are there any Oneness Pentecostal Calvinists out there?

[oldWorshipper]

I just realized that in all my journey, I've seen many different denominations, and respectfully tried to keep mental notes to myself on why "these people" feel separate from "those people." Not at all with any judgement to say that I believe any of them to be right or wrong. Of course, I have my beliefs, just.. in this thread I'm not at all trying to start a debate.

I'm just noticing that I don't think I've come across a group that is both Calvinistic and also Oneness Pentecostal. Please tell me, if you know of a group with all the following characteristics:

1) believes in Calvinistic predestination (no human free will, all God's Sovereignty)

2) believes in Jesus Name baptism (non trinitarian formula)

3) believes that the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost is signified by the person speaking in tongues.

 

[Hammster]

As a Reformed believer, I cannot see how a Calvinist could be Oneness. One of the “go to” passages in Reformed Theology is John 6. Oneness would complete destroy it’s meaning.

 

[Dave L]

I just realized that in all my journey, I've seen many different denominations, and respectfully tried to keep mental notes to myself on why "these people" feel separate from "those people." Not at all with any judgement to say that I believe any of them to be right or wrong. Of course, I have my beliefs, just.. in this thread I'm not at all trying to start a debate.

I'm just noticing that I don't think I've come across a group that is both Calvinistic and also Oneness Pentecostal. Please tell me, if you know of a group with all the following characteristics:

1) believes in Calvinistic predestination (no human free will, all God's Sovereignty)

2) believes in Jesus Name baptism (non trinitarian formula)

3) believes that the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost is signified by the person speaking in tongues.

I believe point 1

I believe point 2, having been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. But knowing Jesus Christ is the personal name of the triune God.

I believe point 3 except Scripture replaced tongues. So every time we quote scripture, we are speaking in the original tongues and prophecy that became the NT scriptures.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I believe point 2, having been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Yes, but you don't follow Oneness doctrine, which was the intent of that point. I think you knew that.

I believe point 3 except Scripture replaced tongues. So every time we quote scripture, we are speaking in the original tongues and prophecy that became the NT scriptures.

If you're going to try to be tricky and play word games, then you need to be more subtle about it. Otherwise, it makes you look like you're trying to deceive. You do not, in fact, believe in tongues as the initial evidence, as the OP suggested.

I'm just noticing that I don't think I've come across a group that is both Calvinistic and also Oneness Pentecostal.

I don't think I've encountered a Pentecostal Calvinist church. It would probably be a closer match to what I believe, but I wouldn't necessarily attend. If you add Oneness doctrine to that, then you've got an impossible combination.

Oneness doctrine is regarded as a controversial Christian belief, and discussion about it is usually restricted to the Controversial Theology section.

 

[oldWorshipper]

As a Reformed believer, I cannot see how a Calvinist could be Oneness. One of the “go to” passages in Reformed Theology is John 6. Oneness would complete destroy it’s meaning.

Thanks for the response. I'm not really sure how a Oneness interpretation of that passage is more problematic for the Calvinist point of view than a Trinitarian interpretation is. I suppose that just reveals my lack of knowledge about any of the three views, maybe all three

 

[Dave L]

Yes, but you don't follow Oneness doctrine, which was the intent of that point. I think you knew that.



If you're going to try to be tricky and play word games, then you need to be more subtle about it. Otherwise, it makes you look like you're trying to deceive. You do not, in fact, believe in tongues as the initial evidence, as the OP suggested.



I don't think I've encountered a Pentecostal Calvinist church. It would probably be a closer match to what I believe, but I wouldn't necessarily attend. If you add Oneness doctrine to that, then you've got an impossible combination.

Oneness doctrine is regarded as a controversial Christian belief, and discussion about it is usually restricted to the Controversial Theology section.

I'm only showing that with a few corrections, oneness is compatible with Calvinism.

 

[oldWorshipper]

Oneness doctrine is regarded as a controversial Christian belief, and discussion about it is usually restricted to the Controversial Theology section.

Wow. Oneness is more controversial than Predestination? Shocking. At any rate, I wasn't really trying to discuss the doctrine. Just asking if anyone knew of a church body that holds both to that and a couple of other things. There are enough threads in the the forums (wherever) to discuss any of the views themselves.

 

[bcbsr]

I just realized that in all my journey, I've seen many different denominations, and respectfully tried to keep mental notes to myself on why "these people" feel separate from "those people." Not at all with any judgement to say that I believe any of them to be right or wrong. Of course, I have my beliefs, just.. in this thread I'm not at all trying to start a debate.

I'm just noticing that I don't think I've come across a group that is both Calvinistic and also Oneness Pentecostal. Please tell me, if you know of a group with all the following characteristics:

1) believes in Calvinistic predestination (no human free will, all God's Sovereignty)

2) believes in Jesus Name baptism (non trinitarian formula)

3) believes that the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost is signified by the person speaking in tongues.

Pentecostals who believe in Eternal Security and the Perseverance of the Saints! Didn't know they existed. You might check them on that point. Because they're likely just partial Calvinists.

 

[redleghunter]

I just realized that in all my journey, I've seen many different denominations, and respectfully tried to keep mental notes to myself on why "these people" feel separate from "those people." Not at all with any judgement to say that I believe any of them to be right or wrong. Of course, I have my beliefs, just.. in this thread I'm not at all trying to start a debate.

I'm just noticing that I don't think I've come across a group that is both Calvinistic and also Oneness Pentecostal. Please tell me, if you know of a group with all the following characteristics:

1) believes in Calvinistic predestination (no human free will, all God's Sovereignty)

2) believes in Jesus Name baptism (non trinitarian formula)

3) believes that the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost is signified by the person speaking in tongues.

Reformed theology is Trinitarian.

 

[redleghunter]

Wow. Oneness is more controversial than Predestination? Shocking. At any rate, I wasn't really trying to discuss the doctrine. Just asking if anyone knew of a church body that holds both to that and a couple of other things. There are enough threads in the the forums (wherever) to discuss any of the views themselves.

Considering God predestined is not only a Biblical but historic church doctrine shocked be not.

 

[SovereignOne]

I just realized that in all my journey, I've seen many different denominations, and respectfully tried to keep mental notes to myself on why "these people" feel separate from "those people." Not at all with any judgement to say that I believe any of them to be right or wrong. Of course, I have my beliefs, just.. in this thread I'm not at all trying to start a debate.

I'm just noticing that I don't think I've come across a group that is both Calvinistic and also Oneness Pentecostal. Please tell me, if you know of a group with all the following characteristics:

1) believes in Calvinistic predestination (no human free will, all God's Sovereignty)

2) believes in Jesus Name baptism (non trinitarian formula)

3) believes that the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost is signified by the person speaking in tongues.

I would like to know if there's a group of those beliefs, please!

 

[Albion]

I would like to know if there's a group of those beliefs, please!

It seems unlikely. There's the United Pentecostal Church International which does meets objective #2 (Jesus-only Baptismal formula), but it's non-Trinitarian as well. Also, there are the Church of God of Prophesy and the Open Bible Standard Churches.

I strongly feel that you will have to accept something less than complete agreement on all three of the points at once, no matter which church you turn to, but if you do a very careful search, you might find one that comes close enough to satisfy.

 

[SovereignOne]

It seems unlikely. There's the United Pentecostal Church International which does meets objective #2 (Jesus-only Baptismal formula), but it's non-Trinitarian as well. Also, there are the Church of God of Prophesy and the Open Bible Standard Churches.

I strongly feel that you will have to accept something less than complete agreement on all three of the points at once, no matter which church you turn to, but if you do a very careful search, you might find one that comes close enough to satisfy.

How/where to do such a very careful search, please?

 

[Albion]

How/where to do such a very careful search, please?

1. For one thing, it would need to be a church that's near where you live so you can attend services, etc. Otherwise, your connection would be just academic.

2. You can search out congregations in your area in the phone books and online. You may very well strike out right there. But it looks like you need to pay particular attention to the Pentecostal churches.

3. Also, most libraries have books in the religion section that list different denominations and give a thumbnail sketch of what they believe.

I personally doubt that any of this will settle the matter because the combination of things you want in a church is unusual, but you never can tell!

4. if you come up with a couple of promising leads, phone them and talk to them, telling them what you are looking for.

5. If you have some "possibles" after all of that, visit those churches when they are conducting worship services.

 

[Dave L]

I just realized that in all my journey, I've seen many different denominations, and respectfully tried to keep mental notes to myself on why "these people" feel separate from "those people." Not at all with any judgement to say that I believe any of them to be right or wrong. Of course, I have my beliefs, just.. in this thread I'm not at all trying to start a debate.

I'm just noticing that I don't think I've come across a group that is both Calvinistic and also Oneness Pentecostal. Please tell me, if you know of a group with all the following characteristics:

1) believes in Calvinistic predestination (no human free will, all God's Sovereignty)

2) believes in Jesus Name baptism (non trinitarian formula)

3) believes that the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost is signified by the person speaking in tongues.

I'm a Calvinist "baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ" properly understood in the light of the Trinity doctrine. Jesus Christ is the name of the triune God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jesus Christ is the name of the triune God.

No. Jesus Christ is the name of the Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dave L]

No. Jesus Christ is the name of the Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son.

-CryptoLutheran

You got it wrong. Jesus told the Apostles to baptize believers, not babies, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They did this in Acts baptizing believers in the Name of Jesus Christ.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You got it wrong. Jesus told the Apostles to baptize believers, not babies, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They did this in Acts baptizing believers in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Who was Gabriel talking about when he said, "You shall call His name Jesus"?

What does Jesus mean when He says that "the Christ must suffer, and on the third day rise again"?

Did Joseph name the Father "Jesus"? No. Did the Holy Spirit suffer and on the third day rise again? No.

No, only the Son was named Jesus, only the Son suffered and rose on the third day.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dave L]

Who was Gabriel talking about when he said, "You shall call His name Jesus"?

What does Jesus mean when He says that "the Christ must suffer, and on the third day rise again"?

Did Joseph name the Father "Jesus"? Did the Holy Spirit suffer and on the third day rise again? No.

No, only the Son was named Jesus, only the Son suffered and rose on the third day.

-CryptoLutheran

The trinity was in Christ the man who spoke God's word through the second person of the Son..

“Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” Jude 5 (ESV)

 

[ViaCrucis]

The trinity was in Christ the man who spoke God's word through the second person of the Son..

“Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” Jude 5 (ESV)

Okay, so your Christology is messed up too it would seem.

Christ, the man, is also Christ who is God the Son from all eternity.

The Father is in the Son, not just in the Son incarnate, but in the Son from all eternity, even as the Son is in the Father from all eternity. Likewise the Holy Spirit in the Father, in the Son; and the Father and Son in the Spirit. This is the doctrine of the Perichoresis of the Trinity.

Only the Son became flesh.
Only the Son was given the name Jesus.
Only the Son was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
Only the Son rose on the third day.
Only the Son ascended into heaven.
Only the Son sits and reigns at the right hand of the Father.
Only the Son is coming again to judge the living and the dead.

Jude 5 means what it says, that the Son--Jesus--is YHWH, the God of Israel. Because Israel's God is the Holy Trinity.

The Father is YWHW.
The Son is YHWH.
The Holy Spirit is YHWH.

Because the Father is God.
The Son is God.
And the Holy Spirit is God.

The Father is Almighty.
The Son is Almighty.
The Holy Spirit is Almighty.

The Father is Eternal.
The Son is Eternal.
The Holy Spirit is Eternal.

Three Divine Persons.
One God.
Holy Trinity.

-CryptoLutheran