God's Tears

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Could it have been done without all that?

God has said it was necessary, therefore no, it was done how it was going to be done. When God decides and it is done, it is done in flawless perfection in spirit and in truth; it is finished.

 

[Tinker Grey]

God has said it was necessary, therefore no, it was done how it was going to be done. When God decides and it is done, it is done in flawless perfection in spirit and in truth; it is finished.

But a omnipotent god could have said otherwise, right? Is or it beholden to something outside itself?

 

[Larniavc]

God has said it was necessary, therefore no, it was done how it was going to be done. When God decides and it is done, it is done in flawless perfection in spirit and in truth; it is finished.

So are saying he couldn’t have done it any other way or he chose to do it on the way he did but could have selected another way?

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

God is beholden to no one. God can do anything any way He chooses. He chose to do what was done.

 

[CoreyD]

Favoritism? Are you saying that if I especially love my own husband and children, and hold them dear in a way that I don't extend to the nice man down the street, that this is favoritism? The Jewish people are mishpocha, my family. The Jewish people were the family of Jesus.

Sentimentality was estranged from him? So, he didn't really cry when his dear friend Lazarus died?

It seems to me that you are making Jesus into something less than human, if you cannot allow for him to feel what all normal humans feel.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said, or... hopefully you didn't confused empathy with sentimentality.
However, thanks for asking.

Could I ask one question....
If your husband... God forbid, molested his own daughter, and raped... Uhm... I'd better use something else.
I think you get the point.

Regardless of one's closeness and love for family, or other relatives, justice, and righteousness take priority over sentiment.
That's all I am saying.
Jesus "loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you above your companions with the oil of joy." Psalm 45:7

Feeling hurt and pain over the suffering of a person does not need to involve favoritism.
God feels pain over the loss of any human life, and Jesus likewise, feels the pain of any human, because it's a life.
Even the sparrow - a bird "of little worth" - that drops to the ground, the father notices.
We hardly notice their suffering... but God does.

What is the price of two sparrows - one copper coin? But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. - Matthew 10:31​

That tells us the depth of God's feelings.

 

[CoreyD]

Favoritism? Are you saying that if I especially love my own husband and children, and hold them dear in a way that I don't extend to the nice man down the street, that this is favoritism? The Jewish people are mishpocha, my family. The Jewish people were the family of Jesus.

Sentimentality was estranged from him? So, he didn't really cry when his dear friend Lazarus died?

It seems to me that you are making Jesus into something less than human, if you cannot allow for him to feel what all normal humans feel.

I just revisited my post, and realize, I was the one who sent you in the direction you took, by my use of words.
Sorry about that.
Yes, Jesus can have favorites.

 

[CoreyD]

Yet he lets it all happen. He even sets up the conditions for it all to happen. And he appears to do that with perfect knowledge of the consequences of his actions.

Which seems to contradict the suggestion that he is a loving god.

Yes, what you heard contradicts what the scriptures say, so it's important to get the facts straight, where we can then proceed from there, with information that is accurate.

What does this have to do with Ethics and Morality?

You just answered that question with your above post. Didn't you?

And you know that image isn’t a photograph right. Someone painted that?

You aren't the artist, are you. It's a very detailed painting. Very good.

How is the free will of a child not abrogated when they die lonely, painful deaths in war zones they are born into?

Yes, our free will is cut short, when we die. So is our suffering.

Yes it is. God can do anything instantly perfectly. Can’t he?

No. Not anything.
One example is allowing a fair "trial" in order to establish or exercise justice.
Sine He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He. Deuteronomy 32:4 God cannot ignore justice, nor his own standards of righteousness to do a "quick fix"
God is also a God of wisdom, and therefore, does not act as man does.

 

[CoreyD]

Could it have been done without all that?

It could have... However, that would have involved God ignoring every standard in the book, including justice and righteousness.
Think of it like this.
People say it was unjust for Biden to pardon his son.
Since this is a moral issue, let me involve you. Let's judge between you and God.

Your son murders a million people... a Jim Jones character, he is.
The sentence is guilty, and the punishment is the death penalty.
You are the judge.
Do you (A) pardon your son, and give him his freedom, or do you (B) carry out the sentence, though painful?

God chose B.
What do you choose?

 

[Larniavc]

You are the judge.
Do you (A) pardon your son, and give him his freedom, or do you (B) carry out the sentence, though painful?

God chose B.
What do you choose?

Yeah but that is a not analogous creating a being that you know full well will do a million murders because you created him that way. It is the creator that is at fault.

I play Dungeons and Dragons as a DM. I have the powers of God in the game. I put obstacles and challenges for the party to overcome and become more than that they were.

I don't dictate they have to be helpless children with terminal diseases destined to short painful lives. That would be a terrible thing to do.

 

[CoreyD]

Yeah but that is a not analogous creating a being that you know full well will do a million murders because you created him that way. It is the creator that is at fault.

Sounds like you are describing that alien with multiple eyes, on Monsters Vs Aliens.
No. God didn't do that.

If someone told you God did that, it would benefit you to stop listening to such persons, and pick up an actual Bible, and study it for yourself.
Yes, get help, for sure, but don't take the person's word for it.

Take your time, and study.

I play Dungeons and Dragons as a DM. I have the powers of God in the game. I put obstacles and challenges for the party to overcome and become more than that they were.

Powers of God. Sounds interesting.
I never played a game like that. I played many types of games.
I enjoyed Strategy games. DM sounds Strategy. Is it?

Interestingly, the Bible does not say God puts obstacles in his children's way. James 1:13-15
I can't imagine a loving father putting obstacles in his child's way.
Would you do that to your children?

I could see a father allowing his child to experience obstacles, when they do come, which would achieve the same goal you aim for, and this is what God does.
1 Corinthians 10:13

No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it​

In your game, do you also provide a way for the party to escape?
I'm sure it's GAME OVER for your entire party if they fail to overcome the obstacles.
Am I correct?

Not so with God.
Though some may fall... not due to God putting obstacles in their way, but rather, their meeting up with them from the world they live in, their own imperfections, and the enemy, God would never allow his people to be entirely wiped out.
1 Peter 5:8-11

8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.​

9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.​

10 In his kindness God called you to share in his eternal glory by means of Christ Jesus. So after you have suffered a little while, he will restore, support, and strengthen you, and he will place you on a firm foundation.​

11 To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.​

So, it looks like God is indeed the perfect ruler.
As the Bible says... Gods ways are perfect. Flawless.

I don't dictate they have to be helpless children with terminal diseases destined to short painful lives. That would be a terrible thing to do.

That's good.
What would you do, if they contacted terminal diseases because they contacted it... not from God, but it spread through the entire party?
I know some game do have something like that.
You'd probably heal them right?

What if you heal them, and they get terminally ill again?
Would that not be a miserable experience for both you and the party?
Would you not rather provide a permanent fix, so that they are never subject to sickness, and death?

As God, I would do that for my party, and that's what God has done.
Jesus death is the permanent "fix" God provided for mankind, so that

1. mankind would never get sick, or old. Isaiah 33:24; Revelation 21:3, 4
2. mankind would never die, but live forever. 1 Corinthians 15:26; Revelation 20:13, 14
3. mankind would never have to experience wars, crime, or any conflict from any enemy. Psalm 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:21, 22; 1 John 3:8; 1 Corinthians 15:24-29

So, again, wisdom... God is not only powerful, but wise, and so, in his patience, he provided the solution, that would permanently end all ills, and prevent them reoccurring. Romans 9:19-26
The temporary suffering cannot compare to the permanent fix. Romans 8:18

I'm with God, on this one.

 

[Larniavc]

If someone told you God did that, it would benefit you to stop listening to such persons, and pick up an actual Bible,

I have read the Bible cover to cover. It describes many people God created who were mass murderers. Have YOU read the Bible (not just the bits you like)?

 

[CoreyD]

I have read the Bible cover to cover.

Very good.
You did more than lots of people have.

Just a side question, for my own information. How do you view the Bible, though?

It describes many people God created who were mass murderers.

Have YOU read the Bible (not just the bits you like)?

Yes, I read the Bible... not to boast, but more that one score, and one.
In the Bible, I read that God created two people - Adam, and Eve, and he put them in a garden to populate the earth. You did read that as well, I am sure. Genesis 1:26-28

So, when Adam and Eve did what God told them to do - namely "multiply and fill the earth", everything passing through the womb of Eve, is seed, or offspring of Adam, and Eve.

Because Adam and Eve disobeyed, however, the one command that would have allowed them to produce perfect offspring as they were, when God created them, they produced - not children of God... Not a creation of God... but degenerate, sinful. alien to God, children.

You may have read these scriptures, but since the Bible is no little book, you may not remember them, or... and this is very common among many people, you may not have connected them.
Following, are the scriptures...
Deuteronomy 32:5; Ecclesiastes 4:17, 18 Colossians 1:21, 22;

This is where the sacrifice of Jesus - a most important provision by God - comes in.
Jesus' death reconciles mankind to God - that is, obedient mankind. In other words, Jesus death allows for illegitimate children not belonging to God, to become children of God, and... a creation by God. John 1:12, 13; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:1-3

Only those accepting Jesus sacrifice become God's children. The rest remain degenerate sinful alien to God children - not his creation - Hebrews 12:8.

Since you read the Bible from cover to cover... how many times, if I may ask? Then the answer to this question should be easy... Whose children were Adam and Eve's, if not God's? 1 John 3:9, 10; 1 John 5:18-21

Hence, the son born to us is the everlasting father, having produced children, so to speak. Isaiah 9:6
Wait a minute, though...
I addressed here, the fact that God did not create many people who were mass murderers, but I think you may have lost focus, and went a bit off course, since the issue was not whether or not someone God created was a mass murderer, but rather, your complaint was...

Yeah but that is a not analogous creating a being thatyou know full wellwill do a million murders because you created him that way. It is the creator that is at fault.
The Bible does not say that God knew full well that Adam would sin.
That is the part I am highlighting.
Therefore, to blame God, for Adam's misuse of free will, is without merit. It is a false accusation.

So, I'm saying to you, you need to get the facts straight, before running with something you have been told, and have not read in the scriptures.
Since you have read the Bible from cover to cover, then you should know that there is no scripture that says God knew Adam would sin.

If you read differently, I would like you to show me the scripture., please.
Let it be clear too, that nowhere does the scriptures support the view that God created many people that committed mass murder.
Adam is the only creation by God, that by his disobedience - his misuse of free will, plunged the entire human race -all his offspring - into sin, which leads to death.

None of us were God's children. God is perfect, and does not create imperfect things.
Can you imagine God creating someone with a defect... which doctors will then have to work hard to correct, because it's "not normal"... they would tell you?

Can you imagine God creating you with a tumor in your brain, or a hole in your heart... or sickle cell anemia?
No. These are defects, which are a result of sin. passed on by Adam, to all his offspring.
Not a creation of God. Please carefully consider the scriptures above.

 

[Larniavc]

The Bible does not say that God knew full well that Adam would sin.

More than knew it- planned it.

Proverbs 20: 21 Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the LORD’s purpose that prevails.

 

[CoreyD]

More than knew it- planned it.

Proverbs 20: 21 Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the LORD’s purpose that prevails.

The Lord's purpose does prevail. That is a fact.
It does not support your claim.

What is God's purpose, as stated in the Bible?
It's not to know and plan the fall of man. You did not see that in the Bible.
You might have imagined it, perhaps.