offend you but let me ask you in all sincere kindness and politeness and brotherly love, isn’t that what you are actually teaching? That we don’t have to obey God as long as we believe that Jesus will save us?

I usually don't try to answer long wordy posts such as this.

I don't believe that everyone is going to be saved, Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it. What most have found is religion. Religion is appealing because it is about them. It is of the flesh. You appear to be very religious. There is little to nothing in your long post about Christ. When Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4. He was also telling the Jews that their religion was worthless. The words "Law" and "Religion" basically mean the same thing. You can't have a religion without laws.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I already knew basically your answer and that we believe in two completely different gospels and really two different Jesus's which is really two different God's.

There is only One God which means one of us are wrong.

Mine is so powerful He, God can take the most miserable person and heal this sinner and give the sinner God's free gift of Eternal Life by faith only in God's only begotten Son, Jesus.

The only God that actually exists said this,

“Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

God needs no help from this person, because The Son has taken away the sin of the world. What that did was render any actions by a person seeking the way back to God obsolete.

The only God that actually exists said this,

“But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place unless you repent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

““And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this: ‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2‬:‭12‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Because God only requires a one time act of faith, trust, belief in The Son of God after that moment of faith. God is able to secure this person's free gift of Eternal Life for all of eternity for this person.

The only God who actually exists said this,

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

And as is stated in The Bible nothing can take this person out from God's hand. Not sin, not satan, demons, fallen angels, not even the person himself, no one means no one.

The only God that actually exists said this,

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now for your gospel and your God. This God needs help from the person to eventually earn this God's eternal life.

The only God that actually exists said this,

““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭27‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

And your God can not keep the person secure, so your God needs help again from the person, so the person will not lose his eternal life.

The only God that actually exists said this,


““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Or actually the person may not even have eternal life at all, till he dies. So really this person has to look to himself his whole life to see if he is meeting the requirements your God requires this person to do to earn eternal life. Really never knowing if he loved God enough or obeyed enough or repented enough to eventually have earned heaven/eternal life.

Your dishonesty in this post exposes the one whom you serve. As the author of Hebrews stated in chapter 4 that I highlighted above in bold letters you don’t even understand the elementary foundational teachings of Christ concerning faith in God and repentance. If you can’t even understand these basic elementary teachings of Christ you shouldn’t be trying to teach anyone anything about the gospel., your not qualified.

I could have answered the question asked (by me) the same way The Gospel of John answers the question. Faith in The promised Messiah, gets a person to heaven and gives them God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Please quote that verse.

 

[d taylor]

There is only One God which means one of us are wrong.



The only God that actually exists said this,

“Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬



The only God that actually exists said this,

“But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place unless you repent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

““And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this: ‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2‬:‭12‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬



The only God who actually exists said this,

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬



The only God that actually exists said this,

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬



The only God that actually exists said this,

““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭27‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬



The only God that actually exists said this,


““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬



Your dishonesty in this post exposes the one whom you serve. As the author of Hebrews stated in chapter 4 that I highlighted above in bold letters you don’t even understand the elementary foundational teachings of Christ concerning faith in God and repentance. If you can’t even understand these basic elementary teachings of Christ you shouldn’t be trying to teach anyone anything about the gospel., your not qualified.



Please quote that verse.

Like you said one of us is wrong, i can live with that and will be happy to let you go your way and stay in your theology that you believe in.

I have no other reason to do any more back and forths with you, i will continue to seek out people who are looking for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I usually don't try to answer long wordy posts such as this.

I don't believe that everyone is going to be saved, Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it. What most have found is religion. Religion is appealing because it is about them. It is of the flesh. You appear to be very religious. There is little to nothing in your long post about Christ. When Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4. He was also telling the Jews that their religion was worthless. The words "Law" and "Religion" basically mean the same thing. You can't have a religion without laws.

I know, as I said in that post I didn’t expect you to actually consider any of what I said. The purpose of it was just to allow you to display your disregard for logic & reason in regards to scriptural interpretation. I was certain that you wouldn’t fail to disregard it and that your response would be predictable since it’s what I’ve come to expect from our discussions. Sometimes when you can’t convince someone of their flaws it’s best to just allow them to display them for others to see so that they can decide for themselves which is more reasonable.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am learning, please explain,
how you account for this verse from the bible
as applied to what you believe?

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me,
ye that work iniquity.

Jesus gives further explanation on that topic with His following statements.

““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell and great was its fall.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭27‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Like you said one of us is wrong, i can live with that and will be happy to let you go your way and stay in your theology that you believe in.

I have no other reason to do any more back and forths with you, i will continue to seek out people who are looking for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Yeah you should really read Hebrews 4 again and work on that elementary teaching of repentance before you lead anyone else astray.

 

[RobertPate]

I know, as I said in that post I didn’t expect you to actually consider any of what I said. The purpose of it was just to allow you to display your disregard for logic & reason in regards to scriptural interpretation. I was certain that you wouldn’t fail to disregard it and that your response would be predictable since it’s what I’ve come to expect from our discussions. Sometimes when you can’t convince someone of their flaws it’s best to just allow them to display them for others to see so that they can decide for themselves which is more reasonable.

"Reasonable" is not the correct word. The correct word is truthful. My doctrine is based upon the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. And now stand before God's Holy Court as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Making all religions and isms worthless.

 

[d taylor]

I am learning, please explain,
how you account for this verse from the bible
as applied to what you believe?

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me,
ye that work iniquity.

Not Everyone Who Says “Lord, Lord” Will Enter the Kingdom: Matthew 7:21-23 – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[d taylor]

I am learning, it is my understanding that a worker of iniquity,
is a servant to sin. Is my understanding correct?

With out trusting in Jesus (The Messiah) all people practice lawlessness. Unless you are without sin (are you), so if you are not, then being one who practices lawlessness. Your only chance at not having Jesus tell you to depart, is to trust in Him for Eternal Life.

 

[d taylor]

I am without sin, in Christ. I am learning, it is my understanding that
if you commit sin then you are not in faith trusting Jesus.

Is my understanding incorrect?
I have found that you cannot find any fault with the truth
by finding any sin in the person speaking the truth.

I could be the greatest sinner and still
what I said to you is the truth.

Why are you focusing on sin, Jesus took away the sin of the world. Sin is not an obstacle for a person seeking God's free gift of Eternal Life. What is, is unbelief, receiving Eternal Life is a black and white issue. Either a person has trusted in The Messiah for Eternal Life or they have not. Sin plays no bearing on whether a person can believe/trust in The Messiah.

 

[d taylor]

Are you aware that God hates workers of iniquity?
Sin is iniquity.

You know what i am aware of, is that Jesus death and resurrection took away all sin past present and future. I am also aware that God plainly states, one who has not believed in The Messiah, God's wrath still is up on that person.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”