Born Again?

[Guojing]

Why? It's no contradiction. I don't understand

Through the fall of Israel, we are saved today.

You consider yourself grafted to a nation that has fallen?

 

[soldier of light]

You consider yourself grafted to a nation that has fallen?

No. Israel is not the tree. They're just branches like us. Jesus is the tree.

 

[Guojing]

No. Israel is not the tree. They're just branches like us. Jesus is the tree.

Like I said, you have to reconcile that with the clear statement by Paul in Romans 11:11.

If you are happy with that reasoning, that is your choice.

 

[soldier of light]

Like I said, you have to reconcile that with the clear statement by Paul in Romans 11:11.

If you are happy with that reasoning, that is your choice.

There is no contradiction. Your argument so far makes no sense. Paul said that Israel was broken off and we were grafted in. If they were broken off then they can't be the tree, right?

 

[Guojing]

There is no contradiction. Your argument so far makes no sense. Paul said that Israel was broken off and we were grafted in. If they were broken off then they can't be the tree, right?

No one said anything about any tree.

I am addressing your point "We are grafted into Israel" and using Romans 11:11 to say otherwise.

 

[soldier of light]

No one said anything about any tree.

I am addressing your point "We are grafted into Israel" and using Romans 11:11 to say otherwise.

Paul talked about the tree.

 

[Guojing]

Paul talked about the tree.

Why don't you use the exact verse and we will see whether Paul said "we are grafted into Israel"?

If you are talking about THAT verse, its the typical rush reading and mix up grafted among/with and grafted into.

 

[RandyPNW]

Yes, only Israel can be born again.

Currently they have fallen, but once Jesus return for them, the entire nation at that point of time will be "born again" (Romans 11:25-27).

So Gojing, Are you now speaking for Soldier, or for yourself? Is this what *you* believe? If so, have you considered that the interntional Church is never really called "Israel?"

 

[soldier of light]

Why don't you use the exact verse and we will see whether Paul said "we are grafted into Israel"?

If you are talking about THAT verse, its the typical rush reading and mix up grafted among/with and grafted into.

Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. Why wouldn't be be the tree as well? But maybe you're right. I don't much care to be honest. I'm happy to follow the Lord.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. Why wouldn't be be the tree as well? But maybe you're right. I don't much care to be honest. I'm happy to follow the Lord.

So what has Israel got to do with anything you have said above?

 

[Guojing]

So Gojing, Are you now speaking for Soldier, or for yourself? Is this what *you* believe? If so, have you considered that the interntional Church is never really called "Israel?"

I am explaining Dan's view to you.

The other guy just jumped in with his own points

 

[soldier of light]

So what has Israel got to do with anything you have said above?

I dunno. Have a good day in the Lord

 

[Dan Perez]

Where does God's chastening fit into this?

Read 1 Cor 5:1 - 5 and see !!

dan p

 

[soldier of light]

Read 1 Cor 5:1 - 5 and see !!

dan p

That's Paul's chastening

 

[Dan Perez]

No. Israel is not the tree. They're just branches like us. Jesus is the tree.

And where the verse that the BODY of Christ are called BRANCHES ??

dan p

 

[soldier of light]

And where the verse that the BODY of Christ are called BRANCHES ??

dan p

It says we can be broken off too. That means we are branches

 

[soldier of light]

And where the verse that the BODY of Christ are called BRANCHES ??

dan p

Romans 11:18-21
New King James Version
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

 

[ARBITER01]

Evangelicals teach a momentous change from sinner to saint by a formulation called being "Born Again." And this implies for some an immediate change, and for others, a progressive change. In reality I think it is both.

I do think there is an immediate Born Again change when we begin to acknowledge that Christ is our substitute, when we put that reality into motion by accepting God's Word in our lives that enables us to live according to that directive. Just like when our employer tells us to do something he provides the means for us to do it, we can do God's word when He gives us the command to do it.

Even more, when God tells us to completely relinquish final say in our lives, and make God our primary source of authority, we are able to follow that directive and thereby obtain the spiritual means to comply. We become "Born Again."

Some Christians try to dismiss the confusion over formulations of Salvation on the premise that we begin as sinners and end as sinners even after we come under Grace. We are not instantly transformed into saints--we simply become God's People by covenant in the act of acknowledging it and following that directive.

A formula for becoming "Born Again" can become an "oversimplification" of the Salvation formula. We go from sinner to saint only in the sense that 1) we come under covenant with God, 2) we come under grace, and 3) we live by our substitute and not by our carnal being. As such, we are Born Again but not living in righteousness except on the basis of Grace until we obtain glorification.

Being born again is the regenerated life, where our human spirit is renewed into His life (Jesus), and we are place back into spiritual relationship with the GODHEAD. This has a direct spiritual answer/experience from heaven.

It is not a changing of the mind.

 

[Dan Perez]

It says we can be broken off too. That means we are branches

Will please give a verse that BODY OF CHRIST are BRANCHES , because all that are in the BODY OF CHRIST are Christ

EYES , HIS FEET SENSE OF SMELLING and his EYES we see in 1 Cor 12:12-17

and we are not VINES nor are we BRANCHES !!

dan p

 

[soldier of light]

Will please give a verse that BODY OF CHRIST are BRANCHES , because all that are in the BODY OF CHRIST are Christ

EYES , HIS FEET SENSE OF SMELLING and his EYES we see in 1 Cor 12:12-17

and we are not VINES nor are we BRANCHES !!

dan p

Paul said that Gentiles are wild branches grafted into a tree. The scripture seems clear. I dont understand the confusion