Concerned about the political situation in USA.

[Elfkind]

I follow news from around the world, but specially USA have been worrying with such a division between it's citizens because of politics. Also I'm worried in particular for Christian brothers and sisters, as it seem like the Republican Party have a huge influence on Christians, and to me it seem like the right wing is playing with the stability of the world, and sapping the strength of democracy. The recent election in California for example, the Republican candidate declared voter fraud before the election was even done, so I wish I could explain how it all seem like from the outside. It's all the same to me whomever is the president there, but political attacks on the voting process and the claims about fraud, something that seem obvious to not be true, but it's just as obvious that a lot of Americans really don't know right from wrong anymore. So when I heard the news of the general in the Trump-administration reassuring the Chinese, that themselves were horrified and expected war, I can only remember myself the pure horror when it seemed like they was trying to hold on to power, despite losing an election. I would just not follow it all anymore and forget about it, if not for the fact that USA and whatever happen there is likely to have an effect on my own little country.

Does anyone from the USA with a similar observation, only not as worried about it all? Is the states likely to get back the earlier stability?

I didn't write this because I want to argue about anything, just sharing my observation and trying to make sense of the political situation, so if anyone have some insight and can share insight into how not to worry, I'd be glad.

 

[Albion]

Also I'm worried in particular for Christian brothers and sisters, as it seem like the Republican Party have a huge influence on Christians, and to me it seem like the right wing is playing with the stability of the world, and sapping the strength of democracy. The recent election in California for example, the Republican candidate declared voter fraud before the election was even done, so I wish I could explain how it all seem like from the outside.

Well, your concern in general is merited, but you've got the players backwards and, for the facts, you're likely going on what the overwhelmingly left-wing media have presented to you. If you are inclined that way already, you probably didn't think to question it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I follow news from around the world, but specially USA have been worrying with such a division between it's citizens because of politics. Also I'm worried in particular for Christian brothers and sisters, as it seem like the Republican Party have a huge influence on Christians, and to me it seem like the right wing is playing with the stability of the world, and sapping the strength of democracy. The recent election in California for example, the Republican candidate declared voter fraud before the election was even done, so I wish I could explain how it all seem like from the outside. It's all the same to me whomever is the president there, but political attacks on the voting process and the claims about fraud, something that seem obvious to not be true, but it's just as obvious that a lot of Americans really don't know right from wrong anymore. So when I heard the news of the general in the Trump-administration reassuring the Chinese, that themselves were horrified and expected war, I can only remember myself the pure horror when it seemed like they was trying to hold on to power, despite losing an election. I would just not follow it all anymore and forget about it, if not for the fact that USA and whatever happen there is likely to have an effect on my own little country.

Does anyone from the USA with a similar observation, only not as worried about it all? Is the states likely to get back the earlier stability?

I didn't write this because I want to argue about anything, just sharing my observation and trying to make sense of the political situation, so if anyone have some insight and can share insight into how not to worry, I'd be glad.

I am in the same situation as an outsider looking in. It seems to be the inheritance of the Donald Trump administration. Sadly in my lifetime this is the only president that has brought disunity to the American people. I think his legacy will be felt there in the US for some time to come.

 

[1rreducibly Complex]

Donald Trump tried to build a wall to prevent an US immigration crisis in 2016.

While the UK and EU enthusiastically embraced open borders.

Trump and many americans understand that allowing large numbers of illegal immigrants into the country, while we have no jobs to give them. Would eventually cause a crisis. Basic logistics which appear to have escaped the majority of europeans who support open borders.

Given that precedent I would be more concerned about europe having poor leadership, making poor choices and supporting the wrong things. Than I would be concerned about americans doing such things.

 

[Elfkind]

Well, your concern in general is merited, but you've got the players backwards and, for the facts, you're likely going on what the overwhelmingly left-wing media have presented to you. If you are inclined that way already, you probably didn't think to question it.

I realize that media in the USA are very divided and partisan, and I don't believe that one side is good and one side bad. However in the rest of the world, I'm quite convinced that people interpret the politics in the same way that I've tried to explain above, that the Republican Party is not the same as it used to be, and can't fairly be likened to the Democrats anymore, since the latter are more typical politicians, while the former is, as I mentioned, affecting the stability of the democracy when claiming it's fraud if their side loses, and by how Americans one one side of the political spectrum seem to dislike the other side so much that they don't consider it legitimate. Also I think it's strange to be making a political debate about masks and vaccines. News are not just news anymore, it's a lot more opinion hosts, trying to present left/right view as the truth. Since you think that I'm a brainwashed liberal or something, naively just nodding to the news I'm served, I can only guess that you think of the right wing as "the truth" and the good guys and all that? Or can you see the bias on both sides?

 

[Aldebaran]

I am in the same situation as an outsider looking in. It seems to be the inheritance of the Donald Trump administration. Sadly in my lifetime this is the only president that has brought disunity to the American people. I think his legacy will be felt there in the US for some time to come.

If unity is defined as everyone agreeing with the Left, or otherwise be censored/silenced (cancelled), then I suppose you could accurately say that Donald Trump brought disunity. That's a good thing in a way, because those who didn't want to see this country collapsed from within finally had a voice, but the mainstream didn't want that voice heard. Now that Trump has been pretty much silenced as well, the "unity" I described at the beginning is here, and the country has resumed its collapse from within.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If unity is defined as everyone agreeing with the Left, or otherwise be censored/silenced (cancelled), then I suppose you could accurately say that Donald Trump brought disunity. That's a good thing in a way, because those who didn't want to see this country collapsed from within finally had a voice, but the mainstream didn't want that voice heard. Now that Trump has been pretty much silenced as well, the "unity" I described at the beginning is here, and the country has resumed its collapse from within.

A balanced view is always somewhere in the middle.

 

[Elfkind]

I am in the same situation as an outsider looking in. It seems to be the inheritance of the Donald Trump administration. Sadly in my lifetime this is the only president that has brought disunity to the American people. I think his legacy will be felt there in the US for some time to come.

I agree with what you write here, it's just so strange that Americans don't seem to be aware of the situation as I can only guess it's generally understood in the rest of the world, but are very emotionally involved in the politics. I can't possibly guess what about Trump is so inspiring, but he clearly know American people well enough to know exactly what buttons to push to create the instability, that made the Chinese paranoid enough to believe a war was imminent.

 

[Sketcher]

Trumpism is an unhealthy reaction to the unhealth that the American left unapologetically brought in the Obama years, whether through public office or private means. Resentment at one side feeds resentment on the other. Getting rid of just one of them allows the other to flourish, and thereby damage and destroy the good institutions that remain in this country. Failure to understand this is failure to understand the problem.

 

[Albion]

I realize that media in the USA are very divided and partisan, and I don't believe that one side is good and one side bad. However in the rest of the world, I'm quite convinced that people interpret the politics in the same way that I've tried to explain above, that the Republican Party is not the same as it used to be, and can't fairly be likened to the Democrats anymore, since the latter are more typical politicians, while the former is, as I mentioned, affecting the stability of the democracy when claiming it's fraud if their side loses, and by how Americans one one side of the political spectrum seem to dislike the other side so much that they don't consider it legitimate.

On the matter of what people in other parts of the world have been led to believe, I have no reason to doubt you.

That doesn't make the thinking be correct, however, and I see just in your short messages here tell-tale indicators of the partisan lies that the media in the USA have promulgated. For instance, the claim that you worded this way:
"The recent election in California for example, the Republican candidate declared voter fraud before the election was even done."

I'm going to assume that you can agree that voter fraud can and has happened at some time, somewhere. Okay? So what of Larry Elder's claim about some of it having occurred? In California nowadays, votes are cast by mail for weeks prior to election day, much of it on ballots that were not requested by the supposed voter...in transparent envelopes...and voters can change their minds, legally, for days after election day. That provides quite an opportunity for fraud, wouldn't you agree?

For Elder to make mention of some bona fide reports by actual voters prior to election day is nothing special. BUT you made it seem like he was disputing the outcome of the election prior to the votes being counted!

And where did that claim come from--almost word for word? From the media.

Since you think that I'm a brainwashed liberal or something, naively just nodding to the news I'm served,

Whoa.

You identify a party preference in your personal profile ("UK-Liberal-Democrats"), and beyond that I simply suggested that you, living in another country, most likely have gotten most of your information from our best-known American news media, which is almost totally left-wing.

 

[Petros2015]

Does anyone from the USA with a similar observation, only not as worried about it all? Is the states likely to get back the earlier stability?

Checkmate. (the social dilemma)

 

[Kettriken]

Also I'm worried in particular for Christian brothers and sisters, as it seem like the Republican Party have a huge influence on Christians, and to me it seem like the right wing is playing with the stability of the world, and sapping the strength of democracy.

You got it right there, my brother(?)sister in Christ. Many "conservative" Christians have ceded their voice to the political right. This has lead to the de-democratization of our electoral system, even as they cry fraud. The "liberal" or modern church in the United States now have to balance between critiquing our brethren and the danger of becoming too enamored with the leftist political environment, as it seeks to enact many of God's mandates to care for the downtrodden.

 

[The Barbarian]

Trump owns the republican party now. But the results from California show huge defections from suburban republicans to support a liberal democrat rather than a Trump clone.

So the erosion of the republican party continues. Gerrymandering and voter suppression might carry the day for a while, but it's a dying cause.

Maybe a new party, untainted by the racism and corruption Trump installed in the GOP.

 

[Brihaha]

Donald Trump tried to build a wall to prevent an US immigration crisis in 2016.

While the UK and EU enthusiastically embraced open borders.

Trump and many americans understand that allowing large numbers of illegal immigrants into the country, while we have no jobs to give them. Would eventually cause a crisis. Basic logistics which appear to have escaped the majority of europeans who support open borders.

Given that precedent I would be more concerned about europe having poor leadership, making poor choices and supporting the wrong things. Than I would be concerned about americans doing such things.

The only walls trump built is between his voters and their ability to reason! And of course the wall between sane Americans and his unhinged cult.

 

[Brihaha]

Trumpism is an unhealthy reaction to the unhealth that the American left unapologetically brought in the Obama years, whether through public office or private means. Resentment at one side feeds resentment on the other. Getting rid of just one of them allows the other to flourish, and thereby damage and destroy the good institutions that remain in this country. Failure to understand this is failure to understand the problem.

I believe the resentment and distrust in government was fomented when Bush and his administration lied to the world about weapons of mass destruction. Americans began calling Bush and his cronies weapons of mass deception for good reason. Y'all can blame Obama for everything...par for the course in conservative land.

 

[Albion]

The only walls trump built is between his voters and their ability to reason! And of course the wall between sane Americans and his unhinged cult.

Yes, it does sound sort of erudite. A bit too shrill, however, for best effect.

 

[miamited]

that the Republican Party is not the same as it used to be, and can't fairly be likened to the Democrats anymore,

HI elfkind,

I happen to agree with you and still remember that Sen. Lindsey Graham, when Trump first threw his hat in the ring made some rather disparaging remarks concerning the man's character. However, one claim he made, that if Trump were to win the nomination it would be the ruin of the Republican party, does seem to be coming to pass.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Sketcher]

I believe the resentment and distrust in government was fomented when Bush and his administration lied to the world about weapons of mass destruction. Americans began calling Bush and his cronies weapons of mass deception for good reason. Y'all can blame Obama for everything...par for the course in conservative land.

A couple of things about that:

• This was on the left mainly, not the right. The same people who were calling out the Bush Administration for lying about this and that were very often the same people who wanted the government in charge of health care and restricting access to firearms. They never seemed to seriously consider the issue with giving an untrustworthy government more power over people's daily lives. So I'm not convinced that it was distrust in government per se.
• The people who were distrusting the government out of the gate during the Bush years were claiming that 9/11 was in inside job before we even went into Iraq. However, since many of them were leftists who wanted increased government control over the people's lives, their distrust wasn't in government itself, but in the US government.

Now, the WMDs not being in Iraq certainly fed distrust, but not the distrust that energized the Tea Party in 2010 which put the Republicans back in Congress. Much of that was the controversy over how Obamacare was drafted and how many conservative Americans didn't believe their beliefs were getting a seat at the table when it was being hashed out. And of course, there were Obama's foreign policy blunders and support for socially liberal policies at the executive level.

My point is that the left and the right were agitated about different things.

 

[Brihaha]

A couple of things about that:

• This was on the left mainly, not the right. The same people who were calling out the Bush Administration for lying about this and that were very often the same people who wanted the government in charge of health care and restricting access to firearms. They never seemed to seriously consider the issue with giving an untrustworthy government more power over people's daily lives. So I'm not convinced that it was distrust in government per se.
• The people who were distrusting the government out of the gate during the Bush years were claiming that 9/11 was in inside job before we even went into Iraq. However, since many of them were leftists who wanted increased government control over the people's lives, their distrust wasn't in government itself, but in the US government.

Now, the WMDs not being in Iraq certainly fed distrust, but not the distrust that energized the Tea Party in 2010 which put the Republicans back in Congress. Much of that was the controversy over how Obamacare was drafted and how many conservative Americans didn't believe their beliefs were getting a seat at the table when it was being hashed out. And of course, there were Obama's foreign policy blunders and support for socially liberal policies at the executive level.

My point is that the left and the right were agitated about different things.

Maybe the reason conservatives feel they don't have a seat at the table is because they don't hold politicians accountable at the ballot box! Voting for a letter leads to the exploitation of said voters. I reckon this was the time republicans birthed "alternative facts" to feed their voters. Of course the resentment of a black president certainly played a role. I didn't realize it at the time, but I sure did after trump somehow got installed in our white house!

 

[Sketcher]

Maybe the reason conservatives feel they don't have a seat at the table is because they don't hold politicians accountable at the ballot box! Voting for a letter leads to the exploitation of said voters.

The unpopular measures passed in 2009 and 2010 were passed mostly along party lines, which was made possible by the blue wave in 2008. The Democrat representatives and senators did not listen to the opposition from the conservatives in their districts, and the Republicans who were still in DC didn't get their seat at the table. Most of the compromises in Obamacare for instance, were between different groups of Democrats.

I reckon this was the time republicans birthed "alternative facts" to feed their voters.

The Democrats and their mainstream media allies lied by commission or by omission all the time. I'm not going to say that Republican politicians don't, but they don't have as many allies in the mainstream media who will cover for them. Either way, when you don't trust the official narrative because of perceived bias or lying, you're going to do your own research and find "alternative facts." This is not solely a right-wing phenomenon - the 9/11 "truthers" did it too.

Of course the resentment of a black president certainly played a role. I didn't realize it at the time, but I sure did after trump somehow got installed in our white house!

There were probably some that resented a black president because he was black, but there was a lot more resentment over the gushing support of him because he was black. Skin color shouldn't be a factor in support or opposition.