Comic Book Religion: Which is your favorite?

[Gxg (G²)]

Well, the Dark Phoenix Saga carried much more punch and meaning before the retcon, with Jean actually being responsible for the terrible deed of destroying a whole planet and choosing to pay the ultimate price for it.

When the editorial mandate brought her back with a retcon establishing that she was asleep in a cocoon the whole time, while an alien impostor (the Phoenix) had taken her place, the whole tale was considerably cheapened in retrospect.

But - like other aspects of the X-Men series - the concept of the "Phoenix Force" kept evolving, and has now led to some huge stories with far-reaching consequences, such as the "X vs. A"-event and Xavier's murder at the hands of a Phoenix-possessed Cyclops.

That makes sense - although with the Phoenix Force having a significant religious aspect to it, I didn't like the cocoon aspect with Jean Grey and liked other presentations where Jean as Phoenix still had access even after coming out of her cocoon state.

The killing of Xavier by Scott seemed more powerful when considering how Phoenix was a Divine Being worshiped by another culture (The Shiar Empire) - especially with what was known as the Mkrann Crystal (Nexus of Realities)

​

And yet another entity (mutants like Scott and Co.) used the Deity to create a new culture on Earth by a persecuted minority - even at the expense of others who were also persecuted...and others which that Deity was worshipped by ended up seeking to place things back into perspective when it came to abuse. In example, I'm assuming you've heard of Gladiator

\

​

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting


Gladiator (Kallark ), once the Praetor of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard of the Shiar Empire and now the current ruler of it ....a true man of honor.

Gladiator vs. Superman: Battle Epic of the Mugen Multiverse!​

Due to the power his culture realized that Phoenix had and how much it was abused, he decided to come address Scott - and the power of the Deity Phoenix was one of the reason Gladiator came to Earth to try and stop the Phoenix Force (as the Shiar had gone to extremes before - even wiping out all of Jean Grays family line to keep it from coming back) and yet was beaten badly...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

What I find quite intriguing is that Mystique's creators originally intended for her and Destiny to be Nightcrawler's biological parents (with Mystique morphing into male form in order to conceive her).
The comics code authority prohibited the depiction of bisexual/homosexual/unusual couples at the time, though, and so the idea was abandoned in the beginning:

As times grew more liberal, Destiny and Mystique were eventually depicted as a couple - and Rogue became their adoptive child rather than their biological offspring.

Where did you discover that specific facet on Mystique's background?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Where did you discover that specific facet on Mystique's background?

I don't remember where I read this originally, but it's included in the Wikipedia article on Mystique.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't remember where I read this originally, but it's included in the Wikipedia article on Mystique.

That's cool.

The relationship between her and Destiny was always interesting:

• Queer Comic Book Character: Mystique (Oct 25th) | 6'7" and Green

I was able to find elsewhere what it was you were speaking of. As said there:

• Days of Future Past: Mystique Without a Destiny | Geeks OUT!

Created by Chris Claremont in 1981 and first appearing in Uncanny X-Men #141, Destiny was intended, from the beginning, to be an intimate companion for Mystique. At that time, however, probibitions against gay/lesbian depictions in comic books were in place by the Comics Code Authority and the villains’ relationship had to be presented in a very subtle manner, often labeled only as “friends”. The original plans to have Nightcrawler be a biological child to both women (with Mystique shapeshifting into a man for the conception) had to be scrapped.

It wasn’t until long after Irene’s death on Muir Island, at the hands of Legion, that the true nature of her relationship with Mystique was fleshed out and fully awknowledged. At Northstar’s wedding, Rogue would even make it a point to wonder if her childhood would’ve been different had her mothers been allowed to marry.
​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Cyclops kills Xavier? What the heck?

Hoping things made more sense later...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Cyclops kills Xavier? What the heck?

It could have been others who did the job...

 

[gord44]

makes sense. i don't follow comics that much so I was just surprised is all

 

[Gxg (G²)]

makes sense. i don't follow comics that much so I was just surprised is all

Got ya - makes sense!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

So... the Marvel Universe has a whole bunch of interesting things in it, about it, concerning it. one of which is the Infinity Gems. for most of the their existence they are understood by those in the universe to be sources of immense power specific to particular aspects of the universe; time, mind, soul, reality etc.

as it turns out, these gems are actually pieces of the primordial being that existed eternally alone and, being unable to endure the loneliness, killed itself creating the existing universe and the Infinity gems which are the distilled aspects of the primordial being.

that's a fair approximation of normative Hindu thought regarding Mahabrahma and how this universe came into being. i'm not sure that it's my favorite or anything however it plays a hugely important role in the overall world of comics and thus should be mentioned in this sort of thread, imo.

Was it intentional what Marvel did when it came to the Hindu thought being present in the comics or did it just so happen to line?

On the Infinity Gems, the concept itself is interesting and very wide spread (some of it tackled earlier) ....with some of the primordial being aspect you mentioned being seen in what occurred when seeing the creation of Galactus, for example - who once had to fight two of his ancient enemies from the time he was born from what existed previously - Tenebrous and Aegis, two of the Proemial Gods (created to maintain order in the living universe and each of them was given a specific task) who possesses vast cosmic powers..
(from the Annihilation/Marvel Cosmic event series )and much earlier than that when it came to stating that the Earth and its inhabitants existed during the previous universe..:

That said, the Infinity Gems impowering multiple beings of great power is interesting - as it essentially says the playing field was even depending on who had access to power...as was the case when it came to others like Thanos seeking to wield them against other deities that sought to wield them for their own preservation:

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Looks like these are the approximate Marvel equivalents of the Endless in Neil Gaiman's Sandman series (which was incorporated into the DC universe):

The Endless are (clockwise from the left): Death, Destiny, Dream, Destruction, Desire, Delirium, and Despair.

I have talked about Death before, but another interesting and unusual character among these would be Delirium, the youngest among them, who was once Delight.

There's actually another game that somewhat deals with those concepts - except it's from a spiritual perspective as it concerns the concepts of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse and Angels vs. Demons. It's by one of my favorite artists called Joe Madureira - and the story line is very complex...with the game itself taking inspiration from the apocalypse, with the player taking the role of War, one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - and other characters being very instrumental.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Eiq7Uoz_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGsoRaJa9FQ

Darksiders 2 Death vs War - YouTube

No, Not Alone: Three Horsemen of Apocalypse Join the War (Darksiders. Game Ending) - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stXOgxTUCAE


The Angel of Death, for example, is neither good or bad as it concerns other angels/demons as he serves death wherever he's called to since he's one of the Elemental forces God made and a part of God's council - whereas others like the 4 Horsemen are also a part of that and there has been conspiracy by others trying to throw off the balance of order...

​

As said elsewhere, for review:

The story begins with Death hanging out in Heaven's White City. And like all cities, it has it's "back alleys". Death introduces himself via narration:

Death: "I am one of the four. I and my brothers and sister, War, Strife and Fury have helped maintain the balance between Heaven and Hell. Charged by the Charred Council we wait patiently for the Seventh Seal to be broken. After, we will bring about the Apocalypse when the era of man will end in blood and destruction."​

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

... the religion from John Carter of Mars...as it concerns their worship of a Supreme Creator known as Isis (who is a female) - all of it based on Martian religion. But there are other middle-men beings known as Therns who claim to represent Issus and are a threat to Barsoom since they have been misrepresenting things. As another commented more in-depth:

Edgar Rice Burroughs’ Mars is basically like earth – lots of evenly matched civilizations destroying each other for centuries until one gets an advanced technology (gunpowder, etc) and annihilates the other side. But there is also an element of magic, mysticism and religion. The main God (Goddess, actually) on Mars is Isis, and her desires are arbitrated by a supremely advanced, but nevertheless biological, group of beings called the Holy Therns (in other words, the white men… in the novels, John Carter is, like the Therns, the rare white man surrounded by technologically lesser savages).

In both worlds (Earth and Mars) the savages are supremely religious and superstitious, but also dogmatic, closed to change and violent.

The plot revolves around the Thern interfering in Martian history by giving an advanced weapon to a brute leader who will dominate and rule the planet for the years to come. They have chosen him for this role.

This is important – they aren’t interested in ruling themselves; in fact they’ve gone to great lengths to make everybody believe that they don’t really exist. They work very hard at staying invisible, and yet guiding the historical developments. They do this so that they can forge alliances with the leaders they’ve elected, who will let them plunder the planet for valuable resources (exactly as, for example, America’s leaders treat Middle Eastern countries – by supplying weaponry behind the scenes to make sure the person in charge will sell them cheap oil).

The Therns have no interest in helping these races develop or mature; in fact if a smart, benign race were given technology, they would use science to control and understand it – eventually perhaps being able to stand up to the Therns and throwing off the colonialistic plundering. Hence they sabotage the princess’s very close attempt at replicating the technology.​

• John Carter: Book vs Movie | Guardians of Geek

​

Forgot to mention from earlier stories similar to the ones which had religions set up around others taming primitive worlds - with this one being a reflection of Native American Religions...AS one of my favorite characters is known as Turok the Dinosaur Hunter. He's a Native American hero who was sent to a world known as the Lost World....and for more info, Turok refers to any individuals who have attained the title of "Turok" or have been given such name in various media, comics, movies, etc. Turok was a comic series that began in the early 1950s and lasted all the way until the early 80s. ...and as another noted best, "At the time of its inception, back when Life ran their famous World We Live In issue, with sprawling prehistoric murals by paleo-artist Rudolph Zallinger, dinosaurs were all the rage, as were American Indians (now called Native Americans). So this comic combined the tow to great effect."

For more information, one can examine Native Americans in Comic Books: A Critical Study

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R0_BLaTW64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRz5NSBUGZQ

Throughout history, a Native American family lineage has secretly protected Earth from the invasion of races of evolved dinosaurs and other alien life forms which come from a world of constant chaos, The Lost Land of Galyanna.​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm not nearly as fond of DC as I am of Marvel

Heard another note how Marvel is truly amongst the best examples of religious diversity in the world - seeing how many differing religious concepts (personified in individuals of all background, be it scientific or spiritual or magical or other, etc)

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Heard another note how Marvel is truly amongst the best examples of religious diversity in the world - seeing how many differing religious concepts (personified in individuals of all background, be it scientific or spiritual or magical or other, etc)
/QUOTE]

Not to mention etnicities and different cultural backgrounds!

For example, the new Ms. Marvel is a Pakistani American, and they also managed to give her a costume that doesn't oversexualize her:

Don't get me wrong: I LOVE Wonder Woman. But when one artist tried to give her pants, the DC readers freaked, and she quickly reverted back to her bikini briefs.

 

[jacknife]

I remember the Turok games. they were pretty violent to be honest i still remember how the bodies would twitch around. never knew they made a comic book as well.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Regarding oversexualization of female characters: it is kinda disconcerting to see how many artists try to twist the human spine into a "T&A-pretzel", just so that female superheroes can point BOTH their chest and their behind at the reader simultaneously.

Here's a parody of what it'd look like if they did the same to the male characters. The result is... quite disconcerting, really.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Fun fact: John Carter from Mars not only served as one of the sources of inspiration for "Star Wars", but also contributed to the creation of "Superman".

Remember how Superman originally couldn't fly, but instead just possessed the strength to jump REALLY high? Yup, he pulled a John Carter right there.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Remember how Superman originally couldn't fly, but instead just possessed the strength to jump REALLY high?

Hm, I didn't know that.

That's interesting, and it makes sense given the whole "able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" line.

I wonder how he became able to fly. Was there another superhero that could, and that power was added to Superman's repertoire?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I remember the Turok games. they were pretty violent to be honest i still remember how the bodies would twitch around. never knew they made a comic book as well.

I actually highly enjoyed the game back in the day -as I really enjoy games with high amounts of violence and a big sense of purpose.

And thankfully, the games didn't center on attacking people so much as on creatures harming people in general (as there were a couple of human enemies).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Z3JGim7m8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlDjONLfZAQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaENOXb-s28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMhDGvoH4wE

Of course, the comic was a bit different than the game on certain levels. And there have been more intense comics than Turok if one wishes to talk on violence. I am reminded of one of the series I highly enjoyed growing up - known as Conan the Barbarian....and to be clear, the film will NEVER come as close to being excellent as the first one with Arnold from the 80s

BEST EPIC FANTASY MUSIC EVER - Complete BSO, "Conan The Barbarian" - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVx4LafsvSU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huTKdSZMRPg

The Riddle of Steel From Conan - YouTube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNV86VFd4Zw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gko_q6rrqOo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFoNd6tvP4I

Basil Poledouris - Funeral Pyre Scene - Valeria's Death - YouTube
Nonetheless, The comic of which the films were based on will always be amazing....

Additionally, The mythology of Conan is interesting and was what caught my attention when I came across it - be it the concept of Crom or gods of wind/fire and other aspects...a lot of aminism there - more in The Filmgoer's Guide to Conan the Barbarian (1982): Cimmerian Mythology and What Conan The Barbarian Reveals About The Origins Of Strength

And as another wisely noted:

His [Conan’s] gods were simple and understandable; Crom was their chief, and he lived on a great mountain, whence he sent forth dooms and death. It was useless to call on Crom, because he was a gloomy, savage god, and he hated weaklings. But he gave a man courage at birth, and the will and might to kill his enemies, which, in the Cimmerian’s mind, was all any god should be expected to do.

(The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, “The Tower of the Elephant” by Robert E. Howard, pages 64-65).

I enjoy Howard’s Conan the Barbarian stories, and usually rue the fact that Howard committed suicide at age 30. He lived from 1906 to 1936 A.D., and that’s a life too short. I’ve never seen any evidence of Christianity in his writings, and all lives whether they be 30 years or 80 years are far too short compared to an eternity in Christ.

The reason I enjoy Howard’s Conan stories is because there is something elemental to human nature in them, or in Conan. He believes in the gods, but is wise enough to reject the mysteries and secret powers of complex man-made religions and philosophies; instinctively knowing that the physically weak priests and philosophers use those “formulas and rituals” to attain power, just as he would use his sword to attain power. A complex man-made religion is simply a tool of the hierocracy. A simple religion is better for Conan, and yet, who can understand Crom? Any god that could be fully understood by any man would be no god at all. Truth and wonder cannot be separated.

In his fallen nature, which is barbarism, man can grope toward the real God of the Law: a God of “dooms and death” who hates sinners and weaklings. That would all be true. But thankfully someone came to add to the truth, to be truth himself: Jesus Christ. Only through the revelation of Jesus Christ can we see the mercy of God. He is the truth, both simple and complex, both fully man and fully God. Only the Holy Spirit can give us the sight to see his cross as not just more “dooms and death,” but mercy and lif​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBMY3VV5AMA

​

​

[/CENTER]

 

[Booko]

By Crom!

You actually like that awful movie from the 80s?

Sorry I read the pulp stories and then the comix.

Dino de Laurentis ruins every fan thing he touches, and his daughter is worse.

'Nuff said

 

[Gxg (G²)]

By Crom!

You actually like that awful movie from the 80s?

Sorry I read the pulp stories and then the comix.

Dino de Laurentis ruins every fan thing he touches, and his daughter is worse.

'Nuff said

By Crom! Yes, I did like the movie and I really didn't think it was that bad It was very epic of a film, even though some things could be done better.