Faith-based adoption groups deny LGBT parents -- Trump support

[redleghunter]

Maybe evangelical Christians should be denied the right to adopt children. Maybe these particular Christians should be also be denied housing, insurance, medical care, employment, employment benefits, service in a public business, the right to marry, and be subjected to relentless harassment and bullying in the workplace. Maybe they should start reaping what they sow and be treated like second class citizens while being denied civil rights and equality. After all, it's a biblical teaching that people will reap what they sow. I can hear the gnashing of teeth and screams of persecution if these Christians were to experience the kind of discrimination against homosexuals that they cheer on.

"An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Or maybe not.

 

[redleghunter]

I can hear the gnashing of teeth and screams of persecution if these Christians were to experience the same kind of discrimination against homosexuals that they cheer on.

This HHS measure is in response to states discrimination against faith based adoptive services.

 

[GACfan]

Or maybe not.

Why not? Non-Christians call it Karma and Christians call it reaping what you sow. In other words, what goes around comes around. Christian adoption services shouldn't be given federal funds to use in their discriminatory actions against homosexual couples. Federal tax money shouldn't pay for that.

 

[GACfan]

I have seen documentaries on abused children who were bought up in heterosexual 'christian' homes, where the children were abused on a daily basis, because the parents took the bible so literally, & they thought that they were bringing up their children according to 'gods word'. I have also seen a documentary called 'Jesus Camp' where heterosexual parents sent their children to be mentally abused & brainwashed by a sadistic 'christian' preacher. Are these the sort of 'Christian' homes you are referring to, because I see no love at all in any of these places, only fear & hatred!

I know being raised in an evangelical Christian home can be emotionally detrimental to a child.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Yes any sexual relations outside of a one woman and one man union is by definition fornication and perversion.

Be easy on them
lack of Bible study
has left them lacking regarding this subject.
M-Bob

 

[Quartermaine]

p

Trump administration proposes HHS rule letting faith-based adoption groups deny would-be LGBT parents

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) proposed a new rule Friday that would allow faith-based foster care and adoption agencies to continue receiving federal money even if they turn away same-sex couples on the basis of the agencies' religious beliefs.

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Yes, Trump supports Christian values.
M-Bob

Preventing families form forming is a Christian value now?

 

[GACfan]

I believe that's true as well. I'm curious though: are you suggesting two people who love each other would, in itself, be a perversion because you don't happen to like who they love?
tulc(is having an excellent day today)

As if the love and sex life between a same-sex couple is the concern of some Christian. It's more of a matter of some people needing to learn how to mind their own business. I might be able to take this moral indignation against homosexuality seriously if the moral outrage was extended to include other sexual sins, but as it has been demonstrated by many Christians, that's simply not the case.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

p

Preventing families form forming is a Christian value now?

Bible study would answer that one.
M-Bob

 

[redleghunter]

Be easy on them
lack of Bible study
has left them lacking regarding this subject.
M-Bob

Well we are in a Christian only area of the forum so I keep it to the moral absolutes.

For seculars they can argue that not everyone is Christian and not all adoptive practices should follow the Truth of Scriptures. But the reason the HHS under Trump is doing this is because faith based adoptive services were being forced by state law or policy to include same sex couples in their adoptions.

Because of this Catholic adoptive services were closed down in two states.

A couple of points. In most states it is made possible to even have adoptive services because of the additional income and personnel faith based organizations provide. So they are just shooting themselves in the foot. Secondly, the state can take the funding away without imposing their edicts on the faith based adoptive services. That would be a neutral approach.

So what Trump has done is say “we are not going to withhold federal money from you if you stay with only heterosexual couples adopting.” Whereas Obama did the same thing with the whole bathroom debate. He could do that and so can Trump.

What should not happen and is discriminatory is for the federal government or any state or local government telling private adoptive services who receive no funding from tax dollars what they can or cannot do other than following health and safety regulations. Which choosing adoptive parents does not fall under.

 

[grasping the after wind]

All politicians support Chritian values in some area and reject them in another.

Not all, but perhaps the majority. Ilhan Omar, for instance, would not be supporting Christian values. Her support for the values of Islam might coincide in some case with a Christian value but she is not supporting any value because it is a Christian value.

 

[Anthony2019]

There are millions of children around the world who do not have someone to call their Mum or Dad. I used to be one of them - I was in care and had to wait over a decade to be placed with a family.

I was fortunate to live in a residential home with wonderful carers, but that is no substitute to having your own family. I never gave a second thought to the fact that I might have both a mum and Dad, one Dad, two mums, or two dads. That didn't really cross my mind. All I wanted was someone to accept me into their family, into their home, to care for me and treat me as one of their own. Watching my friends leave the home, one by one, to live with their new families, whilst I was left there waiting, left me feeling hurt and rejected and afraid of my future.

Of course it is important that people are vetted for their eligibility to adopt. But the reality is that whilst society argues over whether some groups are more desirable than others, children who are in the same position I was will have to wait even longer.

 

[GACfan]

p

Preventing families form forming is a Christian value now?

It has been for a long time now, but that belief has excluded adulterers, divorced and remarried couples (in their second or third or fourth marriage), heterosexuals who have premarital sex and live together before they are married, and Christians addicted to pornography. IOW, it's a bit selective.

 

[Yarddog]

Not all, but perhaps the majority. Ilhan Omar, for instance, would not be supporting Christian values. Her support for the values of Islam might coincide in some case with a Christian value but she is not supporting any value because it is a Christian value.

Doing good is a Christian value even if one isn't a Christian.

 

[redleghunter]

As if the love and sex life between a same-sex couple is the concern of some Christian. It's more of a matter of some people needing to learn how to mind their own business. I might be able to take this moral indignation against homosexuality seriously if the moral outrage was extended to include other sexual sins, but as it has been demonstrated by many Christians, that's simply not the case.

Again the reason this measure came up is due to discriminatory practices against faith based adoptive services.

A gay couple can go to a non faith based service and adopt a child. No one is advocating for shutting them out of adopting based on secular norms.

There are people who want faith based adoptive services to comply with an agenda which is not in keeping with their free exercise of religion.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Doing good is a Christian value even if one isn't a Christian.

Doing good is a subjective calculation. What one person sees as doing good another could see as doing evil. I suggest that every person on the planet believes they favor doing good yet there is no agreement on which behaviors are good and which are bad. A terrorist believes that fomenting terror in forwarding their cause is a good thing. A Nazi believes that bringing the Jews down is a good thing. An Antifa thug believe that punching a person that he/she can label a Nazi is a good thing. I disagree with all those people and see what they do as doing very bad things. Some people think that simply giving the poor many or doing things for the needy is a good thing for the poor and the needy others think it enslaves them to a dependency on others and robs them of self respect and the satisfaction of accomplishment. So what is doing good and what is doing bad or what is loving your neighbor and what is making yourself feel righteous are determinations that are not universally shared.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Trump administration proposes HHS rule letting faith-based adoption groups deny would-be LGBT parents

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) proposed a new rule Friday that would allow faith-based foster care and adoption agencies to continue receiving federal money even if they turn away same-sex couples on the basis of the agencies' religious beliefs.

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Yes, Trump supports Christian values.
M-Bob

I just opened this to read the comments. As I expected. But Trump is doing well, very well.

 

[GACfan]

Thank goodness you don't get to make that call.
M-Bob

And speaking of "you don't get to make that call," I'd say that applies more to Christians who object to same-sex couples adopting children. It's not their call or any of their business, to be honest.

 

[Quartermaine]

Study Examines Effect of Having a Gay Parent

Funny how the right wing groups keep trying to bring this one out.

it's not a study on the effects of having a gay parent because the study's author didn't include any child with a gay/lesbian parent.

the author Mark Regnerus said in an interview with Focus on the Family "I didn’t ask them whether they thought their mom was a lesbian or if their dad was gay. Because, in part, self-identity is a different kind of thing than behavior, and lot of people weren’t “out” in that era."

 

[Quartermaine]

Study Examines Effect of Having a Gay Parent

These kids experience more problems.
Makes sense to a faith based Christian
who believes in the Word.

if the kids do experience problems how about laying the blame where it belongs. with the people giving the children grief because they choose to hate the kids parents.

OK let us try a scenario here.
I am a little boy or girl who is going to be adopted out. Would I rather be adopted by a gay couple or a man and woman (straight) couple? Even little boys and girls know the answer to that one.
Why Put Them In Harms Way?
M-Bob

How about being adopted by the best parents?

 

[Quartermaine]

No child would choose to be deprived of a mother and a father. When this happens through death or divorce we see it as a misfortune for the child. Two mothers or two fathers does not make up for not having both a mother and a father. It is child abuse to deliberately deprive children of having male & female parents in the home.

is it child abuse to allow a widowed mother to keep custody of her children? Doing so would deprive that child of a mother or father. Or is that "different"?