Atheists are Right. Why Dispute the Truth?

[Johan2222]

I have read through many of the responses on this thread and there is very little that can be said to many of you.

Luke 7:31-32 KJV
And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? [32] They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

You lean into your own understanding and talk of walking in the Spirit rather than adhering to ethics or morality.

How utterly ridiculous.

How can the Spirit dwell in those who do not deny themselves by walking in ethical paths and high moral values.

Foolishness abounds here because you have forgotten the route that leads to the Spirit being granted to man.

Proverbs 22:6 KJV
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 22:15 KJV
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

You have been raised in ease and corrupted by the deceitfulness of riches.

Hebrews 12:8-11 KJV
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. [9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. [11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Isaiah 29:13-14 KJV
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: [14] Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

The day is at hand.

James 4:7-10,17 KJV
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. [17] Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

But I know I shall not be received by the multitude of double minded who are wise to teach folly among you and who you receive gladly.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

That time has come.

 

[Laodicean60]

I believe I agree with it all, except want to elaborate more with your last statement. We need to realize we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but principalities, etc (something I have to remind myself) and we need to put on the full armor of God.

I interpret Paul saying flesh and blood as all created by God and here we are today still at war with neighbors. Rulers authorities and powers in the dark world have one common denominator the love for money. We should be focused on the powers not each other, I guess we are tribal by nature. The love of money; sex changes on children, corporations and low wages, food corporations poisoning us, healthcare cabal, and my government with wasteful spending.

 

[Jo555]

I interpret Paul saying flesh and blood as all created by God and here we are today still at war with neighbors. Rulers authorities and powers in the dark world have one common denominator the love for money. We should be focused on the powers not each other, I guess we are tribal by nature. The love of money; sex changes on children, corporations and low wages, food corporations poisoning us, healthcare cabal, and my government with wasteful spending.

Oh wretched man that I am, or gal in this case.

I hear you loud and clear.

 

[Jo555]

I have read through many of the responses on this thread and there is very little that can be said to any of you.

Luke 7:31-32 KJV
And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? [32] They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

You lean into your own understanding and talk of walking in the Spirit rather than adhering to ethics or morality.

How utterly ridiculous.

How can the Spirit dwell in those who do not deny themselves by walking in ethical paths and high moral values.

Foolishness abounds here because you have forgotten the route that leads to the Spirit being granted to man.

Proverbs 22:6 KJV
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 22:15 KJV
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

You have been raised in ease and corrupted by the deceitfulness of riches.

Hebrews 12:8-11 KJV
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. [9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. [11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Isaiah 29:13-14 KJV
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: [14] Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

The day is at hand.

James 4:7-10,17 KJV
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. [17] Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

But I know I shall not be received by the multitude of double minded who are wise to teach folly among you and who you receive gladly.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

That time has come.

Thank you for sharing. The scriptures clearly tell us that the way to life in the Spirit is to be born anew through Christ. John 3, and elsewhere.

Romans 1, 2, and 3 cover how morality does not have the power to save us, and we've all fallen short of the glory of God.

I will say, that i grew up back in the day where a strong hand was considered fine regarding discipline, but i can count the times I was spanked with one hand, with the majority of fingers to spare. All we needed was "the eye" and we knew they meant serious business.

We grew up and the minority had a more challenging time with avoiding the evils of this present age, but it was momma that taught us of God and we experienced his love, presence, and power in our lives, some more than others, and the prodigals have seen the foolishness of their ways.

I personally do not look down on the journey some had to take to find their way home again because I had such an easy time of it in that regard, I know it was a more protective hand on my life. I can be quite a sensitive gal, especially back then, as He designed me and it would have been a much more difficult path for me to go through at that time.

 

[Jo555]

No path is wasted with the Lord though. One went on to get his masters, possibly phd too, unsure, and works for the state of NY counseling others that are walking the path he did. Actually, he's gone on to be with the Lord now, the eldest of us, and the other is still on that path with the Lord.

 

[Jo555]

Just thought of another example that can often be used as a moral code to keep Christians in an unhealthy environment, like a certain church they may be getting sick in.

The scripture regarding not forsaking the assembly of the brethren.

Can say more on that, but will have to return.

 

[Johan2222]

Thank you for sharing. The scriptures clearly tell us that the way to life in the Spirit is to be born anew through Christ. John 3, and elsewhere.

Romans 1, 2, and 3 cover how morality does not have the power to save us, and we've all fallen short of the glory of God.

I will say, that i grew up back in the day where a strong hand was considered fine regarding discipline, but i can count the times I was spanked with one hand, with the majority of fingers to spare. All we needed was "the eye" and we knew they meant serious business.

We grew up and the minority had a more challenging time with avoiding the evils of this present age, but it was momma that taught us of God and we experienced his love, presence, and power in our lives, some more than others, and the prodigals have seen the foolishness of their ways.

I personally do not look down on the journey some had to take to find their way home again because I had such an easy time of it in that regard, I know it was a more protective hand on my life. I can be quite a sensitive gal, especially back then, as He designed me and it would have been a much more difficult path for me to go through at that time.

A very proud response from someone who thinks that they are wise to teach.

Nobody disagreed with your opening paragraph. Why do you start with it.?

The Scriptures teach many things clearly.

They teach that those who seek to justify themselves before men are not of God.

Why do you seek to justify yourself before men when these things of judging others were not discussed, saying that you do not look down on people who have had different journeys?

Is it not because you seek to imply your righteousness and that I do judge them?

Certainly, the issue of judgement was not in your original thread and not in my response and the fact that you have raised it as your first point of contention or an issue to be discussed is noted.

Luke 16:15 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;

Is there any point in saying that you follow righteousness? Is a man justified by his claims. Do you not do these things because you have no other recourse to defend yourself against the Scriptures which condemn you?

Matthew 12:37 KJV
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

If you cannot stick to the subject and defend yourself using the scriptures, changing the subject is not going to do anything for you but condemn you.

Your answer does nothing to address the points I have made, but that is because you have not received the chastening that would have legitimised you, and that even by your own admittance.

If you wish to be saved, you will concede that you are not wise to teach anything and repent of this folly that you follow, but I can see that through easy living and the deceitfulness of riches, your pride has blinded your eyes to the truth and the requirements of the hard road that few find.

If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that the scripture teaches clearly that you should not be teaching in this forum anyway but you have hardened your heart to the truth and that is why you walk on very unstable ground teaching error.

 

[Jo555]

A very proud response from someone who thinks that they are wise to teach.

Nobody disagreed with your opening paragraph. Why do you start with it.?

The Scriptures teach many things clearly.

They teach that those who seek to justify themselves before men are not of God.

Why do you seek to justify yourself before men when these things of judging others were not discussed, saying that you do not look down on people who have had different journeys?

Is it not because you seek to imply your righteousness and that I do judge them?

Certainly, the issue of judgement was not in your original thread and not in my response and the fact that you have raised it as your first point of contention or an issue to be discussed is noted.

Luke 16:15 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;

Is there any point in saying that you follow righteousness? Is a man justified by his claims. Do you not do these things because you have no other recourse to defend yourself against the Scriptures which condemn you?

Matthew 12:37 KJV
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

If you cannot stick to the subject and defend yourself using the scriptures, changing the subject is not going to do anything for you but condemn you.

Your answer does nothing to address the points I have made, but that is because you have not received the chastening that would have legitimised you, and that even by your own admittance.

If you wish to be saved, you will concede that you are not wise to teach anything and repent of this folly that you follow, but I can see that through easy living and the deceitfulness of riches, your pride has blinded your eyes to the truth and the requirements of the hard road that few find.

If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that the scripture teaches clearly that you should not be teaching in this forum anyway but you have hardened your heart to the truth and that is why you walk on very unstable ground teaching error.

Ok, can't say for sure, but I believe this is where Jesus would say, first cast the beam out of your own eye, then you will be able to help your breyhren, sister in this instance, with hers

A very proud response from someone who thinks that they are wise to teach.

Nobody disagreed with your opening paragraph. Why do you start with it.?

The Scriptures teach many things clearly.

They teach that those who seek to justify themselves before men are not of God.

Why do you seek to justify yourself before men when these things of judging others were not discussed, saying that you do not look down on people who have had different journeys?

Is it not because you seek to imply your righteousness and that I do judge them?

Certainly, the issue of judgement was not in your original thread and not in my response and the fact that you have raised it as your first point of contention or an issue to be discussed is noted.

Luke 16:15 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;

Is there any point in saying that you follow righteousness? Is a man justified by his claims. Do you not do these things because you have no other recourse to defend yourself against the Scriptures which condemn you?

Matthew 12:37 KJV
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

If you cannot stick to the subject and defend yourself using the scriptures, changing the subject is not going to do anything for you but condemn you.

Your answer does nothing to address the points I have made, but that is because you have not received the chastening that would have legitimised you, and that even by your own admittance.

If you wish to be saved, you will concede that you are not wise to teach anything and repent of this folly that you follow, but I can see that through easy living and the deceitfulness of riches, your pride has blinded your eyes to the truth and the requirements of the hard road that few find.

If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that the scripture teaches clearly that you should not be teaching in this forum anyway but you have hardened your heart to the truth and that is why you walk on very unstable ground teaching error.

Ok. Thank you for your input. I believe this would be where Jesus would say first cast the beam out of yours.

 

[Jo555]

Here is a great one on that. One of the most profound teachings from a human expounding on scripture that I've ever read. I believe he is right on.

If it helps you open your heart, I didn't write it. You'll have to go to the ebook link and it will take you straight to this short and profound chapter

God bless you. Hope we can become friends one day.

The Mote and Beam

One of the most profound chapters i have read in Christian literature. It is very much worth the read. "The Mote and the Beam" Excerpt from "The Calvary Road" by Roy Hession (Click on book title for the insightful chapter, and ebook) I...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Johan2222]

Ok, can't say for sure, but I believe this is where Jesus would say, first cast the beam out of your own eye, then you will be able to help your breyhren, sister in this instance, with hers
Ok. Thank you for your input. I believe this would be where Jesus would say first cast the beam out of yours.

No, I understand, I see your inability to state anything certainly because that is the way with those who harden their hearts against the truth.

What you believe does not change the truth because Jesus was very clear about sin and when you disobey the Word in public, you not only sin against God but against all the church and stumble unbelievers.

The only way Jesus could do what you say is to deny his word for his word is clear.

Luke 17:3-4 ASV
Take heed to yourselves: if thy brother sin, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. [4] And if he sin against thee seven times in the day, and seven times turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Contrary to your errant beliefs, Jesus is not going to contradict his word.

Do you know what your end shall be when you do not repent for your sin?

 

[Jo555]

No, I understand, I see your inability to state anything certainly because that is the way with those who harden their hearts against the truth.

What you believe does not change the truth because Jesus was very clear about sin and when you disobey the Word in public, you not only sin against God but against all the church and stumble unbelievers.

The only way Jesus could do what you say is to deny his word for his word is clear.

Luke 17:3-4 ASV
Take heed to yourselves: if thy brother sin, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. [4] And if he sin against thee seven times in the day, and seven times turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Contrary to your errant beliefs, Jesus is not going to contradict his word.

Do you know what your end shall be when you do not repent for your sin?

I appreciate your concern for my soul. I feel very secure in my salvation and the Lord's love for me.

Can't boast about that. He did it. No one can take that from me, but thank you for your concern.

 

[Johan2222]

I appreciate your concern for my soul. I feel very secure in my salvation and the Lord's love for me.

Can't boast about that. He did it. No one can take that from me, but thank you for your concern.

Proverbs 1:32 KJV
For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

 

[Jo555]

I appreciate your concern for my soul. I feel very secure in my salvation and the Lord's love for me.

Can't boast about that. He did it. No one can take that from me, but thank you for your concern.

Johan, love you brother, or is it sister? If I have done anything to offend you do let me know so we can talk about it. Otherwise, I need to move forward with what the Lord has laid on my heart.

Not that I know it all and have it all right, but I feel good with where I am at. Not complacent, but good.

We all should first and foremost listen to Him in our hearts, even if He may use another to start that process.

God is not confirming your words to me. I don't know God the way you do. He is so much more loving, not counting my sins against me.

And no, that is not a license to sin, or not acknowledging his loving discipline, but it is the love and goodness of God that keeps me from desiring sin, not the fear of punishment. I don't live in the old, but in the new.

I'll speak as a fool now, as Paul would say regarding his boasting. I gave up career, money, material possessions (although i do still have my house, but would give that up to if need be), concern and thoughts about myself. My tears and great sorrow has been for others sufferings, so much so that I have wished myself eternal hell if it would help them, but Christ did that already, went through and to hell for us, and has shown Himself so loving and faithful.

For 10 years I have been cleaning poop and urine daily, amongst other things, and I gave up a great career and now uber when i can so I am not a burden to anyone. Ubering is the only thing i can do that gives me the flexibility in schedule to make a run, then return home to continue caregiving, but there is no greater honor for me, and I've gained so much more than the treasures on Earth.

And I do it all for love. It has nothing to do with any goodness of my own, but deep love for others. And, there is a special bonding with God and others with that. A beautiful thing compared to no other.

I don't give lip service to life in Christ. My life is a testimony of it, driven by love, not to gain brownie points with God.

No more shall I indulge you. If I have offended you personally in some way, let me know so we can discuss it. Otherwise, don't bother me with this anymore for my life is a living sacrifice and a testimony to life in Christ.

Not some mental choice, but driven by the love of God alive in my heart.

I'm not going to be derailed from this message as it is too important, and He laid it on my heart.

Love in Christ,
Joanne (Jo)

 

[Jo555]

Good time for another intermission, for me. If you don't know this one, you are going to love it.