Difference in belief

[Gwen-is-new!]

Hi Guys, I need some advice.

I am a Christian and I have seen some people differ in their belief as to exactly what Christians believe. My belief is that your salvation/ever lasting life is obtained through your faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. That you are saved by faith and faith alone.

Now my problem is that I am in a relationship with a woman for a year and a half. She is Old Apostolic, the religion basically originated in South Africa.
.

I will take a shot at this, but you have a lot in here! I think you should focus on the "essentials" .. and definitely don't freak out yet! Make sure you agree on those - basically faith only, grace alone, Jesus alone, bible alone - who is God, who is Jesus, how are we saved? What's our purpose?

A lot of times, it is simply semantics - they are speaking a different type of "Christianese" so you have to dig a little deeper, and find out what they really believe and if it flat out flies in the face of scripture. For example, if someone said God used to be man.. that's a different God, or if someone said a murderer couldn't go to heaven, that's a different Jesus dying on the cross. If she doesn't believe Jesus was God then that's obviously a huge problem, but why not show her in the scriptures all the places that Jesus proclaimed His deity?

You don't simply walk away from someone when they just might need someone to read the bible with them! I'm thinking you might be the answer to her mom's prayer or a sibling or anyone who knows she is getting bad theology, and therefore there is no assurance of her salvation at this time!

If her church says the bible is interpreted by the Holy Spirit.. yes, read up on the attributes of the Holy Sprit -- the illuminator, the helper, leds us to Truth.. God used the Holy Spirit to inspire the writers of the bible, right? Everyone has a personal relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit living inside of them, but there is only one Holy Spirit.. I would not fret this one - it only shows they put an emphasis on the Holy Spirit and a lot of churches flat out ignore Him so.. that's just my opinion.

Attending church that frequently isn't necessary devotion, as it is indoctrination, pastor elevating himself to God-like status or trying to control the flock, maybe a sign it's a theological cult. That was the biggest flag in your post to me.. I knew someone who went to an "apostolic" church and they spent every waking second there.. all hours of the night, and they didn't believe in the trinity, thought you had to be baptized to be saved, and had to be baptized in "Jesus name only".. I could go on and on.. no make up, no jewelry, but those were non-essentials.. Their plan of salvation was different from mine, so that was the show-stopper -- that means a different God IMHO.

 

[inkaboutit]

Hi Guys, I need some advice.

I am a Christian and I have seen some people differ in their belief as to exactly what Christians believe. My belief is that your salvation/ever lasting life is obtained through your faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. That you are saved by faith and faith alone.

Now my problem is that I am in a relationship with a woman for a year and a half. She is Old Apostolic, the religion basically originated in South Africa.

They use the Bible, but they interpret it spiritually. They also go to church 6 days a week including twice on Sunday's. They are very faithful and their religion is held very high.

They also believe that you basically work through faith for your salvation and that is a fundamental difference. The other big difference is that they believe that Jesus was only an example that God sent us to show how to live, he had the gift of Christ in him and we must all strive to live like he did. When Jesus died he rose in the mind of people, so that Christ gift rose and not the physical body of Christ. So that being said they do not believe that Jesus will come again because he already came. They also believe that the Church is the body of Christ and thus when they refer to Jesus/the Son then they refer to the Church.

Before I met her I was single for a long time and asked Jesus to send me a faithful girl to spend my life with. I received exactly what i asked for, well exempt that her belief differs from mine.

I am not sure why it turned out like this and what to do. Why did God put me in this situation?

I have to basically change to their religion if i ever want to marry her btw.

Also they believe in Visions and Dreams and that is the way God speaks to us, the scary thing is that some of the dreams they spoke about actually happens exactly how it was seen. This is the only thing that makes me confused, because why will they get visions and dreams that is exactly to the point of how it was given. God warns them through visions and dreams, it actually makes one think.

**************inkaboutit4u.com reply **********

This religion is clearly a false religion from what you describe.

What you say your belief is and what her belief is, they clearly are NOT the same. But you say you take on her belief. That is wrong.

When you are single hoping to find someone to marry, look out. Satan love to mess people up. Just because you say you prayed, and then she came along, does not mean she came from God at all. There are many online dating web sites to meet a Christian girl.

When i was in Bible College i pray similar prayers and even prayed for many "signs" that this girl is the "right one", i got many miracles signs, But they were not from God, but from Satan, misleading me. It did not create the fruits of the spirit and did not work out at all. Easy to be mislead. Don't pray for any "signs".

This other religion is a, "work your way to heaven" religion and not Christianity at all. It sounds more along the lines of JW or Jehovah Witness religion. They also reject Jesus is God. They say he is Son of God but not God. This is false teaching.

Jesus clearly rose physically from death. That is very clear in the Bible. Just read the ending of the gospels, it is clear.

Believe in Visions and Dreams, not a big deal , but when they start teaching opposite the Bible it is a big deal.

It is clear in the Bible that Jesus is coming again.

 

[writewords]

Clearly, these kinds of beliefs they hold are heretical.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

it is possible that you are correct. The only thing the Bible clearly says on the subject is that we will all be changed. What that change looks like, we do not know. The issue was that there will be a bodily resurrection for all saints, just as there was for Jesus...it was not a spiritual resurrection and it was not an elevated consciousness of Christ...nor will it be. Our bodies will be raised...what happens after that is up to God.

I see Paul talking about a catching up of some kind into the air. He says we will be changed. We will put on immortality at this point.

16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:52).

"...this mortal must put on immortality." (1 Corinthians 15:53).

But then the Scriptures say in Revelation 20,

4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:4-5).

Clearly when comparing 1 Thessalonians 4/1 Corinthians 15 vs. Revelation 20, we see two different types of resurrections being described. One is spiritual and the other is physical.

Paul emphasizes the point in 1 Corinthians 15 how there is a spiritual body and a natural body.

Our old spirit bodies are doomed for destruction (annihialation) and are mortal, unless of course we receive a new one that is immortal.


...

 

[RaymondG]

Your idea of faith seems to be a little bit askew. I guess I have to ask you, I see that you have listed "Pentecostal" as your religion...I am an Assemblies of God minister and I have not seen you say anything that comes close to be orthodox Pentecostal theology.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen that is Hebrews 1:1 the Greek word for faith is pistis and it means to be convinced of the truth of something. However, when you read through Hebrews 11 and put that verse into context, the object of the faith was and always will be God. Some people lived amazing and "overcoming lives" and others were beaten and put to death with the sword. Some received the promise God had given them and some never got to receive the promise...but are now part of that great cloud of witnesses that sees the promise being revealed.

If you read my post carefully, you would see that I did state any doctrine or beliefs to follow. I only asked questions about what others have said. disregard any professions of faith next to names.....By a persons fruit you will know them. God is love, and if one does not exhibit love for their brother, the love of the father is not in them.
I have not felt lead to preach doctrine or beliefs therefore i wont. Im not one to boost in knowledge or say im right and everyone else is wrong....This helps no one but the confidence of ones self.

Thank you for your opinions. Do you have any helpful information for the poster?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I will take a shot at this, but you have a lot in here! I think you should focus on the "essentials" .. and definitely don't freak out yet! Make sure you agree on those - basically faith only, grace alone, Jesus alone, bible alone - who is God, who is Jesus, how are we saved? What's our purpose?

A lot of times, it is simply semantics - they are speaking a different type of "Christianese" so you have to dig a little deeper, and find out what they really believe and if it flat out flies in the face of scripture. For example, if someone said God used to be man.. that's a different God, or if someone said a murderer couldn't go to heaven, that's a different Jesus dying on the cross. If she doesn't believe Jesus was God then that's obviously a huge problem, but why not show her in the scriptures all the places that Jesus proclaimed His deity?

You don't simply walk away from someone when they just might need someone to read the bible with them! I'm thinking you might be the answer to her mom's prayer or a sibling or anyone who knows she is getting bad theology, and therefore there is no assurance of her salvation at this time!

If her church says the bible is interpreted by the Holy Spirit.. yes, read up on the attributes of the Holy Sprit -- the illuminator, the helper, leds us to Truth.. God used the Holy Spirit to inspire the writers of the bible, right? Everyone has a personal relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit living inside of them, but there is only one Holy Spirit.. I would not fret this one - it only shows they put an emphasis on the Holy Spirit and a lot of churches flat out ignore Him so.. that's just my opinion.

Attending church that frequently isn't necessary devotion, as it is indoctrination, pastor elevating himself to God-like status or trying to control the flock, maybe a sign it's a theological cult. That was the biggest flag in your post to me.. I knew someone who went to an "apostolic" church and they spent every waking second there.. all hours of the night, and they didn't believe in the trinity, thought you had to be baptized to be saved, and had to be baptized in "Jesus name only".. I could go on and on.. no make up, no jewelry, but those were non-essentials.. Their plan of salvation was different from mine, so that was the show-stopper -- that means a different God IMHO.

Yes, you have to think that this person is going to be at the church 24/7. If they are not believing as the Bible says, then there is no common ground to want to be with them. You will be essentially alone or at home while they are at church. That is no way to have a marriage. God can be in a marriage. God does not dwell in temples made by hands.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you read my post carefully, you would see that I did state any doctrine or beliefs to follow. I only asked questions about what others have said. disregard any professions of faith next to names.....By a persons fruit you will know them. God is love, and if one does not exhibit love for their brother, the love of the father is not in them.
I have not felt lead to preach doctrine or beliefs therefore i wont. Im not one to boost in knowledge or say im right and everyone else is wrong....This helps no one but the confidence of ones self.

Thank you for your opinions. Do you have any helpful information for the poster?

Please feel free to help me to understand "What happens when a believer commits sin" and how that relates to how your belief is moral and good, my friend. I asked you questions before to determine this. Granted, I am glad you are in defense of Jesus's words that say, "We will know a tree by it's fruit." But if Christ's words are truly correct on this point, "Would you not help me to see how your belief is good? Would you not be patient with me?

For it makes me suspicious of what you believe if you do not share what that belief actually is by answering my questions.

In any event, may God bless you.
And please be well.

Side Note 1:

If you do not want to discuss that briefly here, you can start another thread and provide me with a link, my friend.

Side Note 2:

I replied to one of your past posts here that makes me believe you do hold to a form of Eternal Security because you said a believer cannot fall away from the faith. It doesn't matter if you accept the words OSAS, Once Saved Always Saved, or Eternal Security. That is what it appears you believe. For others are proud to admit they believe such a thing and they have no problem of being attached with such names or labels. Do you ever use the word "Bible"? Yet, the word "Bible" is not in the Bible. Do you ever use the word "Trinity"? See what I mean? Names for certain things or beliefs are not wrong just because we are not familar with not using them. In fact, it is by labels we help to determine what certain things are and what certain people believe. Granted, not everyone who falls under a certain label is that way exactly in every case. But if placing a name to a belief or thing is only a means to determine the truth of things, why is that a bad thing? We should not be afraid to define things. I can comfortably say that a "cat" is a "feline." It is just another name for "cat." So if your belief lines up with what others call Eternal Security or OSAS, then why do you appear to be so against that?


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[Gwen-is-new!]

Thank God for his mercy and unmerited grace.....For when i was in a world of sin, he didnt dropped me like a a hot potato and write me off, like you two are suggesting be done with this young lady.

God is not like man....if he were.......we'd all be toast.

I may have missed a post, but I haven't seen where the OP said he's tried to clarify genuine Jesus/Christianity -- the Good News with her, and she flat out rejected him.

I didn't see where he said that his faith is shaky and he is confused and she is a bad influence either, so seems walking away would be down-right hateful. Definitely don't marry or attend her church, and down-grade your status to friends.

I think Jesus did walk away from those who "didn't have ears to hear".. but she seems like a lost sheep, and

Here is another problem with her belief:

The Old Apostolic church also has a low regard for God's Word (the Bible), too. According to one report, you are not allowed to bring your Bible with you to their church. The apostles in what they speak is the Word. They do not believe the flood is a literal story that happened. So they have a very low regard for the Bible. However, any group that has a low regard for the Bible should immediately send up red flags in your brain and or police sirens to go off within you.

Send a text or call up this woman you are having a relationship with immediately and tell her you are breaking it off. Tell her you believe Jesus is God, and you believe in the resurrection as essential teachings for salvation according to the Bible. Tell her you have a high regard for God's Word and you prefer to use your Bible at church and anywhere else you please. Let go of this woman and pray to God for another one (And God will be faithful to you).

...

The flood being literal or not isn't an essential to salvation or the Good News! It's also judgmental to assume someone has a low view of scripture because they think that.. It's like the old earth/young earth debate - the enemy must just love distracting us with these debates, and getting us to judge our fellow brothers and sisters and Christ, and accuse them of not having a high regard for the bible -- that's the devil alright.. the accuser. Please let's not do his job for him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I may have missed a post, but I haven't seen where the OP said he's tried to clarify genuine Jesus/Christianity -- the Good News with her, and she flat out rejected him.

I didn't see where he said that his faith is shaky and he is confused and she is a bad influence either, so seems walking away would be down-right hateful. Definitely don't marry or attend her church, or hey, maybe talk to her pastor and let him point out the scriptures

I think Jesus did walk away from those who "didn't have ears to ears to hear".. but she seems like a lost sheep, and


The flood being literal or not isn't an essential to salvation or the Good News! It's also judgmental to assume someone has a low view of scripture because they think that.. It's like the old earth/young earth debate - the enemy must just love distracting us with these debates, and getting us to judge our fellow brothers and sisters and Christ, and accuse them of not having a high regard for the bible -- that's the devil alright.. the accuser. Please let's not do his job for him.

Her church denies that Jesus is God and they deny the resurrection of Jesus.
Both of these beliefs are salvation issues.
Then there is the huge downplaying of God's Word that this particular church does, as well.
You are not even allowed to take a Bible with you to their church.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

I am a Christian and my faith is based on a certain foundation, I do not know who is right and who is wrong, but faith is a believe in something hoped for.

The reason I believe I am "right" or more "right" is that in my opinion once you start allowing interpretation to the Bible, where does it start and end? Without the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ then Christianity falls flat. If you say no, let us interpret it spiritually, who in the end has the correct interpretation and who gives any authority to interpret it that way.

That being said, they received visions and dreams, are they of God? I do not know for sure. I have a belief and yes it might sound like I think they are wrong and I am right, but I also cannot deny they do receive something from someone.

My post asking for advice and yes like you might see, I am a bit confused

I will stick to whether you should be going out with this woman.
Someone once said:
Trust your gut feeling it will never let you down.
I have found that to be very true, and at times I paid the price of not trusting that gut feeling.
Im sure deep in your heart you know if it is right or wrong for you to be in this relationship.
Do you peace in the relationship? Or, do you in your mind try and convince yourself that gut feeling is wrong?
I'm afraid it isn't going to help you if people tell you it is OK to go out with someone who has the beliefs this woman does.
Your gut feeling tells you, either way. Please don't go against it. I know from bitter experience what the result of doing that can be

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Her church denies that Jesus is God and they deny the resurrection of Jesus.
Both of these beliefs are salvation issues.
Then there is the huge downplaying of God's Word that this particular church does, as well.
You are not even allowed to take a Bible with you to their church.


...

yes, it sounds like a border-line cult

 

[PloverWing]

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. It could work yes, but the main problem I have is how do you raise children? We both want children and I would want to raise them the way I believe and I would not expect anything less from her side.

This is a good and important question to ask, now, before you get into a marriage. Some things you'll have to agree on, because you have to decide to act one way or another: Do you baptize your children as infants, or wait until they make their own choice for baptism? Do you take the children to one church, or the other, or both? and similar questions.

There are a number of issues about which I've told my children something like this: "Some Christians believe X, and here's why; other Christians believe Y, and here's why." That's how I've handled a lot of discussions that involve the differences between Episcopalians and other denominations, or liberal/conservative differences like interpretations of Genesis. So for some issues, you might say "Your mother believes X, for these reasons, and I believe Y, for these other reasons", if you're comfortable doing that.

There will probably be some core beliefs that you (and your companion) both think are very important to teach your children. If you're considering marriage, I suggest having a serious talk about these beliefs. Can you come to an agreement on the things you most want to teach your children? Or, are you both truly comfortable with saying "I believe X and mom/dad believes Y" even on core issues? This is something the two of you will have to work out.

Interdenominational marriages can be challenging, and interfaith marriages can be very challenging. I wish both of you blessings as you and your companion try to discern your life path.

 

[RaymondG]

Please feel free to help me to understand "What happens when a believer commits sin" and how that relates to how your belief is moral and good, my friend. I asked you questions before to determine this. Granted, I am glad you are in defense of Jesus's words that say, "We will know a tree by it's fruit." But if Christ's words are truly correct on this point, "Would you not help me to see how your belief is good? Would you not be patient with me?

For it makes me suspicious of what you believe if you do not share what that belief actually is by answering my questions.

In any event, may God bless you.
And please be well.

Side Note 1:

If you do not want to discuss that briefly here, you can start another thread and provide me with a link, my friend.

Side Note 2:

I replied to one of your past posts here that makes me believe you do hold to a form of Eternal Security because you said a believer cannot fall away from the faith. It doesn't matter if you accept the words OSAS, Once Saved Always Saved, or Eternal Security. That is what it appears you believe. For others are proud to admit they believe such a thing and they have no problem of being attached with such names or labels. Do you ever use the word "Bible"? Yet, the word "Bible" is not in the Bible. Do you ever use the word "Trinity"? See what I mean? Names for certain things or beliefs are not wrong just because we are not familar with not using them. In fact, it is by labels we help to determine what certain things are and what certain people believe. Granted, not everyone who falls under a certain label is that way exactly in every case. But if placing a name to a belief or thing is only a means to determine the truth of things, why is that a bad thing? We should not be afraid to define things. I can comfortably say that a "cat" is a "feline." It is just another name for "cat." So if your belief lines up with what others call Eternal Security or OSAS, then why do you appear to be so against that?


...

You are in the business of drawing lines in the sand and separating people, just like you have with this man and almost wife. And not only do you put yourself on the heaven bound side, and the people who don't agree with you on the hell bound side, but you seem to take joy in spraying on the pam, and preparing to watch them burn. Well you go ahead and do that while I go jump in the fire and save as many as I can. If I perish let me perish. Go sit on your high horse with your popcorn and watch the show. If I don't make it back, feel free to tell your friends you told me so, we you are relaxing in your mansion in the sky.

 

[Acts2:38]

The Old Apostolic Church has its roots from branching off of Catholicism. They dabble in Pentecostal, Protestant, among a couple other type beliefs pending on the region of the world they are in. You can go to several different ones on their websites and find 'about us' for their beliefs. Match that with what the bible says and voila, you got your answer.

A couple side notes from reading a dozen or so posts:

1) I saw too many people saying 'drop this girl'. But what does the bible say?
1 Corinthians 7:12-14. If it doesnt work out look at the following verses 15 and so on. I'm not going to say it will be easy, but I seen first hand that you can successfully be married to a non believer and have a very happy marriage. So the 'drop this girl' comments you can ignore.

2) I saw a mentioning of "faith only" that you believe and you are saved. I do not recall or read that you got a response refuting that. This is a false doctrine.

John 3:16--One of the most abused verses in the bible. Notice how it says "SHOULD not perish, but...". That means there are conditions. Just look at the definition of 'should'.

What are the conditions?
1. Hear the word – Romans 10:17, Matthew 7:24-27

2. Believe the word is true and believe in Jesus – Hebrews 11:6, Mark 16:15-16 (not faith only), James 2:24, John 12:42

3. Repent of your sins and transgressions – Acts 2:38, Acts 17:30-31, Luke 13:3

4. Confess Jesus is Lord and Lord of your life – Matthew 10:32-33, Acts 8:36-37

5. Baptism for the repentance, forgiveness of your sins -

• Purpose: Acts 2:38, Mark 16:15-16, Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts 10:48, John 3:5, Luke 7:30. Read 2 Corinthians 5:17 with Galatians 3:27.
• Action: Romans 6:3-5, Acts 8:36-38, Mark 1:9-10, John 3:23
• Infants need not to be baptized - Matthew 18:3, Mark 10:13-15, Ezekiel 18:20, Romans 14:12.

6. Remain faithful until death – Revelation 2:10

Just 'faith only' will get you nowhere fast. Read James 2:14 to the end of the chapter.

Lots of people recite Ephesians 2:8-9 however they lack the understanding of what is said here. It means you can't work or earn the "UNMERITED" "GRACE", but you do have to obey the gospel. What is obeying the gospel? One such 'work' would be spreading God's word right? Thats a work that you must obey. You can't just sit on your toosh letting time pass by til you die. You need to get out there and use your talents. Remember the talents parable given to those three servants? Yea, you got to use them.

Belief is even a work. Don't 'believe' me see John 6:29.

"faith only" = false doctrine. Stay away from that. James 2:18-20.

 

[RaymondG]

yes, it sounds like a border-line cult

Dont be so quick to believe blindly. A lot of false information was given.

-Although you could assume, the OP did not say specifically that they stated Jesus was not God.....it did however say He was only an example for us and was "Christed" (whatever that means)

-The OP did not say they denied the resurrection of christ.....It stated that it was more of a Spiritual event as opposed to physical.

-lastly The OP did not state at all the the woman said they couldnt bring bibles to church....Jason said that he heard one case of someone in the religion saying that this occurred and this was enough to make him make you believe that this happened at the church of the woman in questions as well.

If you have the truth, why would you need to make all of these false statements?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are in the business of drawing lines in the sand and separating people, just like you have with this man and almost wife. And not only do you put yourself on the heaven bound side, and the people who don't agree with you on the hell bound side, but you seem to take joy in spraying on the pam, and preparing to watch them burn. Well you go ahead and do that while I go jump in the fire and save as many as I can. If I perish let me perish. Go sit on your high horse with your popcorn and watch the show. If I don't make it back, feel free to tell your friends you told me so, we you are relaxing in your mansion in the sky.

Well, please read what I write to you, dear sir. Again, I do not wish you or anyone else ill will of any kind. I am told by Jesus to pray and to love my enemies. I also do not believe in Eternal Concious Torment. So there would be no endless torment or fiery torture that would be taking place anyways. So the scenario you describe (Would not happen) and you would be accusing me falsely.

As for drawing lines in the sand: Are you saying there are no lines to draw?
You said you will jump in the fire and try to save as many as you can.
Well, the Bible does not say anything like that.
The closest is Jude 1:23 and it actually says,

"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
(Jude 1:23).

Did you catch that?
Jude says there are those who pull people OUT of the fire. It does not say they jump into the fire with them. Jude also says here that they save with fear, too.
It does not seem like your belief exactly works with the idea of saving anyone with fear (if you ask me).

Do you believe in Universalism (i.e. that everyone is saved)?
There are self professing Christians who do believe in Universalism.
This of course is not a teaching found in the Bible.
In fact, not believing in Universalism involves a drawing a line in the sand of some kind;
For not everyone will be saved in a non-Univeralism type belief.


...

 

[RaymondG]

Well, please read what I write to you, dear sir. Again, I do not wish you or anyone else ill will of any kind. I am told by Jesus to pray and to love my enemies. I also do not believe in Eternal Concious Torment. So there would be no endless torment or fiery torture that would be taking place anyways. So the scenario you describe (Would not happen) and you would be accusing me falsely.

As for drawing lines in the sand: Are you saying there are no lines to draw?
You said you will jump in the fire and try to save as many as you can.
Well, the Bible does not say anything like that.
The closest is Jude 1:23 and it actually says,

"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
(Jude 1:23).

Did you catch that?
Jude says there are those who pull people OUT of the fire. It does not say they jump into the fire with them. Jude also says here that they save with fear, too.
It does not seem like your belief exactly works with the idea of saving anyone with fear (if you ask me).

Do you believe in Universalism (i.e. that everyone is saved)?
There are self professing Christians who do believe in Universalism.
This of course is not a teaching found in the Bible.
In fact, not believing in Universalism involves a drawing a line in the sand of some kind;
For not everyone will be saved in a non-Univeralism type belief.


...

I understand, Good luck to you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I understand, Good luck to you

Well, such an answer does not help me to know what you believe, but okay.
Anyways, two more questions.
Do you believe in preaching God's Word?
What does preaching the Word mean to you?


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[Acts2:38]

I also do not believe in Eternal Concious Torment. So there would be no endless torment or fiery torture that would be taking place anyways.

Hello,

Just wanted to know your idea on these scriptures:

Luke 16:19-31

Matthew 25:46 Greek word for everlasting aiōnios "without end, never to cease, everlasting". Same goes for eternal. Same Greek word here. Same Greek word describes both eternal life and eternal punishment.

aiōnios is also the same word used to describe God's glory here 1 Peter 5:10. "eternal glory".

Jude also uses that very same Greek word in verses 7 and 21. aiōnios.

The parable of the rich man (Luke 16), just adds further an idea of what happens. The rich man seemed very conscious to me.

Luke 12:4-5 (why would anyone fear hell if they will be 'annihilated' or not conscious? Who would care of the consequences?)

Just some food for thought.

 

[Waggles]

So are you saying my belief that faith is the only way to salvation is incorrect and I must first find the correct way (that might be theirs) and then I can try and deal with my situation?

I believe you can save yourself a great deal of heartache and confusion by going directly to God himself.
Pray to Jesus for him to lead you to the truth. Pray for people to preach the original one and only gospel
that you can read in Acts and the epistles.
Put your trust in Jesus as your Saviour and to lead you to a Church that Jesus has confidence in.

Twenty years ago I walked out from a local shopping centre into a the street and read a small poster
of a lady's testimony to being born again by water and the Holy Spirit. And how her life was
miraculously transformed from sinfulness to righteous living, with the added benefits of many
miracles and healings.
While reading this, a man named Bob came over and opened up his beloved KJV large print Bible
and read out various scriptures concerning salvation. Those scriptures came off the page and entered my heart. I was troubled and couldn't stop thinking "what if this is true?"

I was very loyal and committed to my Roman Catholic faith, and therefore greatly stressed over this
new gospel of these signs shall follow them that believe.
So I prayed to Jesus and asked for his guidance and his direction. By supernatural omens and signs
Jesus brought me to a Pentecostal fellowship that did all things in obedience to the Word.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6